Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 107
  1. #16

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    73
    Post Thanks / Like
    another reason for wax and cleaning a car is mpg`s, not to many people consider it. here is a post from edmunds.com



    Think Clean

    Keeping your car washed and waxed improves aerodynamics and therefore affects fuel economy. Engineer Tom Wagner, Jr. reported to Stretcher.com (as in stretching your dollars) a 7-percent improvement in fuel economy, from 15 to 16 mpg, during a 1,600-mile road trip.



    Top 10 Tips for Improving Your Fuel Economy



    i dont notice a difference but i guess it help`s, my father in law works for united airlines and he states that all planes are waxed on a daily basis to consume fuel "how true this is "? who knows

  2. #17

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    340
    Post Thanks / Like
    I must admit i find myself pondering these very same questions. So far i have three main reasons why i value a good LSP.



    1. Even on well prepped and polished paint, a good wax or sealant will make a visual difference. The difference is small and takes a trained eye, but it is there.



    2. Wax makes a car easier to clean and reduces the damage the environment can inflict. I think the slickness and lubricity an LSP adds create this quality. Depending on the product the paint might not feel as slick as it did right after wax, but that does not mean it is not slick enough to do its job.



    In a rain storm today water was beading on tired poliseal on the hood of my truck. On the hood of the truck next to mine, the water was all one perfect sheet. The way water moves on paint is crucial. When water beads it can move of the paint easer and it remains in a drop shape that carries its dirt away with it, therefore, less harmful contaminates end up on the paint. The dirt that does stick around is now easier to remove. Think of it like a suction cup on a greasy surface. When water is in one big sheet, dirt is in one big sticky sheet. Not good. I have worked with old paint with no beading that felt like sandpaper even after attempting to conventionally wash and dry it. How the paint got that way leads me into my third and final reason.



    3. Even clear coat will oxidize. I do believe that a wax can work like a sunscreen for the paint. It is not unheard of for a product to do this. You can see proof in a few sunny weeks with a product like aerospace 303. oxidation is one of many ways paint can lose its slickness, its gloss, and its integrity. Ever see a car with clear coat failure? Usually the cause is a crummy respray, but even quality oem clear will fail if totally abused. In a lot of cases wax could have delayed or totally prevented the damage.



    After seeing cars that are never waxed I will always protect my cars and i value LPS`s that last a long time, bead like crazy and protect against UVA and UVB.

  3. #18

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    154
    Post Thanks / Like
    No doubt sealants/wax improve appearance - even on a brand new car.



    If you never polish down your clearcoat, there is no doubt in my mind sealants/wax will add longevity to the life of the clearcoat before it eventually oxidizes and peals off.



    The question is, what is the trade-off between correcting/polishing out imperfections that removes some clearcoat while using sealants/wax?



    If it is a break-even on the life of the clearcoat while you beatify your car, it is well worth it in my mind.

  4. #19

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    St. George, Utah
    Posts
    4,574
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by David Fermani
    Are waxes or sealants even necessary with today’s modern clearcoats? If so, how?



    Are they adding longevity to its composition? Hence feeding, coating, sealing…



    Are they eliminating UV rays from fading the basecoat?



    Are they eliminating acids from rain, birds and insects from etching into the clearcoat?



    Do they create a sacrificial barrier that eliminates surface marring due to slickness? Even though initial slickness falls off almost initially after the 1st few washes, does that mean this so-called protective characteristic has diminished too?



    Is beading indicative of protection? If so at what capacity?





    I`ve seen and worked on tons of 2-3++ vehicles that had never been LSP`d and most times never witnessed any damage that the LSP could have eliminated. Yeah, each one had tons of RIDS and swirls, but that`s irrelavent to protection value.



    Is the silicone content in LSP’s, (which is what’s really responsible for this attribute enthusiasts cherish/envy/idolize so much that creates a vehicle to bead and sheet water) add any benefit to the longevity of paint? (i.e. waxing an oxidized finish and 3 weeks later it fades right back but still beads water)







    Thought:

    If you split up a daily driven vehicle into ’s where 1 side was LSP’d every 4 months for 10 years & the other half was lightly polished at the same interval with a non-abrasive finishing polish coupled with a non-abrasive finishing pad (i.e. jewelling) which side would be better preserved over the long term?
    No matter how well refined your wash regiment is, you’re still instilling a measureable (not seen by the naked eye mind you) amount of super micro-marring that’s slowly depleting the appearance of the gloss. The LSP’d side will never correct this super ultra fine micro-marring, thus snowballing the hazing effect, where the regularly polished side will be regularly correcting it. I’m sure at this point in your reading you’re saying to yourself that every time you polish the surface you’re thinning the thickness of the clearcoat, right? But are you, and how much? I’d be willing to say that this non-abrasive practice that’s being done 40 times over the course of the comparison *might* remove less than 5 microns (not mils) of film build? Doing the math and acknowledging the thought that many vehicle manufactures don’t recommend removing any more than ~.5 mils(12.7 microns) of clear before *possible* detrimental UV exposure *could* occur, there’s still tons of clear left to still be on the “safe” side. The upside of this comparison is that the polished finish will look totally better than the just LSP’d side.





    Which would you rather have?


    Very interesting discussion. Just when I think I`ve convinced myself to be on one side of it, a doubt comes up, and the whole argument starts over. Honestly, I don`t know, but I do know that the bold part should be tatood on every detailing enthusiast`s forehead. IMO, there`s probably *much* more damage done during *most* guy`s wash than we think.



    Now to go back and read the whole thread... Good stuff, David, leave it to you to really get the brain cogs turning...
    Sage advice from Greg Nichols: "Hey, Supe? Always make sure your pressure washer tip is firmly attached to the end of the high pressure wand before pointing it at the windshield of a car, mmmkay?"

  5. #20

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    257
    Post Thanks / Like
    Modern clearcoat? How recent is MODERN?



    My 1998 Dodge has never been waxed and it has alot of clearcoat failure.



    My new civic, 10 years from now, hopefully wont have clearcoat failure because i wax it and maintain it

  6. #21

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,409
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by AeroCleanse
    Clear coat is just paint without pigment in it, not some special protective coating.


    Not true at all. You`ve obviously never used the stuff. The two layers are totally different.

  7. #22

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    4,052
    Post Thanks / Like
    My Moms 2004 Chevy has never been waxed or polished. It looks horrible. Lesson learned!
    MDRX8

  8. #23

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    4,532
    Post Thanks / Like
    There is NO natural UV protection within wax, it must be added. So to think that because you`re waxing your car on a regular basis and it will deter sun fade then you`re fooling yourself.



    First, your cars protection starts at the factory. So if your car happens to get a bad UV spray, perhaps because of technical issues while being sprayed, then it doesn`t matter what you do... it`s just going to fail premature. Why? Because the UV added to paint has a half life of 5 years so this would then mean that after 5 years half has broken down. What`s remaining in 15 years? This goes for all cars sprayed with a UV system.



    So it becomes clear that while waxes and sealants cannot stop marring and such, the main goal should be adding to or supplementing the paint protection that`s already present then worry about the polishing and keeping it as mar free as possible.



    If paint is not protected properly then there will be no paint to polish, correct?



    Anthony
    "The Art & Science of Auto Detail"

  9. #24

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    4,532
    Post Thanks / Like
    Also, clear coat is paint......(it does have different properties/characteristics) yet with no pigment. So it does oxidize yet not in the same manner as pigmented paint.



    Those seeking to add layers of wax thinking that this adds protection must understand that wax does not bond with paint thus it lays on top of the paint and your next layer will only replace the first layer, it will not build on top of the first layer. Now adding a second coat is smart for full coverage but it won`t add to the first.
    "The Art & Science of Auto Detail"

  10. #25

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Dillon, CO
    Posts
    507
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Orosco

    Those seeking to add layers of wax thinking that this adds protection must understand that wax does not bond with paint thus it lays on top of the paint and your next layer will only replace the first layer, it will not build on top of the first layer. Now adding a second coat is smart for full coverage but it won`t add to the first.


    Agreed, well written Anthony!

  11. #26

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    2,187
    Post Thanks / Like
    I was kinda thinking about the same thing the other day.



    As a lot of people like the look of a freshly polished and waxed car but after a few light rain showers and the paint beading, they get discouraged and lazy and start to live with the water spots.



    So I was thinking of polishing without a LSP and after the polishing oils and initial slickness goes away, the paint might sheet water a lot better.

  12. #27

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    154
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Orosco
    Also, clear coat is paint......(it does have different properties/characteristics) yet with no pigment. So it does oxidize yet not in the same manner as pigmented paint.



    Those seeking to add layers of wax thinking that this adds protection must understand that wax does not bond with paint thus it lays on top of the paint and your next layer will only replace the first layer, it will not build on top of the first layer. Now adding a second coat is smart for full coverage but it won`t add to the first.


    Yes, but a sealant like UPGP offers UVA/UVB protection and will layer.



    While most carnauba waxes don`t layer, I have found carnauba/synthetic blends that do.



    My favorite filler wax is actually an OTC blend that does layer - TWUGP.



    Not the best looking wax, but fills well and does layer. Pretty good looking for an OTC, but not my go to.

  13. #28

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    4,532
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by tmg19103
    Yes, but a sealant like UPGP offers UVA/UVB protection and will layer.



    While most carnauba waxes don`t layer, I have found carnauba/synthetic blends that do.



    My favorite filler wax is actually an OTC blend that does layer - TWUGP.



    Not the best looking wax, but fills well and does layer. Pretty good looking for an OTC, but not my go to.


    That`s great that you have found products that you like but how is it that you know you are getting these products to in fact layer one on another?



    Please understand that I am not seeking to argue here but rather wanting to know how you determine these are layering.



    Thanks,

    Anthony
    "The Art & Science of Auto Detail"

  14. #29

    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    NYC/PA
    Posts
    188
    Post Thanks / Like
    I think it`s good to ask, most of the time we just take the word of the manufacturer when it comes to non observable chemical properties...

  15. #30

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    2,889
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Orosco
    That`s great that you have found products that you like but how is it that you know you are getting these products to in fact layer one on another?



    Please understand that I am not seeking to argue here but rather wanting to know how you determine these are layering.



    Thanks,

    Anthony
    How do you know that it is not layering?

 

 
Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Best Waxes & Sealants
    By akimel in forum Car Detailing
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 11-17-2011, 09:56 AM
  2. Top 5 Waxes - Top 5 Sealants
    By DETAILKING in forum Waxes, Sealants, and LSP's
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 10-26-2009, 09:41 AM
  3. The best waxes and sealants?
    By imported_akimel in forum Waxes, Sealants, and LSP's
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 07-11-2009, 03:50 AM
  4. Spray WOWA sealants vs. paste waxes and liquid wax/sealants
    By Inzane in forum Car Detailing Product Discussion
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 12-05-2008, 07:07 PM
  5. Waxes and sealants
    By Knight in forum Car Detailing
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 01-08-2003, 10:10 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •