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  1. #1
    Forza Auto Salon David Fermani's Avatar
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    I’m sad to say it, but I really think Click N Brags (i.e. where people display their details on-line) have lost their effectiveness. Not just on Autopia, but on all forums. I remember the days where good detail displays would receive several 1000 views and multiple pages of replies right off the bat. Now a days, you’re lucky to break a 1000-1500 total views which is a fraction of what it used to be. Some barely even get 5 replies. It seems like the early Todd Helme, ScottWax, RickRack & Thomas Dekany (to name a few) threads that would make people read and re-read them over and over ingesting every picture and word are a thing of the past. And let’s not even forget the godfather of the exotic Click N Brag 01bluecls who basically invented the hardcore before & after DLSR picture threads that still today are even unrivaled by most. Do a search for yourself and see what I mean. And that was done back in 05-06 days.



    If I had to give an answer for this downward spiraling, I would most likely attribute it to the overwhelming concentration of threads that are exhibited on every car forum on the net. Everywhere you look people are posting their threads like it’s graffiti on the subway. I really think viewers have become numb to it. If you posted a swirled up exotic back in the day it was like visual gold. Now, you’re just another detailer showing yet another detail on a car that probably most of us can’t even afford to own anyways. There are very few exceptions to this from people that have continually risen the bar of quality beyond the blasé bla that we have going on right now. I would categorize these people to be Todd Helme with his mind blowing paint graphs and multi-100 million dollar car collection write ups, Paul Dalton for his incredible videos from all over the world displaying his spare no expense attitude and even newcomer Marc Harris with his incredible explanations and professionally photographed pictures. Beyond that, it’s kinda just the same ole thing, but just with a different car. I remember it would be a rarity back in the day to have a mechanical description of the car being displayed including the ever so sheik description of the car’s color (usually Italian). Now, everyone is throwing their ring into the circle with the same thing. It’s really getting old IMHO.



    Case in point: In case many aren’t aware, I have received most all of my recent detail business from forums. Either by clients that find me on Autopia or from other people that know me from Autopia and refer me work. And I don’t even have a website or do many Click N Brags either. I actually haven’t done one in quite a long time. I just try building my exposure by posting information. Now I’m not saying that that is the end all be all of getting your work, but I think it certainly can help build to your online resume and profile. The more your name is seen associated with something either helpful or different, the more people will remember you. And all at the same time helping advance the detailing industry forward!



    Many I know spend hours taking the pictures of the right shot, editing and uploading them to a hosting site, creating the semi-descriptive article, linking the pictures and posting the thread. And to put the icing on the cake they fail to reply to people giving them prasie in the thread or just by simply just saying a quick thanks and exiting. For crying out loud display some sort of professional etiquette and reply to people in your threads. They are the ones that have taken the time to read your hard work just to give you praise out of courtesy. To ignore your potential and current fans just buries your grave at a faster rate. Heck, we even have a Like system integrated into the forum. You could even go a step further and Like what someone has said to you too. You don’t even have to type anything out for that one. Bottom line, it’s the act of the response that shows your respect and thanks.





    Am I the only one that feels this way? And if so, who is asking themselves how we can do something that will make us different then the next person? I think this is actually doing the on-line detailing community an injustice as the ones that might be trying to help this profession, might just be throwing another stone on the pile aiming it in the opposite direction. My suggestion to stopping this decline would be to do something different. Instead of this cookie cutter show n shine application, why not try doing a product write up or even an in-depth article on a workflow or process that makes what you do special. Or even an article on an all time favorite product you love using in your arsenal. Or heck with today’s hi-tech smart camera phones, why not post up an interesting video like what Garry Dean has fully embraced with incredible success? :2thumbs: (congrats on your 100th You-Tube video btw ) I would urge you to do something different and break the chains of mediocre. Thanks for reading!
    Metro Detroit`s leader in cleaning, preserving & perfecting fine automobiles!

  2. #2
    Garry Dean Quality! Garry Dean's Avatar
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    Damn, David, I didn`t even get an honorable mention for being different, lol.
    Garry Dean - Tampa, FL - 813-846-4406
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  3. #3
    Forza Auto Salon David Fermani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry Dean
    Damn, David, I didn`t even get an honorable mention for being different, lol.


    You are 10000% accurate Garry! I am so sorry for not mentioning you. YOU ARE THE PERSON DOING SOMETHING DIFFERENT!!! You are what I am referring to and what others should take notice of. Again, sorry. And I will edit my original post!
    Metro Detroit`s leader in cleaning, preserving & perfecting fine automobiles!

  4. #4
    Garry Dean Quality! Garry Dean's Avatar
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    I didn`t say that to call attention to myself, but i guess that`s what happened. I commented because I agree with you. In a down economy where people are doing whatever they can to make a buck and fly by night detail operations are popping up everywhere, the best thing for us to do is separate ourselves from the rest. We all need to promote our own unique identity.
    Garry Dean - Tampa, FL - 813-846-4406
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  5. #5

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    Well, I feel its more of a super friends club type deal. It is easy to tell that when certain members post up work they get a lot more traffic because they are more "famous." Now I am not taking away from some of the higher ups for what they do. What they do is what made them a higher up. But its gotten to the point now, when top names, which I wont mention any, post a thread, its a guarantee that they are going to get tons and tons of post. Which is my opinion is sad.



    Now for the quick "thanks" replies...I myself have been guilty at times of doing that. But I feel that if I say nothing, then I am just posting the thread to stroke my ego or if by posting thanks, I am acknowledging someones reply. Same as you would return a greeting to someone in person if they greet you. I would love to be able to give more in dept answers, but sometimes, there is nothing more to say than "thanks."



    For breaking the mold, some people cannot do that. I would love to take videos of my work or time elapsed videos...but I do not have a camera and tripod to do that. Since I have only been around, coming up on 3 years, I am still trying to get my name out there. People tell me a lot that I am the best at what I do...I generally correct them to, "I am great at what I do, but am far from the best." I love reading through some of the higher up threads, seeing what they do and trying to replicate it to my own personal method or way.



    As long as you have those posting up high end collector car jobs, they will always hold the standard. To me, people should not be so biased to skip over threads of a $30,000 car with a $1,000 job to look at a $250,000 car with a $1000 job. When its professional, it should be graded by the level and quality of work, not by the grade and quality of what was worked on. Which, will never happen. As I said at the start, the high ups who post there threads, who have been in the industry 5+, 10+ or even 15+ years will always get more traffic. Or those who have two "Autoweek Top 10" detailers do jobs together.



    Again, not taking away from those people. There is a reason they are considered at the top of there class with what they do and they do deserve the acknowledgement they get. But, hell sometimes, as it was stated last year, it does roll into a "Superfriends Club" type effect.



    -Mike

  6. #6
    Forza Auto Salon David Fermani's Avatar
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    Mike - I agree with alot of what you have to say. Thanks for taking the time to explain it in such detail!



    One of my points that might have been missed it that even the "higher ups" or people that all kinda communicate in the same network fo friends have been getting a ton less views lately too. Is it worth the work that goes into creating these threads just to receive a watered down amount of views? I just don`t see the point?
    Metro Detroit`s leader in cleaning, preserving & perfecting fine automobiles!

  7. #7
    Brad B's Avatar
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    I think part of being different would be to focus more on specific challenges of the detail rather than only an overall description. Describe a particular correction/repair/fix and what techniques/tools and products were used to perfect it. This would be an interesting learning tool.



    Let`s face it, just seeing glory shots of a finished job is ok, and wash-n-buffs done on brand new cars is nice, but I certainly get more interested in really tough issues that challenge the detailer. Pro or not.



    Just a thought.
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  8. #8
    Forza Auto Salon David Fermani's Avatar
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    Common...all you guys reading this don`t have anything to say about it?? Would love to have your input!!
    Metro Detroit`s leader in cleaning, preserving & perfecting fine automobiles!

  9. #9
    Garry Dean Quality! Garry Dean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Fermani
    Common...all you guys reading this don`t have anything to say about it?? Would love to have your input!!


    Damn it, David... Is this thread going to be another statistic?



    Seriously guys, chime in! You know you have an OPINION!
    Garry Dean - Tampa, FL - 813-846-4406
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  10. #10
    Forza Auto Salon David Fermani's Avatar
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    You can bet your bottom dollar that this thread is going to end up becoming a sticky when all is said and done.
    Metro Detroit`s leader in cleaning, preserving & perfecting fine automobiles!

  11. #11
    MarcHarris's Avatar
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    Man-o-man.



    I`ve spent a lot of time talking to people individually about this very topic and issue. In a sea of quality detailers who can make a nice post showing off their work... how do you stand out?



    THAT`s the key. How do you create a following or get popular? How can you get people to click on your thread rather than someone else`s? I`ve spent a lot of time studying this and thinking about my own actions and reactions over time. I remember before the great hack-attack on autopia when a decent write-up would easily get 2-3k views. Now, I`ve browsed outstanding articles that are trying to sneak over 1k.





    While I`m not dumb enough to share ALL my secrets/opinions/observations, I will give you some ideas.

    1. Posting an exotic is no longer enough.

    2. Showing the same pics of the same angles is no longer enough.

    3. Having 50/50`s is no longer enough.

    4. Posting and running won`t get you much popularity. People enjoy supporting those they see active in the community who try to give back through continuous posting in various threads. If you only view the Click and Brag section, and only post new thread/reply to your own threads, you`re not going to see much of a return on your time spent on autopia. Many of us have been guilty of this to some degree, to include myself, by this is more about the big picture than any 1 week or 1 month snap-shot.
    Marc Harris from AutoLavish Fine Automobile Care of Michigan

  12. #12

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    It`s watered down. The standard was set, and now everyone with the time does it. I visit this site daily and mostly view oddball topics and product reviews. When I look at the "show and tells" it`s more for the products used and if there was anything that stood out during the detail, like abnormally hard/soft clear. The assumption being that the job is gonna be pretty darn good if the write-up contains three dozen pictures and a title stating "1,000 hour detail...".
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  13. #13
    MarcHarris's Avatar
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    Let`s also face it: detailing is easy to get into. Very easy.



    This doesn`t mean it`s easy to be good, and doing plenty of reading doesn`t take the place of actual experience. We`re also in the middle of a changing way of advertising. Spending time on local forums, facebook, and at meets can all eat into time spent on a major detailing forum like autopia. Just as it`s easy to get into detailing, it`s easy to make a website for forums. While some forums have been swallowed up, there are still multiple other large detailing forums where people can do some reading, get advice, and learn about a new product.

    Advancements and understanding of DA polishers has lead a lot of enthusiasts to start working on their own vehicles.
    Marc Harris from AutoLavish Fine Automobile Care of Michigan

  14. #14
    mikenap's Avatar
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    Many good points so far. These days, it does seem like everyone is getting more and more jaded with each new C&B posted. Injecting a little personality into a write-up isn`t hard to do, and will give forum members some idea of who you are away from the keyboard. I`ll be keeping an eye on this thread. Thanks for bringing this up David.

  15. #15
    Forza Auto Salon David Fermani's Avatar
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    Great replies!



    Everyone should be well aware that Autopia is 100% behind the advancement of detailers in any way, shape of form. If you have an idea where we can help you grow your business feel free to bounce it off of me. If you have a web-site, add it to your signature and/or homepage. Post up your info in the Find a Detailer tab section. Heck, feel free to post a click n brag on your business if you want. Example: http://www.autopia.org/forum/autopia...lves-here.html
    Metro Detroit`s leader in cleaning, preserving & perfecting fine automobiles!

 

 
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