Have Click N Brags "Jumped the Shark"???????

[Darkstar752]

For me it was Todd Helme, Marc Harris and the ultra rare C&B from Kevin Brown. Every one from those guys was a joy to read, very inspirational and educational too.

I agree with this, car porn is nice but when the products are listed along with techniques, it just seemed better to me. More thought provoking, creating new ideas and building on others techniques. Now-a-days most seem pretty guarded as to their techniques and such, and I partially can`t blame them. The fiasco with Got_wax(think that was his name) back in the day changed that viewpoint for me.



I`m going to try and go back to sharing my techniques in hopes that it will help, but the added time of stopping every 5 minutes to take pictures can add a lot of time to a detail, along with customers budgets. Hopefully I`ll be able to done one soon.

[Brian_Brice]

Very long thread, didn`t read it in it`s entirety but I did read the original post. I agree with most of what you have to say about write ups David. Truth of the matter is paint correction type details were trending at their high point five years ago, and like anything else the heard will move on to different topics after they have taken what they are going to from the genre. The question will always be raised as to how many ways are there to skin a cat? I enjoyed the illustration and monumental turnarounds some of these cars would go through; and while it does look better on a fine vehicle many daily driver posts are up there in my memory banks as well. Everyone would like to illustrate their work in an original format, with new technology and software but little room for originality has been left after years of hard work by many detailers so that probably has something to do with it as well.



I used to click to see the money shot (not the final product but the before and after condition) which is still what I look for if I am to click on one today and that`s about it. Not to say there is not great information from multiple sources, nor that I myself have nothing left to learn, but as you know David--when it comes to removing unwanted damage from a painted surface most of us have long since needed help or tips from others. It`s already monotonous as it is.



At least the internet is an archive which will forever house many timeless write-up`s and like anything else on the internet, I`m sure they will trend again.

[C. Charles Hahn]

The more I think about this whole issue, it seems to me that there`s another possible contributor to the lack of content being generated in this section; that being the name itself.



The concept of "Click & Brag" puts a certain connotation into the minds of those posting and reading threads. It says "Look at me, I`m such a bad-@ss! My work rocks and I`m here to blow my own horn!"



We all know that in the vast majority of cases, that connotation does not accurately represent why people post threads, and it`s also not why people come to read threads.



I can`t help but wonder if it would be advantageous to simply re-name the section to something more neutral such as "Detailer`s Showcase" or "d`Elegance of Detailing" in an effort to promote a different atmosphere. Who knows, that alone might make a dent in all of the "ego stroking" comments people like Bob/Jimmy/Richie/Jeff (to name a few) have been targeted with.



This place is about showcasing hours of hard work, not "bragging" about how good a detailer is or that they got to work on a high-dollar exotic. THAT seems to be what people have lost sight of here. We`ve seen this thread go through stages of debating the format of threads, to what sort of content is "worthy" of being posted, to what motives/agendas people who post threads have. Now the question is, what does Autopia want to be? Who is Autopia targeting?



Historically speaking, the Autopia community at large has seemed to go through a number of cycles. From a base of predominantly enthusiasts, to a mix of hobbyists and pros, to mostly professionals. At different times, the attitudes have been anywhere from one of open sharing and collaboration to carefully guarded restraint, and sometimes even standoffish elitism. Yes, a lot of this comes from the members, but the management has to also take responsibility for it as well.



While I largely agree with and appreciate an open and hands-off approach to managing a forum, it is also necessary to change and react organically to the needs of the community as it evolves. That`s not something I`ve seen happening lately. Instead of an 18 page debate spanning a period of 3 months, there should have been a reaction and change in an effort to turn things around much, much sooner when it became evident that the community`s needs and desires have become refocused. Being slow to react to issues creates more damage which will ultimately take much longer to recover from. I`m willing to bet the traffic statistics and reports reflect that if we were to view trends over time.

[Brian_Brice]

The more I think about this whole issue, it seems to me that there`s another possible contributor to the lack of content being generated in this section; that being the name itself.



The concept of "Click & Brag" puts a certain connotation into the minds of those posting and reading threads. It says "Look at me, I`m such a bad-@ss! My work rocks and I`m here to blow my own horn!"



We all know that in the vast majority of cases, that connotation does not accurately represent why people post threads, and it`s also not why people come to read threads.



I can`t help but wonder if it would be advantageous to simply re-name the section to something more neutral such as "Detailer`s Showcase" or "d`Elegance of Detailing" in an effort to promote a different atmosphere. Who knows, that alone might make a dent in all of the "ego stroking" comments people like Bob/Jimmy/Richie/Jeff (to name a few) have been targeted with.



This place is about showcasing hours of hard work, not "bragging" about how good a detailer is or that they got to work on a high-dollar exotic. THAT seems to be what people have lost sight of here. We`ve seen this thread go through stages of debating the format of threads, to what sort of content is "worthy" of being posted, to what motives/agendas people who post threads have. Now the question is, what does Autopia want to be? Who is Autopia targeting?



Historically speaking, the Autopia community at large has seemed to go through a number of cycles. From a base of predominantly enthusiasts, to a mix of hobbyists and pros, to mostly professionals. At different times, the attitudes have been anywhere from one of open sharing and collaboration to carefully guarded restraint, and sometimes even standoffish elitism. Yes, a lot of this comes from the members, but the management has to also take responsibility for it as well.



While I largely agree with and appreciate an open and hands-off approach to managing a forum, it is also necessary to change and react organically to the needs of the community as it evolves. That`s not something I`ve seen happening lately. Instead of an 18 page debate spanning a period of 3 months, there should have been a reaction and change in an effort to turn things around much, much sooner when it became evident that the community`s needs and desires have become refocused. Being slow to react to issues creates more damage which will ultimately take much longer to recover from. I`m willing to bet the traffic statistics and reports reflect that if we were to view trends over time.

You are absolutely right, could you imagine if every line of work operated the same on the internet? Electricians telling other electricians they use better wire snippers, and run coax better -- Librarians insisting they are the quietest etc...



Too much fluff and self indulgence at times as well, it was probably too tempting not to.



How many of you (including myself) have seen a car that presented very well on a car forum that didn`t live up to the write up in person? I was up north at a show and saw a few cars I remembered seeing a write up on that wasn`t all it was cracked up to be. So you have to wonder if this was intended deceit or did these detailers fall victim to the power of unintended fillers? No way to know for sure but it`s disappointing to see in person.

[whitejavaS500]

<3 <3







I`ve said it in this thread and will agree again with above; I like seeing the process. Gratuitous pics are nice and in some cases they do tell a story, but even so I just really enjoy hearing how people are doing things. Not because I want to rip them off, not because I can`t do it myself...because I love detailing and it`s interesting to me to see how other people are achieving results they do.



For me it just got very time consuming to do c&bs. I just got home from the shop and it`s 10 till 11pm and I`m in at 6am... so now I take vids of cool correction, upload `em to youtube and call it a day.

Dude its been a while, how`ve you been man!? I ended up getting a 335is... getting hit by a conversion van, then picking up a trade in CLK55 AMG for a steal. Still going at it with the detailing?

[Dan]

Oh I can take constructive criticism when its given, but I just disagree with your assessment of "how it should be". I`m here because this site has really gone downhill and this thread really helped put the nail in the coffin...I mean really this thread is just depressing with people complaining and being lazy.



Fact is people are lazy. What`s wrong with having lots of pictures? You CAN`T convey 25+ hours of work in 5-10 pics and have anyone take you seriously as a professional. This isn`t mainstream advertising so that doesn`t work here. This forum is to show and display your work....which requires pictures. If you can`t stand looking at pictures, why bother opening these threads? Sounds like you`re wasting your own time. You did compare it to tons of boring pics from family afterall......

Don`t get your panties in a wad and run home...sheesh.



I agree with you, you can`t convey 25 hours of correction in 10 photos... or 25. I`m stating less is more, sorry you don`t understand that concept. How could you do it in 10 pictures?



1. Complete car before

2-3 some close-ups

4-6 afters with closeups/halogen shots

7- wheels before/after side-by-side

8-10 some interior shots

A link to a youtube and gallery for the rest

[white gecko]

Don`t get your panties in a wad and run home...sheesh.



I agree with you, you can`t convey 25 hours of correction in 10 photos... or 25. I`m stating less is more, sorry you don`t understand that concept. How could you do it in 10 pictures?



1. Complete car before

2-3 some close-ups

4-6 afters with closeups/halogen shots

7- wheels before/after side-by-side

8-10 some interior shots

A link to a youtube and gallery for the rest

Easy there chief.



I understand the concept just fine. You stated nothing about more pictures, so I can only read what you originally wrote.

[autoconcierge]

Don`t get your panties in a wad and run home...sheesh.



I agree with you, you can`t convey 25 hours of correction in 10 photos... or 25. I`m stating less is more, sorry you don`t understand that concept. How could you do it in 10 pictures?



1. Complete car before

2-3 some close-ups

4-6 afters with closeups/halogen shots

7- wheels before/after side-by-side

8-10 some interior shots

A link to a youtube and gallery for the rest

Dan you are taking the less is more concept to heart as I searched the first four pages of the C&B`s and cannot find ANY write up from you, as I was going to peruse thru your work and comment accordingly.



What I did find from searching thru your posts was moaning and general bit**ing about well..........................wait for it, how you do not like posts that do not help the community , and how it is a OBLIGATION to do so. Here it is......those that can do............those that cannot not bi**h and moan against those that do.



Just because someone does not post exactly the way you want them too, you are setting yourself up for dissapointment. I do NOT like the fluff I see continually and the outright lying and hiding mistakes..........but I do not comment..........I just move on as everyone knows" who`s who in the zoo" and which people put out pro level work all the time. Everyone is different and does things the way they want too as that is the definition of freedom and liberty, of course if something is vulgar or just so stupid that it needs to be clipped then it should be clipped or negative reactions will be the norm.



How is this as Charlie stated(Who is always the voice of reason and common sense btw) have a section where the write up is a tutorial and a section to show the work off regardless of the amount of pics and content or what vehicle/plane/tractor/toaster oven etc........ the bias here is so blatant and this is without dispute...................and if it keeps up I will name names as those who are guilty of this KNOW I have no fear in myself in this regard.

[Dan]

Easy there chief.



I understand the concept just fine. You stated nothing about more pictures, so I can only read what you originally wrote.

Actually, I did in my original post: "5, maybe 10 photos is all you need. Add a link if someone wants to see more."

[Dan]

Dan you are taking the less is more concept to heart as I searched the first four pages of the C&B`s and cannot find ANY write up from you, as I was going to peruse thru your work and comment accordingly.



What I did find from searching thru your posts was moaning and general bit**ing about well..........................wait for it, how you do not like posts that do not help the community , and how it is a OBLIGATION to do so. Here it is......those that can do............those that cannot not bi**h and moan against those that do.



Just because someone does not post exactly the way you want them too, you are setting yourself up for dissapointment. I do NOT like the fluff I see continually and the outright lying and hiding mistakes..........but I do not comment..........I just move on as everyone knows" who`s who in the zoo" and which people put out pro level work all the time. Everyone is different and does things the way they want too as that is the definition of freedom and liberty, of course if something is vulgar or just so stupid that it needs to be clipped then it should be clipped or negative reactions will be the norm.



How is this as Charlie stated(Who is always the voice of reason and common sense btw) have a section where the write up is a tutorial and a section to show the work off regardless of the amount of pics and content or what vehicle/plane/tractor/toaster oven etc........ the bias here is so blatant and this is without dispute...................and if it keeps up I will name names as those who are guilty of this KNOW I have no fear in myself in this regard.

Yep, I have no click and brags....in your corny words.... "wait for it" ....because I don`t think they provide much value except to the OP and their business. Since I have no business, I don`t promote my work. I do post pics of other things I think might be of interest to the community, and you will note I try to keep the pics to a minimum, I value peoples time and would rather get questions about things than seem long winded.



I`m not sure what the rest of your tirade is about... lots of words, not much content.....

[gmblack3]

IMO, if someone does not like the way that others post C&Bs, then dont click or reply.



I also think (IMO) this thread has become a waste of time, so I guess I should heed my own advice.



Back to this Porsche.

[autoconcierge]

Yep, I have no click and brags....in your corny words.... "wait for it" ....because I don`t think they provide much value except to the OP and their business. Since I have no business, I don`t promote my work. I do post pics of other things I think might be of interest to the community, and you will note I try to keep the pics to a minimum, I value peoples time and would rather get questions about things than seem long winded.



I`m not sure what the rest of your tirade is about... lots of words, not much content.....

Shooting fish in a barrel with some of you, as the highlighted portion of your words above states.....................you make my point for me. 4K plus posts with no write ups(Before you whine you have no detailing biz plenty here also are not pro`s but put up fine work to be proud of)so until you do it..........do not tell others how to do it.





For something of no value to YOU, you have have a strong opinion on the subject.

[Junebug]

Actually Bob, I think somewhere in this I mentioned having 2 forums - one with cliff notes on how to and the other just nice car pics. I`ve made the suggestion a while back to the powers that be and it`s been considered - just nothing final yet.



Would that make sense? Would ya`ll rather have instead of C&B, have a how-to showcase AND a fine car gallery?

Let`s keep the discusion focused on what would make the forum better.

Thanks

[autoconcierge]

Dave Fermani should have not started this thread.....................should not have started the "For those who only post pics" thread, as it gave a soap box for all the guys who hate exotics/Big city people/elaborate write ups(Gee where was all the ill will towards Todd helme`s write up with graphs and hundreds of pics??...) I know because he listed his products and steps..........but Todd worked fo PAC at the time remember...showcasing products.



Do you guys hate higher learning universities like Stanford or Yale/Harvard??? I mean how dare they charge 50K a SEMESTER for their "Secrets", those of you who always blow off what I say as tirades know I am right, and the Laserbeam of exposure to a**hattness does not feel good does it?..............and guess what you cannot do anything about it as it is my opinion just like the opinions you guys have launched from the "Peanut Gallery".



I love it Dan, you and the "Detailing Authority" Sean Tiller errrr Jon without a H Miller think that putting write ups on "DETAILING FORUMS" to other DETAILERS is the reason I put them up..........yes get ten calls a day from "Monied up CEO`s" that saw me on AUTOPIA.ORG wanting their 250,000.00 vehicle worked on by myself................ both of you are cluless on how those type of clients are procured as both of you have not run a detailing business and that is fact.



The bias and "Good ol boy" atmosphere that is the prevailing style here now is the problem, when you have big turnarond corrections with or without being a exotic and a few comments are made, then because someone is popular here puts so little effort into their post and gets comments like "Great stuff buddy" love your video of the 04 Maxima one step.................come on now.



Alot of you could be duped if I started listing "Dis-information" as my products and steps............just enough truth to hook you and then post sillyness because you are lazy and take something @ face value instead of being on the ball................but I do not do crap like that because I am honest. If everyone just worried about themselves and gave credit where credit is due instead of "Look at him................must be nice to do a McLaren, that car did not need much let`s see Bob get terrible stains out of a Toyota Previa cloth seat"..... well I can..........and have................many times. With that "Go and sin no more".

[Dan]

Shooting fish in a barrel with some of you, as the highlighted portion of your words above states.....................you make my point for me. 4K plus posts with no write ups(Before you whine you have no detailing biz plenty here also are not pro`s but put up fine work to be proud of)so until you do it..........do not tell others how to do it.





For something of no value to YOU, you have have a strong opinion on the subject.

I didn`t say I didn`t have any write ups, I don`t have any click and brags. You know, for someone who is representing their business, you sure to seem a little hot and bothered. I`m laughing at your attempts to personally attack my reputation on this board. I think you probably don`t know a whole lot about me, heck, you haven`t even dug very far to see what I have contributed, but I`ll tell you this, I don`t give a whole lot of concern to what people, especially strangers think of me. So your little jabs have been nothing more than a waste of your time. But in the spirit of jacking your blood pressure up a notch or two, at least what I do posts helps people that have problem, I don`t come on here to push my business. I come here because I like detailing and i like helping others with the hobby/business.