Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 74
  1. #31

    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    8,402
    Post Thanks / Like
    First quick attempt on this Mystic Blue 04 330i.



    The defects are not horrible for 105k miles, but not very nice either. Now this is my first Mystic Blue, but most of the metallic colors from this era are usually pretty hard IME. If anyone else has found Mystic Blue to be on the softer side let us know.



    Subject as it arrived:







    Random defect shot:







    Quick before shot of the rt side of the hood. Sorry that both are a bit distorted but I cropped them out:







    After shot of the left side of the hood.



    7" surbuf/old M105/PC6 1 pass

    LC black/M205.PC4.5







    I had spritz`d the surface lighly with water since I did not have any of the QD that Kevin used.



    Even thought I pressed the pad into a MF after priming it appears that I had to much polish in the pad. So I followed Chris`s advice wiping the polish off after a few passes and going back at it without adding more polish.



    I was watching the polish as I passed with the pad, it appeared that the fingers where laying down but not excessively.



    You are using MUCH less pressure with the surbuf pad then an orange pad.



    The surfaces looked pretty good after the M105 step, sorry no pic of that.



    I got to get back to it as the client needs this car back tonight.
    Bryan Burnworth - Atlanta Car Detailing - Peachstate Detail LLC

    Selected as one of the top nine detailers in the US by Autoweek

    Published in the 356 Registry

    The only exclusive Opti-Coat Pro specialist in Atlanta

    All PPF work done by the best in Atlanta Derek Johnson of Atlanta Protective Films

    Follow Peachstate Detail LLC on Facebook here.

  2. #32

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    86,975
    Post Thanks / Like
    gmblack3a- Thanks for posting that. Big thing I noticed was that you were using a 7" SurBuf on the PC, so yeah, you must not`ve been applying much pressure. Pretty impressive that it cut so well!

  3. #33

    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    8,402
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator
    gmblack3a- Thanks for posting that. Big thing I noticed was that you were using a 7" SurBuf on the PC, so yeah, you must not`ve been applying much pressure. Pretty impressive that it cut so well!




    Actually after talking to Kevin again, you can apply some pretty good pressure with the 7" pad. Still not like the pressure required to do the KBPCM.
    Bryan Burnworth - Atlanta Car Detailing - Peachstate Detail LLC

    Selected as one of the top nine detailers in the US by Autoweek

    Published in the 356 Registry

    The only exclusive Opti-Coat Pro specialist in Atlanta

    All PPF work done by the best in Atlanta Derek Johnson of Atlanta Protective Films

    Follow Peachstate Detail LLC on Facebook here.

  4. #34

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    86,975
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by gmblack3a
    .. you can apply some pretty good pressure with the 7" pad. Still not like the pressure required to do the KBPCM.


    OK, guess there`s a wide range in what different people think of regarding the amount of pressure. You know, the "plenty of pressure but not so much that it merely jiggles" sort of thing.



    Maybe I`m just used to being able to really lean on the Cyclo, but I have to watch that I don`t overload my PCs by pressing too hard, not that *that* oughta be a problem since the SurBufs apparently cut so well (let alone with M105 in the mix).



    EDIT: It occurs to me that the SurBufs are just so *different* from regular foam pads that the whole pressure thing is probably a different ballgame altogether.

  5. #35

    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    10,520
    Post Thanks / Like
    i apologize if it`s already been mentioned, but has anyone tried using these pads with the Flex?...

  6. #36
    Kevin Brown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    653
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator
    OK, guess there`s a wide range in what different people think of regarding the amount of pressure. You know, the "plenty of pressure but not so much that it merely jiggles" sort of thing. ...


    Bingo!

    It is very difficult to express a thing like applied pressure in writing.

    I am having this problem in with the method paper.

    I mean, if it is to be the guide to using a specific procedure, there should be no gray area, right?

    All I can do is identify pressure as light, normal, moderate, or heavy. I have weighed my G100 with a 6.5" polishing pad in the past. It was somewhere around 6-1/2 pounds. Then, I grabbed ahold of it firmly. Its weight registered around 12.5 pounds. I added a bit of pressure, mimicking what I thought to be normal. I came up with about 15 pounds. So, that`s normal to me. Moderate pressure is something like a 50% increase, so 22-23 pounds. Heavy would be 23 to 30, which is a lot.



    If anyone knows of a better way to relay pressure, I certainly would be interested to hear about it.



    Quote Originally Posted by BigAl3
    I apologize if it`s already been mentioned, but has anyone tried using these pads with the Flex?...


    My friend Mike has. He`s the guy that bought the Dynabrade Dual-Action Buffing Head: http://www.autopia.org/forum/machine...fing-head.html



    Anyway, he used the Surbuf on a powder blue Porsche and a black BMW.

    He says he paired it with the Flex 3401VRG and M105, and it works very well.

    Then followed up with the G110, Meguiar`s So1o yellow pad, and Meguiar`s M86 So1o Cut and Polish Cream.

    He says it turned out fantastic.



    At least with the Flex you won`t have to concern yourself with watching the rotational speed, as it will keep that constant.

    I just wonder how well the Flex handles virtually no-load on its drive mechanism.

    If the balance mechanism is as it should be, it will probably be fine.



    This is a pretty new procedure, so it is only going to benefit from added experimentation. :buffing:

  7. #37

    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    10,520
    Post Thanks / Like
    ^ thanks for the response :up

  8. #38

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    86,975
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Brown
    It is very difficult to express a thing like applied pressure in writing...I am having this problem in with the method paper...there should be no gray area, right?


    I certainly sympathize with you there!



    I grabbed ahold of it firmly. Its weight registered around 12.5 pounds. I added a bit of pressure, mimicking what I thought to be normal. I came up with about 15 pounds. So, that`s normal to me. Moderate pressure is something like a 50% increase, so 22-23 pounds. Heavy would be 23 to 30, which is a lot...If anyone knows of a better way to [relate] pressure, I certainly would be interested to hear about it.


    Not having tried actually polishing my scale I`d say that`s a good set of guidelines. Especially the 20 = moderate, seeing as how 20 lbs. is sorta the rule of thumb AFAIK. 30 lbs. seems like a lot, possibly enough to bog it with some pads :think: I suspect that the (bogging-related) effects of increased pressure are not linear but that`s just a guess.





    I just wonder how well the Flex handles virtually no-load on its drive mechanism.

    If the balance mechanism is as it should be, it will probably be fine.


    I somehow suspect that the Flex 3401 will deal with near-no-load at least as well as it will handle more-than-moderate pressure. Consider the failures that`ve been reported and the presumed necessity of lubing the felt ring (which apparently never occurred to the folks at Flex, who must`ve tested the thing under what they considered normal conditions).

  9. #39
    Kevin Brown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    653
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator


    Not having tried actually polishing my scale I`d say that`s a good set of guidelines. Especially the 20 = moderate, seeing as how 20 lbs. is sorta the rule of thumb AFAIK. 30 lbs. seems like a lot, possibly enough to bog it with some pads :think: I suspect that the (bogging-related) effects of increased pressure are not linear but that`s just a guess.


    Yes, thirty is a lot. Some panels won`t like it nor require it.

    Also, consider that anything higher than moderate should be applied briefly and concentrated (tilt the pad on edge a LITTLE). Slightly tilt and push, back off and inspect. Repeat as needed and occasionally feel the surface for heat. A tilt of the machine better concentrates the applied downward pressure to the defect being attacked, so at least the whole panel isn`t being `brutalized`.



    I can only imagine the force being applied to a patch of paint that is being got after with a rotary and a grabby pad.

    Downward pressure and sideways twisting force must be substantial if buffed in an aggressive manner.



    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator


    I somehow suspect that the Flex 3401 will deal with near-no-load at least as well as it will handle more-than-moderate pressure. Consider the failures that`ve been reported and the presumed necessity of lubing the felt ring (which apparently never occurred to the folks at Flex, who must`ve tested the thing under what they considered normal conditions).


    True. One thing nice about the random-orbital is that it is able to handle the pressure, and do so without steering your pad all over the place. It`s a real fight when downward pressure is increased over normal. As long as the R/O is not flat-spotting the pad due to lack of rotation, things are good. That`s why I wish there was a way to make a machine offered just a tiny bit of forced rotation. I don`t want the pad steered for me, but I do want rotation to continue. So, a brief lift of the pressure, let the pad rotate a bit, an I continue polishing. Plus, if heavy pressure causes a stall of rotation, it sometimes can even reverse the random rotation (depending upon the shape of the panel, pressure, angle of the buffer, slipperiness of the panel, etc.).



    Hey, as long as the pad is not flat-spotting, I don`t mind.

  10. #40

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    86,975
    Post Thanks / Like
    Kevin Brown- You and I sure seem to be on the same page a lot these days :xyxthumbs I find myself nodding my head and saying "yeah...uh-huh...right.." a lot.



    I haven`t tried really leaning on the Flex yet (well, at least it didn`t seem like I was at the time), but yeah, having to get *really* aggressive with a rotary can be a struggle.



    Heh heh, hadn`t thought of the term "flat spotting" in this context.



    Have you worked with a Cyclo much? Even without forced rotation it behaves quite differently under load than machines like the PC.

  11. #41

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    316
    Post Thanks / Like
    Hey guys, I apologize for posting to a thread that`s almost half a year old. I just want to share my results. Unfortunately, I do not have before pictures, as they were pretty useless. My camera is unable to capture the defects prior to the paint correction being described below. It is really hard to capture defects on the silver metallic paint. However, defects are much easier to spot in person!





    A few weeks ago, I wetsanded my hood to remove some orange peel. Although I removed much of the sanding marks using the DA and a cutting pad, I was left with a few tracers and some sanding hazes on the hood. The tracers were caused by the 2000 grit and 2500 sandpaper. I decided to experiment two different methods to remove the deeper sanding marks.





    The Procedures:

    Setup 1 - 7" Surbuf Pad + 7424XP at Speed 6

    Setup 2 - 6.5" Purple Foamed Wool + Makita Rotary at up to 2000rpm





    Compound - M105

    Lubrication for Surbuf - Last Touch 1:1 upon the recommendation of KB



    I split the hood into two sections. I used the rotary on the passenger side and the DA on the driver side. I worked in sections of roughly 2` x 2`. Surface wiped with 1:1 99% Alcohol and Distilled Water after each pass and observed under the afternoon sun.



    The two pads being compared:





    The Surbuf R series compared to the traditional Wool Pad:





    Observations:



    Rotary + PFW:



    As expected, the rotary coupled with the PFW was able to remove a majority of the remaining sanding marks and tracers in just one pass. After a wiping down the working area, and then observing the area under the sun, there were still a couple of very light scratches remaining. I gave the area another pass using the rotary and then wiping down the area with alcohol. I spent 10min looking for scratches in the 2` x 2` area to look for any remaining sanding scratches, but couldn`t find any. As advertised, the LC PFW was able to remove deep sanding scratches, without causing any hazes and swirls.







    DA + Surbuf R-Series:



    After I completed the passenger side of the hood, I had a pretty good benchmark for the Surbuf pads. I utilized the Surbuf pads using the methods found in this thread here. I also used diluted alcohol to wipe down the working area after each pass and inspected the surface under the sun. Similar to the PFW + Rotary, the Surbuf + DA combo completely removed all the sanding scratches with just two passes. In my opinion, that was amazing, but also expected. Amazingly, the Surbuf pad and M105 finish very nicely without any nicks or scratches. In fact, the finish produced by the Surbuf pad is MUCH better than that produced by the orange cutting pad!!!! Keep in mind that the Surbuf R-Series pad is also designed for applying automotives waxes to automotive paint surfaces, according to the manufacturer! That explains why the M105 is able to finish nicely using the Surbuf pad. The Surbuf pad finishes very similar to the PFW. With that said, I would never use the Surbuf pads to apply any waxes.





    From my observation, the rate of cut using the PFW and the rotary is slightly quicker than the DA + Surbuf. However, the difference is extremely minimal. Both methods cut at such a similar rate, it was shocking. Another thing is that I was able to maximize the working time of M105 by utilizing Kevin`s prescribed method to work on the Surbuf pads. That increase in working time of the Surbuf pad compensates for its less aggressive pad material and rotational speed.







    One of the best features of the Surbuf pad is that it generates very little friction, allowing the DA to rotate almost at its maximum speed. The Surbuf pad also uses MUCH less product than the PFW pad. Unlike wool, the surbuf microfingers are extremely short, making them ideal to use with the DA.







    Another thing I notice is that the Surbuf pad generates LESS heat than the typical cutting FOAM pad on a DA. Using the PFW pad with the rotary at up to 2000rpm, the hood was a little warm to the touch, but cooler than expected. The PFW feels much more gentle to the touch than the traditional 4ply wool pad. I can imagine that the 4 ply wool pad to get quite hot at speeds of around 2000rpm.







    I think I like the Surbuf pads. At least they do not smell like sheep when you wash them!







    Anyway, here are some pictures (unfortunately the sun started to set when I begin taking pictures):




















































  12. #42

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    86,975
    Post Thanks / Like
    the_invisible- Welcome to Autopia! Heh heh, that was one great first post :xyxthumbs



    I`ll have to revisit the SurBuf pads. Your experiences mirrored those of Kevin Brown so closely that OK...I`m convinced.



    Though based on my not-satisfactory experiences on my Jag, I`ll still reserve them for serious correction only.

  13. #43

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    316
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator
    the_invisible- Welcome to Autopia! Heh heh, that was one great first post :xyxthumbs



    I`ll have to revisit the SurBuf pads. Your experiences mirrored those of Kevin Brown so closely that OK...I`m convinced.



    Though based on my not-satisfactory experiences on my Jag, I`ll still reserve them for serious correction only.


    Thanks for the warm welcome, man!



    I guess the Surbuf pads can be a hit or miss. While it is able to remove serious defects, including 1500 grit sanding marks, the result depends on many different factors.



    There are reasons why we do not see Surbuf pads being sold at places like Autogeek or Autodetailingsolutions, despite Surbuf`s effort to market the pads as a fit candidate for applying both fine-cut cleaners and finishing waxes.

  14. #44
    Barry Theal's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    4,058
    Post Thanks / Like
    What a great first post like Accumulator said. First off let me say this. Kevin Brown is a very humble man who`s teachings could change a lot if people listen to him. I think its nice to see that someone gave a good reveiw on his advice. I think this is a excellant review. I only hope Kevin gets a chance to see this. Anyway thanks for an awesome reveiw. Welcome to Autopia.

    Barry
    Barry E. Theal
    Presidential Details Of Lancaster PA
    Founder of Americana Global Inc.


  15. #45

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    86,975
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by the_invisible
    There are reasons why we do not see Surbuf pads being sold at places like Autogeek or Autodetailingsolutions, despite Surbuf`s effort to market the pads as a fit candidate for applying both fine-cut cleaners and finishing waxes.


    Heh heh, I was one person who got thoroughly bitten by trying to use the SurBuf pads with a mild product...messed things up but good. My take is that there are just some applications where these aren`t the right pad for the job.



    Now if they`d just stick with marketing them as being for serious correction only then maybe they could more easily break into the mainstream.



    Til then people can get them at TOL, at least in the smaller sizes. But I think Irene oughta modify the ad-copy lest other people get nipped the way I did.

 

 
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Surbuf Pad paired with M105 and PC is a defect killer!
    By Kevin Brown in forum Machine Polishing & Sanding
    Replies: 72
    Last Post: 11-21-2011, 10:51 PM
  2. Using Surbuf pad with M105 tips
    By gmblack3 in forum Machine Polishing & Sanding
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 09-23-2009, 11:27 AM
  3. SURBUF Pad paired with Meguiar`s M105 and PC is a defect killer!
    By imported_Kevin Brown in forum Machine Polishing & Sanding
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 08-29-2009, 12:35 PM
  4. Surbuf pads with M105 via PC another KBM
    By gmblack3 in forum Machine Polishing & Sanding
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 03-29-2009, 02:09 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •