Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 93
  1. #61

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    2,022
    Post Thanks / Like
    Originally posted by Mike Phillips

    Now I`m not a chemist, I have never pretended to be or claimed to be, in fact, I usually try to steer the discussion in a way that the average Joe Consumer can both understand and relate to.


    All right then. I`ve always kept that in mind when I read your posts. We`re really not the average Joe Consumer, though.



    Originally posted by Mike Phillips

    That said, it`s probably not any solvents, in NXT Tech Wax, that are responsible for the removal of the felt marker, but the highly specialized abrasives in the Tech Wax.



    Tech Wax was formulated to meet the EPA’s new, incredibly stringent V.O.C. regulations for 2005 here in California.



    One more note: Although the word abrasives tend to conjure up thoughts of a products that scratch, consider this:



    For all of you that have the Tech Wax in your possession, if you have a flawless finish to test on, then try this simple test.



    Using a clean, soft foam applicator pad, apply a small amount of Tech wax to your flawless finish and remove and look to see if it left any scratches.



    The correct result is, no... it should leave any scratches, that’s because the abrasives used in Tech Wax are not those kind of abrasives. Remember, there are many types of abrasives that Meguiar`s has access to. This enables the chemists to pick and choose the exact type of abrasive to accomplish the goal of the product.



    Look at this example: The nap of a 100% cotton terry cloth towel, consists of little tiny cotton threads in the shape of a loop. These little cotton loops are a type of abrasive when used in the right manner with the right product on the right surface.



    Same kind of thinking applies with Tech Wax...



    In the case of Tech Wax, the goal is to eliminate fine scratches. This is done in two ways, the highly specialized abrasives both remove scratches, and the polymers fill in the scratches. The result is a more clear and more defect free surface.



    That is the goal correct? a clear, reflective, high gloss surface?



    (and protection too)



    Mike


    Agh! Okay, okay... abrasives, not solvents. Sorry! But do you really have to write a 304 word essay on it, that just happens to steer away from the original intent of my post? We all know abrasives don`t have to scratch... lets leave it at that. But why turn it into something else? We`re not fans of product-praising advertising for each answer we get... trust us, we`ve had enough.



    Originally posted by Mike Phillips

    p.s.



    BW, did the Tech Wax make your dryer look good?


    Yes, it looks good. But what does that matter? So does mayonnaise...



    BW

  2. #62

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    3,534
    Post Thanks / Like
    Originally posted by Mosca

    With all this discussion centering around "removes all of the previous product" OR "removes none of the previous product", I`d like to say that there`s another possibility: "Removes less than it adds". It`s possible that a second coat of a product could remove, say, 30% of a previous application, but RETURN 70% more. If I were to guess based on my experience, that is what I would say products like NXT and NXT Spray do.



    BlackZ28, my experience with the booster wax is that it, too, contains cleaners.



    Tom


    Everyone seems to want a simple formula and there just isn`t one. If you think of all the variables in applying a single coat of product on top of another, it would totally impossible to determine actually how much old product you`re removing when applying a new coat.



    Is it a possibility? I guess. Is there a way to prove it? No.



    BTW, this concept is not limited to NXT or Meguiar`s products. Virtually all products on the market are going to generate this result.
    There are only three things you need to know about me. Gloss, Gloss, GLOSS!!

  3. #63

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    6,727
    Post Thanks / Like
    Originally posted by Intermezzo

    Furthermore, DavidB is a person who`s advice I highly respect and he`s also been a strong advocate of the layering ability of certain paint sealants.


    Oh, jeeze... did you have to bring me in to this?



    Personally, I laugh at many of the things people try and recommend. So, here`s my official position:



    1. Some sealants containing cleaners have the ability to significantly improve the finish quality and durability by applying two coats. I chaulk this up to the simple fact that the first application is really acting as a pre-wax cleaner and the second application has a nice, clean surface giving it a better chance of "sticktion". Anyone who has applied back to back coats of Klasse AIO will know exactly what I`m talking about.



    2. I don`t believe any sealant will provide an improved visual impact beyond 3-4 coats. The very nature of chemical film technology will simply not allow it unless the base formula is inert. Once you introduce a solvent and mechanical action, you will remove some, if not all, of the previous coating. I know of only two systems that fall into the "remove some" category. All others I`ve tested remove all. Zaino Z5 has a low enough solvent content that it will not remove itself. Klasse SG has no solvents at all. Everything else, I`m sorry to say, falls in to the "removes itself" category. This is not to say that applying two coats of NXT, BF, AIO or UPP will not improve the final finish... it will... but not past two coats.



    3. Layering of AIO, SG and a wax like P21S or Pinnacle Souveran works because you are applying different chemical foundations on top of one another. Once Klasse SG cures, the low solvent content in Souveran will not hurt the acrylic film. The look improves becuase the acrylic molecules are small and even in size and the wax molecules are long and stand up vertically. This gives the visual appeal of more depth. I have tried layering waxes on petrol-based polymer sealants and concluded it does not work. Even with Zaino Z2+ZFX, I applied Souveran after a 24 hour cure period, then washed with Z7 and the Z2 finish was gone. The solvent in the wax removed the Z.



    So, my official conclusion is:



    * Any sealant containing solvents/clay can be applied twice to get a better finish. If you want to call this "layering", okay, but they don`t.



    * Unlike products may be able to be layered if they are chemically compatible. Z2 on top of Z5 is an example. KSG on top of AIO is another example.



    The results anyone gets from surface care products vary widely based on the process, ancillary products and conditions. I can make a product like NXT last for months and continue to look great by using the right car wash, detailing spray and toweling. Likewise, I can put a product like Z2 on its knees after two washes.



    What we like, we like. What we don`t shouldn`t matter. I find it hard to believe we have spent so much time arguing over the results of NXT.



    Anyone who wants to make a product work, can get good results. People who don`t want it to work will have bad results. I can do this with any product you give me.



    When I first started writing the new Zaino product descriptions and usage for Sal, I tried my best to get bad results, and I did. There are all kinds of ways to screw it up.



    When I tested NXT, I went into it with a positive attitude. I tried it on a dirty panel, I tried it on a perfectly prepared panel. I tried it with foam, terry cloth and a tee shirt. I even tried a second coat, and I put it on silver. I did not experience any of the negative problems others have described. I made it last by using a good shampoo and an excellent QD.



    What I didn`t do was pick NXT`s MSDS apart, because, quite simply, it doesn`t matter. All I wanted to know is does the product make my paint finish look good (yes), was it easy to apply (yes), was it a reasonable value (yes), and does it protect my paint between waxing (which for me is about every two months). Everything else is esoteric BS for people who need to get a life!



    db

  4. #64

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    5,775
    Post Thanks / Like
    Originally posted by DavidB

    Oh, jeeze... did you have to bring me in to this?





    What I didn`t do was pick NXT`s MSDS apart, because, quite simply, it doesn`t matter. All I wanted to know is does the product make my paint finish look good (yes), was it easy to apply (yes), was it a reasonable value (yes), and does it protect my paint between waxing (which for me is about every two months). Everything else is esoteric BS for people who need to get a life!



    db




    Amen !



    Nuff said.

  5. #65

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    976
    Post Thanks / Like
    Originally posted by DavidB

    Everything else is esoteric BS for people who need to get a life!


    I guess the majority of Autopia needs to get a life, eh? And I guess it "hurts" those close to NXT when I try to make some observations and comments...but silly me, I guess MSDS are just window dressing. Wonder what OSHA might say to that?



    So much for discussing product merits and qualities, compositions, etc. like we did in the "old days." Let`s all hug each other and sing Kumbia by the campfire. S`mores anyone?

  6. #66

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Philadelphia, P.A.
    Posts
    2,247
    Post Thanks / Like
    Originally posted by blkZ28Conv

    Amen !



    Nuff said.


    Second!!! :up
    "If you want to be rich - work. If you want to be clever - study. But if you want to be happy - do what you really like"

  7. #67

    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Madrid
    Posts
    1,315
    Post Thanks / Like
    What we like, we like. What we don`t shouldn`t matter. I find it hard to believe we have spent so much time arguing over the results of NXT.



    Anyone who wants to make a product work, can get good results. People who don`t want it to work will have bad results. I can do this with any product you give me.



    This should be enough! It resumes IMO how things should be.

    We should be discussing processes, not products, less their MSDS, cause we don`t even have access to all MSDS from all products.



    I wonder how many of we can achieve the same results with NXT as Mike does? And if one can`t, is the product to blaim?

  8. #68

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    6,727
    Post Thanks / Like
    Steve,



    You miss the point. If you read MSDS for OSHA and transportation, you`re using it for its intended purpose. I have the MSDS sheet for every product I handle. So what!



    If you try to use it to "guess" the contents of a product, I think you`re way off base. If you don`t know the actual contents and content levels (and we don`t), what do you really know? Nothing! Is it possible to duplicate a formula by having the MSDS? No. So, why is it people feel compelled to make broad sweeping, all-knowing comments and be right? That`s exactly what has been happening lately (often maliciously).



    Regarding being "hurt", I can`t speak for other resellers, but I proudly offer Meguiar`s products. We go through 3-4 cases of NXT a day, and I have yet to have a return because it does not perform to the customer`s expectaion. I stand by my comments that for the money (cost per ounce) it is an excellent product. Comparing it to some low-volume, high cost products is like comparing my Cayenne to a Ford Explorer.



    I don`t believe in picking things apart based on a company`s marketing or what I "think" the contents might be. I`d rather discuss how I get results and dispose of the excuses. If you fear for your health, by all means, read the MSDS. IMHO, disgussing a product based on what`s listed on an MSDS is nothing but technobabble.



    db

  9. #69

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    976
    Post Thanks / Like
    Who`s discussing the MSDS here? On another forum I did a little side-by-side comparison of NXT and #20, using the MSDS as reference. I didn`t proclaim to know the exact formula... people put words in my mouth all the time, it`s no wonder I`m never that hungry.



    Perhaps you`re forgetting about the wonderful archives, but we used to have great discussions and debates about products and their abilities. Now, if we don`t all agree on the results, we all draw sides and fight to the death. Sad. Truly sad.



    All I ask is that I not be misled about things. I`m open and honest with everyone, and I request the same respect. I don`t care if we`re talking waxes, warehouses or whatever.



    I think it`s best that I leave this discussion, as it has apparently taken a decidedly personal tone... which if I recall correctly is forbidden by the House Rules. I`m going to go gaze lovingly at my bottle of NXT and dream of how wonderful it is. I might even see if I can teach it how to do the dishes - it seems to be able to do everything else, so why not try.







    Be honest with yourself. That`s all I try to do, and all that I ask. I wish some of the other respected members/mods would share thier NXT reviews with us.

  10. #70

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    2,045
    Post Thanks / Like
    Comparing it to some low-volume, high cost products is like comparing my Cayenne to a Ford Explorer.


    HEY! Those Explorers and Trailblazers are pretty nice!



    Oh.. wait; wrong forum. Sorry.

  11. #71

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    2,045
    Post Thanks / Like
    Crystal Guard. That`s another one that I`d bet would accept a layer of wax, DavidB. Crystal Guard is one tough sono```un. I had to rub for about 2 minutes with ScratchX to get some scratches that were underneath Crystal Guard.



    It is a product that does not tolerate shortcuts in application, though. Let it cure a week before washing.



    Tom

  12. #72

    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    chicago
    Posts
    48
    Post Thanks / Like
    fascinating discussion, i have learned much. thank you!

  13. #73

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    2,045
    Post Thanks / Like
    Oh, and,



    ouch, guys. You ALL are good people. I remember getting worked up over something here, and a couple of you reminded me that I was getting bent out of shape over opinions on window cleaner. It`s my turn to return the favor.



    Tom

  14. #74

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    142
    Post Thanks / Like
    :wavey :wavey :wavey :wavey :wavey



    Im outta here, never really got the question answered from Mike. But several others confirmed what I "believed" to be true. Cleaners/Abrasives contained within a product will remove some/most of the previous layer of same product "if" another layer is placed.



    All I wanted was a quick, concise, and truthful answer .... didnt need to be on either side of the NXT coin. (so to speak) No harm Mike, I believe you really like to hear (or read) yourself, and I still love the work you did on that Black Corvette. :up (tell me secretly, you used Eagle One`s Nano Wax right?? )





    Steve, you gonna try or have you gotten your hands on Wolfgang?? Menzerna FMJ ???

  15. #75

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    5,775
    Post Thanks / Like
    locutus

    Welcome to Autopia!!



    This is not our normal means of discussing detailing but like any family we have heated discussions. Keeps things interesting and exposes some very interest facts/ideologies/ideas. We have all dissed our brother, sister, mother, father, wife, husband and best friend. May have even stated some things in the heat of battle that we do not truly mean. Only to later mend the fences and have a good drink and a laugh.

    It is truly healthy to hear from both sides of a subject/product but it is more important to reach a conclusion on your own. Nothing we buy here is really expensive or could potentially cause financial ruin. Just disappointment but 9 out of 10x we will discover a wonderful product to add to our detailing arsenal. :wavey

 

 
Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Question for Mike Phillips...
    By Cro0oz1n in forum Detailing Product Reviews
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 09-13-2010, 08:40 AM
  2. Mike Phillips...NXT ? for you
    By breakneckvtec in forum Car Detailing Product Discussion
    Replies: 84
    Last Post: 07-29-2010, 04:29 PM
  3. Mike Phillips?
    By CharlesW in forum Hot Tub
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 03-08-2007, 10:08 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •