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  1. #151

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    Quote Originally Posted by Picus
    Yep. I am going to sound a little like I`m on a high horse, but I am really tired of pro detailers just posting cnbs and not offering any sort of helpful feedback to the forums they are members of. I am not referring to autopia now, mostly automotive sites whose detailing sections are littered with pros posting pictures and nothing else. I can`t count the times I`ve seen a pro join a forum just to post a cnb of a car that site is intended for just to drum up more business.


    I don`t cross post in any forum I am not an active member of. Just feels too much like spam if you post on multiple forums without any other activity.
    www.scottwax.com

    Certified Opti-Coat Pro/Pro 3 installer

  2. #152

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    I`ve actually had to go and ignore certain people in the C&B section because their threads were worthless IMO. I don`t need to see a dozen pictures of you using OPC and little or no results. Personally, I find the most value in the well-laid posts, and the most enjoyment out of those who bring some really awful cars back from the brink. The moldy Audi comes to mind.
    -Steve

    2011 Mustang GT | Kona Blue Metallic

  3. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottwax
    I don`t cross post in any forum I am not an active member of. Just feels too much like spam if you post on multiple forums without any other activity.


    Amazingly, many pros do it and get away with it regularly at most of the brand related car forums.
    Click here to see what I`ve been working on, or here to see my YouTube page!

  4. #154

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    Quote Originally Posted by C. Charles Hahn
    This brings up an interesting point worth expounding upon. Different people in different situations use the C`n`B`s for a multitude of reasons. Whether it`s seeking validation, advertising, just showing off, or looking for constructive feedback/learning.



    Remembering that only some of us know each other in the real world outside of the forums, and keeping in mind that this is a public forum, it`s difficult to know how someone will react to having even constructive criticism posted in one of their write-up threads. If folks are concerned about offending the person showing off their work, they`ll shy away from commenting instead of supplying feedback or adding a disingenuous "good job!" post.



    I also don`t often read a click `n brag thread where there are questions from the person posting. Perhaps, if you want feedback on something specific, you could say "Here`s what I was able to do to _____ with x product, is there anything I can do to improve on this even more?" That way people know without a doubt that you want that kind of feedback.



    It`s just as much the responsibility of the person writing the thread to attract attention to it as it is the responsibility of the community to respond.


    That`s another thing. CnBs have basically become "here is what I did" and then you get between 2-200 "nice" posts. It`s so difficult to accurately gauge a detail via pictures that offering any sort of real feedback is tough; and if that feedback is in the form of constructive criticism it`s frowned on. I am not saying all cnbs should end, just that if you do post one make it a good one. Post your process and products, post detailed photos, post some tips if you learned anything during the detail, etc. Then it`d be worthwhile, imo.
    Click here to see what I`ve been working on, or here to see my YouTube page!

  5. #155

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    Quote Originally Posted by Picus
    That`s another thing. CnBs have basically become "here is what I did" and then you get between 2-200 "nice" posts. It`s so difficult to accurately gauge a detail via pictures that offering any sort of real feedback is tough; and if that feedback is in the form of constructive criticism it`s frowned on. I am not saying all cnbs should end, just that if you do post one make it a good one. Post your process and products, post detailed photos, post some tips if you learned anything during the detail, etc. Then it`d be worthwhile, imo.


    I really don`t fault anyone posting their work and not describing every step of the process or answering everyquestion they may get. Its called BRAG not tell. All they should be nice enough to do is say `thank you`. Brag is `look what I did` not `here is how I did it.` Maybe have a `Show and Tell` section for that.

  6. #156

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    OK, I guess I see that point. For me at least, pictures with no process is pretty much useless...but for others maybe it`s helpful, or at least entertaining.
    Click here to see what I`ve been working on, or here to see my YouTube page!

  7. #157
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    I can see both sides of the story. I`m sure most people find it more entertaining to read about different steps and what was done, but if someone chooses one reason or another to not include that information, it only makes their write-up less appealing. If they`re OK with it being slightly less entertaining, then I`m OK with it too. Let`s not forget that even those epic threads talking in-depth of what the detailer did at each step are most often just scrolled over to see the pics after all.



    I`d really like to see a split between Click & Brags versus Show & Tells. I think that has nice potential.
    Marc Harris from AutoLavish Fine Automobile Care of Michigan

  8. #158

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    Very interesting discussion. I`m almost a 100% lurker, but I`m going to throw one thing into the mix that`s completely personal preference:

    I`ve seen this in a number of forums I used to frequent....



    The look of the forum is actually visually exhausting. Many internet forums use to have clean and simple page layouts. A forum thread actually looked like a neat and clean conversation.

    Today, the look is visually cluttered and exhausting: colored gradient gray bars on the top and bottom of each post, quotes are white text in dark blue boxes, the posters name and avatar are in a black thick box, there are dark colored logos and signatures all over the place, etc.



    What this actually fosters is the online version of a conversation overrun by noise and distractions. Instead of the actual conversation and photos taking front and center stage, my brain is pulled in all directions looking at colored gradient bars, dark blue boxes, dark black boxes, logos, huge swaths of color, etc. Yikes!



    I know this sounds silly, but I know of a number of forums that switched to a visually busier layout over the years, and the number of quality posts went down together with the new "visual update". Yes, that`s anectdotal evidence, but I feel it`s true, and it feels true.



    When the forum layouts return to a simple place to have a conversation with a CLEAN uncluttered look (which also loads faster), I`d wager that the conversation would pick up again. ....but not from the old timers. In my experience, once someone stops posting, they rarely go back to becoming a frequent poster. I have theories on that, but that`s a whole `nother subject. But new comers might be encouraged to carry on coversations.

    ...Just a thought.
    You know what seems odd to me?

    Numbers that aren`t divisble by 2.

  9. #159
    CCH Auto Appearance, LLC C. Charles Hahn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Terminator
    Very interesting discussion. I`m almost a 100% lurker, but I`m going to throw one thing into the mix that`s completely personal preference:

    I`ve seen this in a number of forums I used to frequent....



    The look of the forum is actually visually exhausting. Many internet forums use to have clean and simple page layouts. A forum thread actually looked like a neat and clean conversation.

    Today, the look is visually cluttered and exhausting: colored gradient gray bars on the top and bottom of each post, quotes are white text in dark blue boxes, the posters name and avatar are in a black thick box, there are dark colored logos and signatures all over the place, etc.



    What this actually fosters is the online version of a conversation overrun by noise and distractions. Instead of the actual conversation and photos taking front and center stage, my brain is pulled in all directions looking at colored gradient bars, dark blue boxes, dark black boxes, logos, huge swaths of color, etc. Yikes!



    I know this sounds silly, but I know of a number of forums that switched to a visually busier layout over the years, and the number of quality posts went down together with the new "visual update". Yes, that`s anectdotal evidence, but I feel it`s true, and it feels true.



    When the forum layouts return to a simple place to have a conversation with a CLEAN uncluttered look (which also loads faster), I`d wager that the conversation would pick up again. ....but not from the old timers. In my experience, once someone stops posting, they rarely go back to becoming a frequent poster. I have theories on that, but that`s a whole `nother subject. But new comers might be encouraged to carry on coversations.

    ...Just a thought.


    While what you`ve brought up is really a totally separate issue, I 100% agree. I honestly really hate the aesthetics of the vB skin this site is using. Seems like something designed and built by an amateur.
    Charlie
    Automotive Appearance Specialist - Serving Greater Lansing, Michigan
    http://www.cchautoappearance.com/

  10. #160
    umi000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C. Charles Hahn
    While what you`ve brought up is really a totally separate issue, I 100% agree. I honestly really hate the aesthetics of the vB skin this site is using. Seems like something designed and built by an amateur.


    I set mine to "vBulletin Default" and leave it there - color scheme is a lot easier to the eyes.

  11. #161
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    Interesting opinions thru all 14 pages, where you have some who want more pics less verbiage then the exact opposite from others. As it pertains to me specifically I put up the posts not for ego as many claim that I do, but as a "Carguy" I like to see the best cars in the world looking their best and WHOEVER does this I will comment accordingly.



    The banter has developed into a Have vs "Have not`s" where there is a reverse discrimination towards anyone who is fortunate enough to procure a job on a high end vehicle then complete the job with quality and integrity, then a developing post on on how that vehicle went from being marred and dirty to a better than showroom condition.



    For me it seems that the dues I paid working on "Momobiles" and entry level vehicles when most of many here were in grade school or not even born yet means nothing, and the vehicles in which I market myself in a specialized way to work on to pay my bills and provide for my family is something that is to be looked down upon because I work on "Easy vehicles" that do not require any effort at all. If you do a complete turnaround on a vehicle which is destroyed with vomit/food/mold/scratches from hell that is something to be proud of and it required skill and hardwork especially a daily driver or momobile.................but here is the kicker I can do all that as well but what I would charge for that job is beyond what almost anyone would pay as the tab might be 25%+ what the vehicle is worth.



    As for the products and steps I have explained over and over why/what/who/where................and the people who revile me for this also know why but do not care as then it gets in the way of their agenda, if you look at past posts I categorized EVERYTHING I used and specifically when I was involved with GI I was a schill..................but then the owner put a write up in the exact way I did in the past and it`s "Great job buddy" ..........come on now.



    I give lot`s of tips out of the lime light as I do not care to be known as a "Guru" and do not have a agenda to sell anything whether it be my advice or a product line and many here have benefitted from this(You know who you are) and I do that because I choose too out of generosity of my time and knowledge but at the end of the day does anyone really "Owe you" anything??



    These comments will probably be clipped, but the truth is what it is and so it cannot be denied.

  12. #162

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    Quote Originally Posted by rexrock
    I really don`t fault anyone posting their work and not describing every step of the process or answering everyquestion they may get. Its called BRAG not tell. All they should be nice enough to do is say `thank you`. Brag is `look what I did` not `here is how I did it.` Maybe have a `Show and Tell` section for that.
    Isn`t there a "how-to" section already. For me, I used to do it, but I am of the same mindset as "Bob", or at least I believe so. People need to do some good old experimenting and trial and error, like back in the old days when the forums didn`t exist. I had a few guys over the years call me a liar with the products I used on certain cars, "that`s impossible". So, I take my impossible products and keep it to my self. I still answer PM`s, like Bob or Dave of most of the other "gods" of detailing. In fact many of them answer with the "quickness", although it may just be because I don`t bother asking them a million questions. I enjoy the pics, and if I have a question, I PM them and they respond. Works for me.

  13. #163
    Rasky's Auto Detailing RaskyR1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bryansbestwax
    Isn`t there a "how-to" section already. For me, I used to do it, but I am of the same mindset as "Bob", or at least I believe so. People need to do some good old experimenting and trial and error, like back in the old days when the forums didn`t exist. I had a few guys over the years call me a liar with the products I used on certain cars, "that`s impossible". So, I take my impossible products and keep it to my self. I still answer PM`s, like Bob or Dave of most of the other "gods" of detailing. In fact many of them answer with the "quickness", although it may just be because I don`t bother asking them a million questions. I enjoy the pics, and if I have a question, I PM them and they respond. Works for me.




    While I don`t really have issue with people not posting their process, I have found that if I leave an important detail out of a thread which piques interest, I`m often bombarded with PM`s. Which can be annoying, especially with the limited inbox sizes we`re given.

  14. #164

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    When I say post a process I don`t need anyone to get into massive detail unless asked. For example, you don`t need to say "I appled PO106FA via a blue LC pad on a Makita rotary, spread at 800 rpms, worked for 4 minutes and 14 seconds at between 12-1300 rpm then finished for 1 minute and 9 seconds at about 1000 rpm before wiping off with a microfiber made from the souls of young children"... Something as simple as, I used a combination of megs 105, megs 205, and menz 106fa on surfbuf, orange lc, and black lc pads... It just helps give me some reference on the process used. Most of us who do this professionally can see a list like that and get a very good idea of how the entire detail went...but without it, it`s just pictures.



    If you want to get super detailed, great. All I am saying is without at least a small list of the compounds used I get very little from just pictures.
    Click here to see what I`ve been working on, or here to see my YouTube page!

  15. #165
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    Another point I have brought up as it pertains to me only is, how many people here have a competition near by who use exactly what you do against you?........ and will not play by the rules??.



    It is nice to have everything layed out for you all the time but that is not how life really works, you will get as far as your smarts, work ethic and let`s face it luck will take you.



    Now I am not going to speak for Dave(dsms) but you have a guy who was doing things and learning quicker than most guys in business for much longer, at one time he was doing not near the level of vehicles he does regularly now and it did not happen thru chance......he earned it, by learning the craft then presenting himself in a proper manner.



    I will say I do not consider myself a "God" of the industry, and sometimes it is flattering but I know that I put my pants on like everyone else and besides my wife would not allow this as she is a quality woman who has her feet planted on the ground as do I.



    It comes down to this........work hard, mine the nuggets of knowledge needed and be a man of respect........the rest takes care of itself.

 

 
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