Page 4 of 15 FirstFirst 123456789101112131415 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 224
  1. #46
    Dan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    NoVA
    Posts
    7,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    I agree Bob, it did seem like it was a loaded question from the get-go.

  2. #47
    CCH Auto Appearance, LLC C. Charles Hahn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Lansing, MI USA
    Posts
    8,783
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan
    I agree Bob, it did seem like it was a loaded question from the get-go.


    That`s precisely what I was getting at, but I was curious if the OP would admit his true motives or not.
    Charlie
    Automotive Appearance Specialist - Serving Greater Lansing, Michigan
    http://www.cchautoappearance.com/

  3. #48

    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    273
    Post Thanks / Like
    That is a great question, Charlie. It is clear to me that the OP has a very high opinion of his car, and has gone to the extent of having it resprayed right out of the dealership to a custom color. Not cheap if done correctly, and all for the looks of the vehicle. Look, I own a 1999 miata, so I cannot even fathom the money equation here, but it seems to me that he has put a lot of cash out already to get what he wants. Now he gets a sight unseen quote that seems high to him and instead of taking it in for a detailed (no pun intended) look-see, he questions the cost of the sight unseen quote. Even I know that $350 isn`t a pile of cash for a correction (and he seems to admit that it needs some correction - let alone adding OptiCoat to the equation), but if he has already had experience with a $350 detail, and was happy with the results, perhaps the advice would be to take it back there and ask for an OptiCOat treatment after their polish treatment? I can`t imagine a jet black that doesn`t need a decent amount of correction right out of the paint shop, even if it is a good shop. Is $60 per hour the issue? If it isn`t then perhaps there needs to be some meeting of the minds (during a physical meeting) as to how much correction the owner desires, and then an expert opinion on how many hours it will take to get to that level. You can only argue $60 per hour at this point, as the number of hours part of the equation is not known at this point, only estimated sight unseen.



    Sorry if I am sticking my nose in where it doesn`t belong.



    Jeff

  4. #49

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Macomb Michigan
    Posts
    2,088
    Post Thanks / Like
    This sure seems like a lot of hullabaloo over a simple quote. Quite honestly at this point, if I were David I would politely decline the business.



    My perspective (and I tell this to almost all my clients). If you are happy with the $350 detail that you got from XXX you will not see the value in my service. I then suggest (very politely) that they return to the shop that serviced them to their previous satisfaction as I do not wish to enter into an agreement that at the end of performing my work the customer is anything less than 100% happy because they cannot see/appreciate/understand the differences that sets the two apart



    It takes a special kind of person to appreciate the finer details.
    www.deep-gloss.com



    Deep Gloss Auto Salon / Fine Automobile Detailing - Metro Detroit`s Paint Correction Specialist



    For Discriminating Automobile Enthusiasts Who Demand The Best

  5. #50
    MarcHarris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    1,683
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Deep Gloss Auto Salon
    This sure seems like a lot of hullabaloo over a simple quote. Quite honestly at this point, if I were David I would politely decline the business.



    My perspective (and I tell this to almost all my clients). If you are happy with the $350 detail that you got from XXX you will not see the value in my service. I then suggest (very politely) that they return to the shop that serviced them to their previous satisfaction as I do not wish to enter into an agreement that at the end of performing my work the customer is anything less than 100% happy because they cannot see/appreciate/understand the differences that sets the two apart



    It takes a special kind of person to appreciate the finer details.




    Bingo. I don`t know what it is, but these guys from Michigan really know their stuff.



    I 100% agree with Jason`s remarks. I also agree with statements by Bob and others on page 4 which basically amount to the original post was basically a loaded question. Even if the work is performed for the original quoted price, I don`t see things ending well because as Jason of Deep Gloss added; if someone can`t see the difference, they`re not likely to be 100% happy. I know I`m not the only one here who much rather has worked on $1k+ jobs in which the owner states in the end that his/her only regret is not having the work done sooner. THAT`S what you want - not a price shopper.



    "If you earn business off of price alone, you`ll lose business off of price alone."
    Marc Harris from AutoLavish Fine Automobile Care of Michigan

  6. #51
    CCH Auto Appearance, LLC C. Charles Hahn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Lansing, MI USA
    Posts
    8,783
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by MarcHarris
    Bingo. I don`t know what it is, but these guys from Michigan really know their stuff.


    We`re the car capitol of the world for a reason, you know 1:
    Charlie
    Automotive Appearance Specialist - Serving Greater Lansing, Michigan
    http://www.cchautoappearance.com/

  7. #52

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,059
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by tdekany

    Now, I`d like to know what John Kleven charges for the same service as he is top notch.




    Thanks Thomas,





    We apply Matrix Micro Coatings, not the Opti Seal product, both are permanent, but since MMC provides a lifetime warranty to the customer it`s a much more expensive product. We charge $1295 for the coating, plus $75/hr. for paint correction. It`s really difficult to see by the pictures what is needed, I would probably need to pull the car into the shop and thoroughly inspect, but I could easily see 6-20+ hours being reasonable for a car of this size.







    John

  8. #53
    Keeper of the beautiful Jean-Claude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    1,526
    Post Thanks / Like
    Wow. I wish I had caught this thread earlier.



    OP, please take this with a bit of salt. You sound like a nightmare to deal with. You contact the detailer who obviously has a reputation(if it is Fermani it`s a no-brainer on the quality side) and request a specific service sight unseen. He gives you a price. Now you`re on the hunt for a reason that it`s not worth it.



    Before you know exactly how great or poor the car will look, you are unhappy with the price. Which makes me believe the end result is not as important as the actual cost(red flag). Whether you openly admit it or not, if it waddles has feather and quacks, it`s a duck. You don`t want to pay. That`s fair, you don`t have to and no one should judge you for that. There are things that are more than I am willing to spend my money on.



    This is the catch. You REALLY want to use this guy, for whatever reason. But you won`t live with the price....choose one or the other.



    What`s the deal? I will speak as if it is Fermani(ironic he hasn`t chimed in haha! -I`m kinda sharp like that). He does awesome work and he takes the worries out of the equation. One of the reasons that autopian detailers demand more for our work is that we remove the majority of the stress associated with having a really nice car left with a "stranger". He has his rate and despite what some shop is SD charges, he is worth it. Personally, I wouldn`t do that same job for less than $1500. Probably closer to $2,000. It`s hard work and the knowledge required to get it right the first time is not something to trust some guy with.



    I will be that guy that says, it`s worth it....if it`s indeed Fermani. If it`s someone I don`t know of I can`t say that.



    For the record, I know the guy but we aren`t interweb BFF`s or anything. His work speaks for himself. Now call him, schedule an appointment and leave him alone until he calls you and says come pick up your beautiful ride. Let him work his magic. You can send me a PM afterwards and thank me.
    Detailed Designs Auto Spa
    Professional Car Detailing Atlanta
    Authorized Modesta Installer
    Authorized CQuartz Finest Installer
    Paint Protection Film and Clear Bra Installation

  9. #54

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Bethlehem, PA
    Posts
    550
    Post Thanks / Like
    The price sounds about right to me. No offense, I would say you are not going to hear what you want from this thread. It`s hard to understand these extensive detail unless you truly perform them yourself. A ton of work goes into them, and the value is justified, and you can bet that the detailer is going to break his back and clean every little nook and cranny for you in those 28 hours. If you don`t want to pay the price, then I suggest you do it yourself and find out how much work really goes into. Even just polish 1 rim and see how long it takes you, as a beginner you say I can knock that rim out in an hour, that`s plenty of time. Then, 3 hours later you`re staring at the rim and frustrated that it needs more work.

  10. #55
    Forza Auto Salon David Fermani's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Troy, MI
    Posts
    12,534
    Post Thanks / Like
    Ok Kevin – I’ve patiently sat back and watched long enough at your failed attempt at assassinating my character that it’s time to give my side of the story. :tape2: I’ve let people give their take on things that were issued by this person given at 1 sided face value. I’d like to say thanks to the PM’s I’ve received regarding this issue. I would also like to give another BIG thanks to everyone that supported my pricing methods with this job. :thx It`s amazing how the majority of the posters here are all on the same page in regards to maintaining quality levels of detailing. That`s what being Autopian is all about!!:xyxthumbs I’ll explain 1st by saying that this guy gave me concerns from the time he posted his wheel thread and sought me out to help him with his wheels.:loco: Not only did he throw off the creepy vibe that his expectations were extra-high maintenance (which I can easily handle ), but after talking to him on the phone I had real concerns about the vehicle’s real condition. Red flags were being thrown immediately after he mentioned his 2010 BMW 6 Series just getting completely repainted (color change??) and a “detailer” in California recently did a detail on it. Not to mention he was also claiming that buffer swirls were starting to appear!!! :soscared: Geesh, if this isn’t a recipe for potential danger I don’t know what is?? :director: Regardless, this certainly isn’t the 1st time dealing with these concerns and I was all in for doing my best at making this vehicle’s paint/wheels as perfect as realistically possible. Even though you have every right to post a thread of your choice on this forum, I truly feel you’ve overstepped your boundaries by doing so in a reckless and poorly judged manner. Below is the timeline of events up until now that may assist viewers in passing final judgment about the OP’s shenanigans displayed here:





    FACTS:

    8/28 – You post your wheel thread



    8/29 – You PM me asking for suggestions for protecting and keeping the $7000 wheels on your 2010 BMW 6 Series looking perfect. You also state that there are no good detailers down here in S. Florida and you refuse to have anyone local touch your car. You also state that there “was not a single swirl” in your last Jet black 6 series. :tape2:



    8/31 – You claim your wheels (3 days later your last PM) are starting to “fog up” from driving them in the rain. I reply back requesting that you call me to discuss.



    9/8 – We speak via phone and you claim you need the wheels protected immediately. I tell you that I’m at least 2-3 weeks backed up and you PM’d me stating you’d like the wheels done sooner because you don’t want them “exposed to the elements”. You also write that if you let them “go (unprotected) another 3 weeks they`re going to look nothing like the gorgeous mirror finish I started with”??? You also state “Its literally getting down to the day, and I was already feeling *way* behind schedule by not having them sealed last week”??? You then state that you’re going to consider having your “guy” do them instead. I wait on you to schedule. We also talk about the problems you’re experiencing with your exterior paint. You claim you had the complete car repainted to a different color. You say it looks great, but there are buffer swirls starting to appear. I offer my correction services and discuss what the finish may need. I again give you a broad parameter of time frame based on your OCD and the fact that your car has aftermarket paint and has already been buffed twice. You don’t balk one bit at this time, but say you’ll have the wheels done 1st and need to reschedule for the exterior when I can dedicate more than 1 day one it. You understand.



    9/12 – You PM me back requesting that I schedule you in ASAP. This is also the 1st time you request what my rates are?? You also ask “Will Opti Coat change the appearance, or color depth, or shine of the wheel at all? If yes, how will it look different. I need my expectations set ahead of time so I know what I`m getting into”.

    (time out for an observation = does this person come off as your everyday picky customer or someone extremely anal retentive???)



    9/14 – You PM me and text me asking for a date to do the wheels. I call you back and schedule you for Sunday 9/25. I tell you that my rate is $60 per hour and it *could* take anywhere between 4-5 hours to remove, clean, polish, strip, Opti-Coat and reinstall. You are ok with this rate and time parameter. You will also wait for the wheels to be done or have me drop you off at the local shopping mall and pick you up when they’re done. Free of charge of course.



    9/15 - you text me cancelling our appointment because you forgot you’ll be on an overseas trip for 6 days. :doh: I call you and ask if you’d like to drop your car off prior and have me store it here (free) while you’re away. I also offer to drive you back to your condo in Miami (1+ hour away 1 way) or pick you up (free of course). I ask if you’re interested in having me detail the exterior of your vehicle while it’s at my place for an extended time. You seem somewhat open to this and will state you’ll get back to me to confirm. I no setting did I ever tell you it will take 20 hours to correct and seal the exterior of your car?!?! I simply gave you a ballpark parameter based on the facts you’ve shared prior. I certainly wasn’t going to sell myself short with all this sketchiness. I also tell you that the next 2 weekends are booked for me and that I might be able to detail your car after that at a friend’s place directly next door from your condo. This sounded good to you as well.



    9/17 – this is the PM you send me:



    Quote Originally Posted by DetailBurger
    Hi Dave -



    Wanted to address the issue of cost with you. Please see this thread:



    How to price for Opti-Coat service - Auto Geek Online Auto Detailing Forum



    Another guy on there says he charges about $75 for a complete wax and polish of the vehicle.



    Unfortunately at the rate you quoted me - a full day at $60 an hour (6 hours?) that equals $360 just to polish and seal the wheels.



    You mentioned 15 to 20 hours to do the car. That`s over $1,200.



    The most expensive detailer of high end automobiles in San Diego (where I just moved from) charged me $350 (his top dollar) to completely wash, wax, buff, and polish my car inside and out, from top to bottom. He said mine was more expensive at $350 because it was a jet black car.



    I absolutely hate lowballers, so I do not want to sound like one. But I do need a more realistic price for the work being done. If all these guys on the forum thread are charging $100-200 to seal an entire car with opti-coat .... then that should be a fair price, with a marginally less cost for doing the wheels.



    Please note that while I live in Trump Palace, I am only renting. I can not afford to purchase even the cheapest unit in this building, and am definitely not in the same income level as most people who live here.



    Let me know what you think.



    Kevin




    9/19 - I reply back to your PM telling you I don’t want to do your car in so many polite and respectful words. :nomore:





    9/26 (1:56 am) – You PM me back with this message:



    Quote Originally Posted by DetailBurger
    David -



    Apples and oranges goes both ways. You`re showing me detail price quotes for million dollar cars. You can`t compare a Lamborghini, or any of those other pictured $250,000+ vehicles to a BMW six series.



    The price for these extravagant cars (labeled "Exotics") owned by guys who toss $1,000 around like its pocket change is: "$350 and up".



    Not surprisingly, if you were to kick it down a notch, for a six series, you have exactly the price I told you I was given in San Diego:



    $350 flat fee for a full detail.



    Their price for a Lambo makes sense to me if you compare the price tags of the cars, liability issues, replacement of parts if you screw up, etc. .... *significantly* more expensive (nearly 15 times more expensive) per part.



    It`s good that you`re confident. Obviously there are different tiers of skill level. But you service a guys car who makes probably about $10 million a year and lives here in Trump. You`re talking to a guy (me) who makes $150,000 a year right now.



    A****** guy owns the $14 million dollar condo. I can only afford to rent one that is worth 14 times less than that.



    I dont know that its reasonable to charge me the same fee you charge a multi millionaire.



    Im not poor by any means. But this isnt a lamborghini. And I dont think nearly $1000 to seal my wheels is a reasonable price. I could ask on the forum, but I didnt want to piss you off or anything. I would like some other opinions, hopefully from guys who don`t know you personally.




    **Another exaggeration of $1000 to do his wheels???**:lie:



    **I wonder what happened in 2 minutes that you decided to change your mind and start a thread in an attempt to "piss me off". **:horn:



    **Keep in mind that on all 4 of the Detailer’s web-sites I linked, it didn’t say anything about having different rates for “exotics”. It clearly lists each person’s hourly rate for paint correction. ** :attention:





    9/26 (1:58) (2 minutes after sending me the above PM btw) – You post this thread basically exaggerating the truth in an attempt to make me look bad. No where did I ever say it would take “roughly 8 hours” to do your wheels!!?? I certainly didn’t tell you $1000 to coat them as you stated in your above PM either??? I would be happy to post a photo of the text where we confirm no more than 4-5 hours of labor(>$350) to do your wheels from start to finish. Why you’d lie about the price (almost three times as much time) makes zero sense and makes you look worse than you already do for posting this vindictive thread in the 1st place. :spit:









    Quote Originally Posted by DetailBurger
    1) Everyone who knows Dave and has responded here, thanks for your input, i know he`s a great guy, but I still dont think my car needs TWENTY HOURS of cleaning.


    I don’t “CLEAN” cars. And, I’m certain with how much of an OCD freak you are that your car is just about as “CLEAN” as it could get. :pound:



    Quote Originally Posted by DetailBurger
    3) More than a couple guys plainly said $1700 to clean and opticoat a brand new car is ridiculous. Yet my brand new BMW needs 20 hours.... ?

    My brain still isn`t registering why.


    Right, besides all these people not knowing the FACTS, your 2010 1 year old car isn’t “brand new”. Far from it I’d bet seeing that it already has been completely repainted, wet-sanded and buffed by some hack dealer body shop and then rehacked by another “Detailer” that couldn’t get it done in the 1st or 2nd time around. I’d say it’s far from “BRAND NEW”. With how much you’ve stretched the truth on this forum I wouldn’t be surprised if your car needed twice this much work just to pacify your poor choices thus far in your failed attempt at its preservation. :fish:





    Quote Originally Posted by DetailBurger
    After this thread I am sure Dave wont work on my car anyways. He`s probably pissed. But im sure I`ve burned this bridge with Dave. So I guess I screwed myself. Live and Learn.


    Correct. I refuse to do business with people like you and you were already denied service. :hand: Thank god :pray1: you’ve shown your true colors prior to me wasting time on your car. But, you already knew this loud and clear and this only shows your lack of social judgment by posting this thread. :drama:











    Quote Originally Posted by DetailBurger

    I should have had Dave view the vehicle before giving me his price quote. Because now, even without having seen a single photo of the car, he has told me to "Take it or leave it" with a 20 hour timeline.


    Sorry, but another lie. In no way prior to this thread did I ever say this. This time ultimatum is purely an exaggerated time frame from you. Also, photos show ZERO and no Detailer worth their weight would ever give a firm quote based on pictures anyways. :nono: Especially the lousy ones you’ve posted here. :photo::think:







    Bottom line; I have made a commitment to hone my craft to the highest level possible. I have worked with, shared information with, taught, and learned first-hand from such amazing detailers S. Florida Detailers as Todd Helme and Eddie Fuiza. Past my commitment to honing my skills, I remain steadfast in delivering the highest quality results possible, no matter what it takes. I only demand that my clients place the same pressure on me as I do myself, and their expectations for perfection are close to mine. I do not polish cars for 350 dollars to "perfection" that require having buffer trails removed at a later date. I offer a value for the services I perform, and I understand that it isn`t for everybody. :nono:
    Metro Detroit`s leader in cleaning, preserving & perfecting fine automobiles!

  11. #56

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    782
    Post Thanks / Like
    Someone just got owned...



    Sorry, just had to say it.

  12. #57

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,258
    Post Thanks / Like
    Great reply Dave.



    One thing that is reoccurring is the assumption that you quoted 20 hours for a new car. Your post here sums it up.



    Right, besides all these people not knowing the FACTS, your 2010 1 year old car isn’t “brand new”. Far from it I’d bet seeing that it already has been completely repainted, wet-sanded and buffed by some hack dealer body shop and then rehacked by another “Detailer” that couldn’t get it done in the 1st or 2nd time around. I’d say it’s far from “BRAND NEW”.


    With the repaint, sand, and buffing, who knows how much paint is left and what condition it is in. There is probably more damage from the poor polishing on JB paint in one year than if you got a new car and washed it incorrectly for 5 years

  13. #58
    mikenap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    2,257
    Post Thanks / Like
    I guess we all know the other side of the story now, and it`s a good one at that!:pop2:



    Probably won`t be seeing much more of D`Burger around these parts.:nomore:

  14. #59
    CCH Auto Appearance, LLC C. Charles Hahn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Lansing, MI USA
    Posts
    8,783
    Post Thanks / Like
    Now that`s what I call professional grade ownage!



    I said it in the first reply to this thread:



    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny Lil Detlr
    I`m just waiting for the other shoe to drop, here.


    Guess I can stop waiting. An entire shoe store just dropped :biggrin1:
    Charlie
    Automotive Appearance Specialist - Serving Greater Lansing, Michigan
    http://www.cchautoappearance.com/

  15. #60

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    28
    Post Thanks / Like
    I am amateur detailer, but I do know from doing my car that it takes time. I think $350 is about 5-7 hours of work, probably closer to 5 in an area like San Diego.



    What can you do in 5 hours:

    - Exterior wash

    - A quick one-step (ZAIO or something)

    - Maybe a spray wax

    - Engine quickly wiped down

    - Interior glossed over

    - Wheels cleaned and tires done



    That`s just a real quick detail, something I could do on a Saturday if I hustled. $350 is a good deal if they did a good job. But did they?



    Here`s the price list from the shop that did the OPs work: Auto Detailing and Car detailing specialists in San Diego - Detail Works a Auto Detailing Shop



    Some pics from their website:



    (I think I know how the buffer trails happened)





    (Is he buffing over dirt?)





    For a FULL `Autopian` detail, it does take time as stated. Even a newer car with minimal marring will take an easy cut pass, a polish pass, and a fine polish pass, then Opticoat. That will take a long time (10-15 hours?). Plus the initial wash, the middle wash, engine, interior.. damn another few hours. Now, to do the wheels and dress the wells, then opticoat them, that`s another long day.



    So the fees quoted by Dave seem reasonable to me (to answer post #1 by the OP). If that is prohibitively high, I would suggest that perhaps the OP does the work himself in order to learn the process and save a few bucks. Perhaps have Dave do the wheels and OC them since you seem concerned about that. You do the rest of the car minus the OC, just use wax, and keep practicing on it as needed until you get it perfect, then maybe OC yourself.



    All the info to do everything is right on here. And the tools/products are a click away.

 

 
Page 4 of 15 FirstFirst 123456789101112131415 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. David Fermani...
    By Garry Dean in forum Machine Polishing & Sanding
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-28-2012, 10:47 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •