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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Legacy99
    How do you know that it is not layering?


    Your reply is rather odd and while the burden of evidence is on you I will attempt to explain why it doesn`t.



    Wax doesn`t cross link, like many polymer sealants do (and paint), therefore it is, in a nutshell, an oily layer resting on the surface. If you add another layer of wax the solvents present in that wax will replace, not build up or layer, the first application.



    Solvents are needed to soften up the wax and make it pliable therefore the thinking is that those same solvents will remove the previous wax layer.



    Now if you wish to hold to the thinking that they can layer I must then ask how can you possibly measure that? There is no way to do so. It would seem that the science/chemistry of this all would disagree with the possibility of waxes being layered.



    Anthony
    "The Art & Science of Auto Detail"

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by wfedwar
    Not true at all. You`ve obviously never used the stuff. The two layers are totally different.


    Wrong! Clear coat is a non-pigment paint.



    meguiars.com: FAQ - What is clear coat paint?
    BespokeCarDetailing and AeroCleanse, LLC

  3. #33

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    One thing I`ve always wondered is , since clear coat is just a non pigmented paint layer, why is it you don`t see clear transfer to your pads after polishing? Or is it really transferring and you don`t notice because it`s clear? I would have thought it would have showed up as some sort of residue.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by PursuitSE
    To me, a waxed car is lot easier to wash and dry.


    :up



    Yup, this is exactly why I put sealants on my vehicles. That and the perceived notion that a sealant/wax will give a sacrificial layer to bird bombs, industrial fall out and bug etchings when dealt w/ promptly.
    [quote name=`ptaylor_9849`] Black is not a color, it`s a part time job. Patrick[/QUOTE]

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by duke4ever
    One thing I`ve always wondered is , since clear coat is just a non pigmented paint layer, why is it you don`t see clear transfer to your pads after polishing? Or is it really transferring and you don`t notice because it`s clear? I would have thought it would have showed up as some sort of residue.


    It does transfer. After all you are removing material. It`s just clear so you don`t see it.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Orosco
    That`s great that you have found products that you like but how is it that you know you are getting these products to in fact layer one on another?



    Please understand that I am not seeking to argue here but rather wanting to know how you determine these are layering.



    Thanks,

    Anthony


    With TWUGP you can actually see the thickness of the wax after numerous layers (I used to apply every other week spring to fall). I have had people comment that I have a lot of wax on my car in the past when I used to use TWUGP, and I can tell you I and others could notice the difference after several coats compared to one coat - especially on the hood. There was a difference the naked eye could quite easily notice in the right light. I have not been able to notice this with high end carnauba`s. They don`t look like they layer, but then I can`t say for a fact they don`t. Note TWUGP has synthetics mixed in with the carnauba and is probably mostly synthetic.



    As for the UPGP I can`t really tell visually if it is layering, but am relying on their own information I read on the Ultima website forum and how they have measured (however minute) increased thickness with additional layers.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Orosco
    Your reply is rather odd and while the burden of evidence is on you I will attempt to explain why it doesn`t.



    Wax doesn`t cross link, like many polymer sealants do (and paint), therefore it is, in a nutshell, an oily layer resting on the surface. If you add another layer of wax the solvents present in that wax will replace, not build up or layer, the first application.



    Solvents are needed to soften up the wax and make it pliable therefore the thinking is that those same solvents will remove the previous wax layer.



    Now if you wish to hold to the thinking that they can layer I must then ask how can you possibly measure that? There is no way to do so. It would seem that the science/chemistry of this all would disagree with the possibility of waxes being layered.



    Anthony
    My question was not meant to be rude. I was speaking of sealants being layered and not nuba`s. The only way to layer nuba`s IMO is spit shinning.

  8. #38

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    You guys can go right on thinking clear coat and base coat are the same, but they`re not. If you`d ever sprayed it, you`d know they aren`t. Base is a pigment suspended in solvent, usually xylene or similar, and is often blended with a reducer (more solvent) to make spraying easier. It dries by evaporating off the solvent, leaving pigment and/or flake and some residual binder. Clear is usually urethane-based, and does not dry, but rather hardens shortly after being mixed with a hardener or catalyst.

  9. #39

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    All I know is the cars I`ve seen that haven`t ever had wax or sealant on them hardly get water spots, not true for a heavily waxed or sealed car.

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Orosco
    That`s great that you have found products that you like but how is it that you know you are getting these products to in fact layer one on another?



    Please understand that I am not seeking to argue here but rather wanting to know how you determine these are layering.



    Thanks,

    Anthony


    If thats true, does that mean the same for Zaino or not?

    I say no. But interesting post none the less.

  11. #41
    Rasky's Auto Detailing RaskyR1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FirstRate
    "Is the silicone content in LSP’s, (which is what’s really responsible for this attribute enthusiasts cherish/envy/idolize so much that creates a vehicle to bead and sheet water) add any benefit to the longevity of paint? (i.e. waxing an oxidized finish and 3 weeks later it fades right back but still beads water)"



    Not all LSP`s contain silicone. Many premium and luxury waxes are all natural. I wouldn`t attribute silicone to producing a desirable finish either.



    With the waxes I use I can literally feel a measurable layer of protection above the clear. Any bird droppings or insect contaminants would not reach the clear, nor would it have the ability to etch into the clearcoat.


    LOL....and which wax is this?

  12. #42
    Rasky's Auto Detailing RaskyR1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RZJZA80
    All I know is the cars I`ve seen that haven`t ever had wax or sealant on them hardly get water spots, not true for a heavily waxed or sealed car.


    I`m sure that has something do do with waxed cars beeding the water vs. none waxed cars where the water seems to just sort of soak into the paint or lay on top.

  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonsfavson
    I don`t know what LSPs you use, but I have to believe that you only *think* that you`re feeling something. The thickness of most LSPs is measured in microns, which would be undetectable by the human hand.


    So, you can`t tell the difference in feel between a panel that has been waxed and one that hasn`t?



    Who said the unit of measure is anything other than microns? All I implied is that there is a noticeably different feel between waxed/unwaxed panels that is large enough to be measured :think:.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Orosco
    Your reply is rather odd and while the burden of evidence is on you I will attempt to explain why it doesn`t.



    Wax doesn`t cross link, like many polymer sealants do (and paint), therefore it is, in a nutshell, an oily layer resting on the surface. If you add another layer of wax the solvents present in that wax will replace, not build up or layer, the first application.



    Solvents are needed to soften up the wax and make it pliable therefore the thinking is that those same solvents will remove the previous wax layer.



    Now if you wish to hold to the thinking that they can layer I must then ask how can you possibly measure that? There is no way to do so. It would seem that the science/chemistry of this all would disagree with the possibility of waxes being layered.



    Anthony


    While I will agree that the additional layer *may* remove *some* of the previous layer I wouldn`t be so quick to say that it removes *all* of it. It`s not like there is a thorough massaging of the second layer when applied.
    Triple Honda Owner

  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Orosco
    Because the UV added to paint has a half life of 5 years so this would then mean that after 5 years half has broken down. What`s remaining in 15 years?


    1/(2^(20 / 5) ) = 1/16



    Wait, was that rhetorical?



    Tort

    "It was my understanding that there would be no math."

 

 
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