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  1. #16
    salty's Avatar
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    Good read as always. Looking forward to more reviews.

  2. #17
    Kevin Brown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polished&Waxed
    Are these the same as the rubbish boys pads?


    They do not look to be the same.



    Quote Originally Posted by Polished&Waxed
    Is this a gonna be a good pad to use for the KBRM?
    No, these are best suited for use with a random-orbital.

    I did try one paired with the rotary without much success.

    If a very light touch was used and the fibers were not bent too much, it could work.



    OFF TOPIC TANGENT ALERT!



    In terms of defect removal, the rotary`s strength lies in its cutting power. In other words, the rotary is able to remove defects rapidly.

    Turn the rotational speed up, and it will force drive that buffing pad! Throw some back into it, and the rotary will rarely bog while it forces the pad through the paint. This is an extreme way of using a polisher and it is not necessarily the way things are done... just trying to get the point across. The rotary can do a lot of damage if not used correctly, though. A LOT of damage.



    This is why the Surbuf is so impressive when used with the aforementioned method on an R/O machine. It can actually rival the cutting ability of a rotary, yet it is a pretty safe combination to use. It is still removing paint, so caution is necessary!



    Rotary polishers do a pretty decent job polishing the paint, too (it`s just not that easy!)

    This is where oodles and oodles of hours behind that whirling surface modifying machine can help a guy deliver a perfect paint finish. Without an understanding of a rotary machine`s dynamics (and a pot full of patience), it is very difficult to create that `perfect` paint finish.



    Think about this:

    If held in one place, a rotating pad cannot attack a specific scratch at all angles like a random-orbital can. In order to replicate the endless attack angles that a random-orbital creates, the buffing pad would have to be constantly rolled over the scratch as the machine was being moved into different positions. Rolled... huh? :think:



    Think of a coin that is spinning on edge. As it slows, the coin starts to rotate or roll on the edge.



    The other way to attack a scratch at all angles would be to physically run the buffing pad across the scratch, then back up, change the approach angle, run across the scratch again, and on and on. See diagram:







    The rotary machine delivers best results when its power is used for removing paint until the targeted scratches are gone. Then, by using progressively finer polishes (possibly with less aggressive pads) the paint is restored. Of course, not all defects need to be removed using multiple applications.



    That said, the random-orbital is the champ when repetitive polishing of a surface is desired. When combined with a matched pad and polish, an entry level R/O paint polishing enthusiast has a real chance of rivaling the results a seasoned rotary user can deliver.



    Makes me want to cry because I spent a lot of time mastering the rotary. Just kidding (sort of).



    Quote Originally Posted by jdoria
    Should we expect these to clog quickly from priming and adding lubrication?
    Nope. They will remain pretty clean if you mist a bit of water or detail spray on the paint surface as you polish. The added liquid seems to keep the polish planted on the paint surface. This keeps the fibers wet, and if you do not use too much pressure, the microfingers will not clump together.



    A quick burst of compressed air is the best way to keep the buffing liquid from clumping on the pad.





    Quote Originally Posted by jdoria
    Will two 5.5" or 6" be sufficient for 2000 grit sized defect removal on a car the size of a 5 series BMW?
    I think they would last just fine, but keep in mind that the microfingers are very thin and somewhat fragile.

    The pads don`t self destruct or anything, but as they continually rub against the abrasive grains in the buffing liquid, they take a lot of abuse.



    Quote Originally Posted by jdoria
    Sorry- one more question. How are they on window glass and plastic lens covers?
    I think they should work really good on glass (probably better than any foam pad).

    Since the glass is so hard, the fingers would not `dig in` as they would on paint.

    Instead, they should glide along using a weedwacker effect, so to speak. Make sense?

    Plastic lens covers may show a bit of marring, but no more than paint.

  3. #18
    MarcHarris's Avatar
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    ^wow. like others have said plenty in the past: thank you. truly scientific data that allows operators full knowledge of what they`re doing/how things work so that we can all operate these various tools to a higher level.
    Marc Harris from AutoLavish Fine Automobile Care of Michigan

  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Brown
    No apology necessary... Are you joking?


    Heh heh, [heck] no I`m not kidding I blew you guys off regarding the SurBufs based on an insufficient knowledge base; my bad.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Brown
    The pads don`t self destruct or anything, but as they continually rub against the abrasive grains in the buffing liquid, they take a lot of abuse.


    That has me :think: as mine really did lose enough fibers that they had major bald spots. Hmm...the polish, more pressure than I thought I was applying...who knows but I gather that`s not normal.



    Oh, and that was a good point about the flex agent.



    Just gotta ask...is knowledge transfer a big part of what you do (outside Autopia)? If you`re not teaching/training people for a living...well, you`d sure be good at it.

  5. #20
    Kevin Brown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator
    Heh heh, [heck] no I`m not kidding I blew you guys off regarding the SurBufs based on an insufficient knowledge base; my bad.



    That has me :think: as mine really did lose enough fibers that they had major bald spots.


    Yeah, that has also happened to me.

    I probably treated the pads the exact same way you likely did... I used them as if they were just like foam. Turns out that a light touch yielded superior results.



    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator
    Just gotta ask...is knowledge transfer a big part of what you do (outside Autopia)? If you`re not teaching/training people for a living...well, you`d sure be good at it.


    No, but I really appreciate your compliment!

    I think that I interact with a lot of guys on the phone and through e-mail, so I try my best to simplify recommendations yet keep it thorough. I do enjoy writing about detailing and the related fields. It allows me to share the knowledge I have gained through watching, listening, and doing.



    A HUGE side benefit is that I have put several of my software programs to good use. I would have never learned how to create graphics and modify pictures had I not spent time on the forums.



    The best team I have ever seen teach a class related to our industry is the Dynamic Duo of Mike Pennington and Jason Rose. Of course, they are both knowledgeable, but their teaching and speech styles are so different. When they take turns at the helm of the class, it makes for an interesting and informative day. I took my first how-to class related to paint care at Meguiar`s. Mike Pennington was the instructor. He is a fantastic motivational speaker, very entertaining. Jason Rose has taught on an individual level, as well a being the instructor at a college. The best person I know that combines the skills of online writing, class teaching, and hands-on training? Mike Phllips.



    I hang with a small group of guys so I am certain there are other great teachers out there.

  6. #21
    juliom2's Avatar
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    And Kevin Brown happens to be one of the finest.

    Passion, Work and Dedication.

    Thanks for sharing!!!

  7. #22

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    Kevin where can you get these pads?

  8. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay J
    Kevin where can you get these pads?


    he gave the link in the first post

  9. #24

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    Try this link:

    Surbuf Products :: R Series



    They offer some different styles for woodworking, but I wouldn`t worry about them. The R Series is the kind you want.





    For some reason, it took a while for the pads to ship out. I ordered them back in November and it took a little over two weeks for them to arrive.

  10. #25

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    Awesome thread. Thank you Kevin for your time and great detail to explain these procedures your, it is greatly appreciated.

  11. #26

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    Id like to get ahold of some of these soon and give it a shot!
    Presidential Automotive Detailing - Tampa, FL - Click To See our latest Details and Customer Reviews

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  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Brown
    Yeah, that [SurBuf balding]has also happened to me. I probably treated the pads the exact same way you likely did... I used them as if they were just like foam. Turns out that a light touch yielded superior results...


    Maybe that *was* it...though I thought I was being pretty gentle :think: I`ll have to revisit them sometime, not on the Jag though





    .. I do enjoy writing about detailing and the related fields. It allows me to share the knowledge I have gained through watching, listening, and doing...




    Heh heh, you sound like me :xyxthumbs



    Oh, and yeah, you sure *are* getting the hang of your software!



    And nothing but praise for the two Meguiuar`s-Mikes from me too, even if I don`t always see eye-to-eye with them on everything.

  13. #28

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    I ordered 2 of the 7" on Sat and they arrived today via firstclass mail. They shipped from Bigfork, MT and I did not get charged sales tax in GA.



    I might give them a try tomorrow on a blue BMW, will see how bad the defects are first. If not they will get some use on a black land rover next week. I have seen the defects on that one and its not pretty.
    Bryan Burnworth - Atlanta Car Detailing - Peachstate Detail LLC

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  14. #29

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    Would these pads work well or be over kill on a highly oxidized car?

  15. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmblack3a



    I might give them a try tomorrow on a blue BMW,


    Cool.......



    I interested to see what you think about these pads with your methods........

 

 
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