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  1. #16

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    Thanks Dan! Didn`t know about AG VIP membership. Just subscribed. Thanks for the heads-up!

  2. #17
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    Like Clint Eastwood said in Magnum Force, " a man`s got to know his limitations". If you want a top level detailer to do your car, ya pays to play. Otherwise, there`s plenty of info here you`re welcome to read and DYI. It`s up to you, would you come out cheaper buying a polisher, pads, polish, Opti coat, etc and figure your time?? I can`t answer, it may be, but that`s your call. I certainly don`t think 60 a hour is unreasonable at all. The shop that works on lawn care equipment down the road from me charges 80. I don`t get me started on HVAC guys...
    All I have in this world is my word, and my balls and I don`t break `em for no one, you understand?"

  3. #18
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    It`s all depends on who you go to and what their prices are. I can name off a few fellow detailers that are $80-$100/hr. So with that being said. you can price shop all you want. but with a $75k BMW. I would Quality shop instead.
    Doing it BIG!

  4. #19

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    So happy to see large volume sellers de-valuing a product worth every penny of 60-80 dollars... or not.







    Keep in mind you are paying for 2-3 years worth of paint protection after a corrective detail. I think 1700 dollars is a lot of money and as the guys say, you pay to play with experienced detailers. That said, I do not think 300 - 400 is out of line for professional application of OptiCoat considering it literally will only need washing and occasional spot claying.



    Another thing to consider is the time he would take on something like your wheels.. they are hard to work on and get perfect. And with detail oriented detail work you can burn 20 minutes trying to manually clean the back of a spoke for example.. so I do understand this.



    I get people all the time(who I think don`t understand the differences) who get angry at me for my pricing. But they don`t really understand they are paying for a compulsively experienced person to perform permanent changes on their vehicles using a myriad of highly priced products. Like Bryan, I don`t get insulted.
    ...they call me Mike



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  5. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by dschia
    Any idea how much time does detail work spend on your car?
    Detail Works had my car from 8am until about 4pm at $350 and the car looked 1,000% brand new perfection. So I guess I can use that as my guideline. That is 8 hours with most likely an hour lunch break? LOL. So 7 hours ... $350 .... is my experience, and why I am having difficulty with 20 hours $1,700.



    I think is a matter of how much time needed to get the job done rather what car cost what.
    Of course. I agree. But someone can take 40 hours to clean a car if they want to. Keep that in mind. As for how much time will be needed? Its a new car. I`ve driven it for 4 weeks. So that should give you a decent idea of how much cleaning is needed prior to the detailing. I dont want to be quoted 20 hours when it may really only need 7 hours of work. That`s why I am asking if 20 hours and $1700 is reasonable for a brand new car needing opti coat.



    Unfortunately you didn`t answer the question you quoted. Is $1,700 a fair price for what is involved?



    Please note... this is a BRAND NEW CAR. It rolled off the lot 1 month ago. It has a brand new paint job that was completed 2 months ago. This isnt a 1980 BMW that needs extensive work. Its brand new. Not a single scuff or chip on it, anywhere. The wheels are also 1 month old. Brand new. I just wanted to get my rims and paint sealed. As part of this, the items need minor cleaning and polishing from only 4 weeks of driving. Cost should not be a mystery.

  6. #21

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    $1700 is excessive for a new car regardless of who does it...period.

  7. #22
    Rasky's Auto Detailing RaskyR1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetailBurger
    Detail Works had my car from 8am until about 4pm at $350 and the car looked 1,000% brand new perfection. So I guess I can use that as my guideline. That is 8 hours with most likely an hour lunch break? LOL. So 7 hours ... $350 .... is my experience, and why I am having difficulty with 20 hours $1,700.





    Of course. I agree. But someone can take 40 hours to clean a car if they want to. Keep that in mind. As for how much time will be needed? Its a new car. I`ve driven it for 4 weeks. So that should give you a decent idea of how much cleaning is needed prior to the detailing. I dont want to be quoted 20 hours when it may really only need 7 hours of work. That`s why I am asking if 20 hours and $1700 is reasonable for a brand new car needing opti coat.



    Unfortunately you didn`t answer the question you quoted. Is $1,700 a fair price for what is involved?



    Please note... this is a BRAND NEW CAR. It rolled off the lot 1 month ago. It has a brand new paint job that was completed 2 months ago. This isnt a 1980 BMW that needs extensive work. Its brand new. Not a single scuff or chip on it, anywhere. The wheels are also 1 month old. Brand new. I just wanted to get my rims and paint sealed. As part of this, the items need minor cleaning and polishing from only 4 weeks of driving. Cost should not be a mystery.


    Posting a picture of the paint condition in direct light could help us better determine if it needs 20hrs of correction, regardless if it`s new or not. I don`t know who worked on it before but there is the possibility they instilled holograms too. Also, is it a brand new car, or is the paint just new? You state both above so it`s a little confusing.



    Some thing like this or even better would be in direct sun.


  8. #23

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    $1700 is excessive for a new car regardless of who does it...period.
    Okay well there seems to be two relevant factors here:



    1) The fact that its a brand new car

    2) The fact that I was quoted up to 20 hours of work sight-unseen.



    I should have started this thread pointing out that its a brand new car. I apologize for not doing that. Its probably the most relevant issue in my reason for asking about the price.



    Here are pictures taken of the vehicle a week or two ago. And a picture of the Wheel that needs sealing taken a day ago.



    It`s current condition.











    Is it a brand new car or just a new paint job?
    It`s both. I purchased the new car and had it painted to the color I wanted at the time of purchase. Dealer added $ to the tag price for me. Everything is 100% brand new.



    Posting a picture of the paint condition in direct light could help us better determine if it needs 20hrs of correction, regardless if it`s new or not.
    It definitely doesn`t need 20 hours of correction. But the 20 hours was for both washing, polishing, and Opti-Coating ... not just corrections.



    The *only* factor here is that I told the detailer that after a couple washes, I started noticing buffer marks from the detailer. So he is aware he will need to have those taken out, but I know from personal experience that doesn`t take very long. The car is in 1,000% perfect condition aside from this.



    I guess the real issue is I should not have been quoted sight-unseen. Anyone who gives me a price without seeing the car, and that price happens to be insanely high - makes me feel taken advantage-of. That`s why I started this thread. He tells me his price is reasonable. And when im ready to accept a reasonable price, I can contact him. Yet he`s never even seen the car and he`s quoting me 20 hours of work on it. Something does not seem right about that.

  9. #24

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    I have no idea who the detailer is or what the car`s condition is.



    However, I will play devils advocate very quickly.





    I have quoted a range sight unseen because of 1. the person`s distance from me 2. the vehicle and how it was described. Many times as a detailer we see, on a regular basis, cars that need upwards of 400-1000 dollars worth of corrective work rolling right out of the showroom because of poor factory finishing and especially because of dealership "detailers". We have also seen repaints, showcars, custom builds that all require a ton of work even after the "re-do" simply because just because the car is of "X" age doesn`t mean its perfect.



    Perhaps he was trying to give you something to expect at the very high end of the range?



    BTW the sunlight picture of the hood is not revealing at all for defect inspection.



    I am only playing devil`s advocate here based on my experience, not trying to question you or the detailer.







    If you want to be sure and feel better, and get a real feel for the detailer to whether he is burning you or not, set up a consult with him to see the car and inspect it. Problem solved, and that way you can express your concerns to him. I would otherwise make sure it is easy for him to inspect. Let us know how this goes.
    ...they call me Mike



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  10. #25
    Rasky's Auto Detailing RaskyR1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetailBurger
    Okay well there seems to be two relevant factors here:



    1) The fact that its a brand new car

    2) The fact that I was quoted up to 20 hours of work sight-unseen.



    I should have started this thread pointing out that its a brand new car. I apologize for not doing that. Its probably the most relevant issue in my reason for asking about the price.



    Here are pictures taken of the vehicle a week or two ago. And a picture of the Wheel that needs sealing taken a day ago.



    It`s current condition.









    It`s both. I purchased the new car and had it painted to the color I wanted at the time of purchase. Dealer added $ to the tag price for me. Everything is 100% brand new.





    It definitely doesn`t need 20 hours of correction. But the 20 hours was for both washing, polishing, and Opti-Coating ... not just corrections.



    The *only* factor here is that I told the detailer that after a couple washes, I started noticing buffer marks from the detailer. So he is aware he will need to have those taken out, but I know from personal experience that doesn`t take very long. The car is in 1,000% perfect condition aside from this.



    I guess the real issue is I should not have been quoted sight-unseen. Anyone who gives me a price without seeing the car, and that price happens to be insanely high - makes me feel taken advantage-of. That`s why I started this thread. He tells me his price is reasonable. And when im ready to accept a reasonable price, I can contact him. Yet he`s never even seen the car and he`s quoting me 20 hours of work on it. Something does not seem right about that.


    If you are seeing buffer trails from the previous detailer it will likely need at least 2 corrections steps to remove them and finish down perfectly. On a jet black BMW you`re probably looking at 8-10hrs just wash, clay and do 2 polishing steps to the paint. Then you will want to add a good 2-3hrs for the additional time to prep and apply the coating, and given how intricate those wheels are 1-2 hrs per wheel is not to far off IMO, considering you have to remove, clean, polish, coat, re-install and torque to factory specs. If there are any deep scratches (RIDS) they may require an additional correction step too.





    With that in mind this could easily be $1200+ job for a pro detailer.



    If you have some time here are a few good article related to the cost of detailing and the difference between high volume work and high end detailer work.



    What is a “Full Detail� – Detailed Image



    The difference a Professional Detailer can make. – Detailed Image



    Game-Changing New Detailing Technology Revealed! – Detailed Image

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetailBurger
    Okay well there seems to be two relevant factors here:



    1) The fact that its a brand new car

    2) The fact that I was quoted up to 20 hours of work sight-unseen.



    It definitely doesn`t need 20 hours of correction. But the 20 hours was for both washing, polishing, and Opti-Coating ... not just corrections.



    The *only* factor here is that I told the detailer that after a couple washes, I started noticing buffer marks from the detailer. So he is aware he will need to have those taken out, but I know from personal experience that doesn`t take very long. The car is in 1,000% perfect condition aside from this.



    I guess the real issue is I should not have been quoted sight-unseen. Anyone who gives me a price without seeing the car, and that price happens to be insanely high - makes me feel taken advantage-of.


    I`ll just reiterate the fact that a new car does not mean perfect. I have seen $250K+ cars in a showroom totally swirled. This sounds like the case as you are already beginning to see holograms after a few washes. It was just covered up, not truly corrected.



    It is not uncommon to spend 15-20 hours for a wash, clay, correct, polish... even on a garage queen in good condition. Add to that the time to properly prep for and apply the Opti-coat and the time doesn`t seem unreasonable.



    As for quoting a price without seeing the car; it is common practice to quote high when insufficient info is provided. Your opinion of "1000% perfect" has little merit to a detailer. That is not because they don`t trust you, but rather because too often we hear "My car is in pretty good shape" when in fact it looks like a family of 4 has been living in it and the person who says "It`s in really bad shape" often has very high standards and a little dust on the dash and a footprint on the floor mat bothers them.



    The only way to clear the expectations is to take the car to the detailer. If you don`t like the price, shop around. I`m assuming you did that when you bought the car. You won`t hurt his feelings. Just keep in mind what many here have said; you are paying for experience and quality. With Opti-coat you don`t want to have it done by someone without the experience or you may find yourself living with the imperfect results or paying A LOT more to have it fixed and done right.

  12. #27
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    Hate to say it, but I`m not seeing how this is incredibly crazy of a quote. All things are not equal, and while I`d love to say you always get what you pay for, that`s not always the case, and I`m guessing this is the OP`s number one issue: will he be getting what he pays for with a price that seems much higher than what he`s seen in the past.



    I`d like to begin addressing this by needing to point out that $350 is so incredibly low, I wouldn`t trust it. The fact that this is a "detail shop" tells me a lot as a professional, mainly that you have absolutely no idea who will perform the work on the vehicle. In some ways, you`re paying $350 for a mystery service. Recommended by tuning shops? What the hell do tuning shops know about paint care and proper detailing? You might as well get an Optometrist recommendation from someone that sells sun glasses or a Podiatrist recommendation from your local footlocker: that`s not to say they`re not able to recommend places, it`s just pointing out that you`re getting advice from a company / individual that might not know the content they`re attempting to judge as well as you might think.



    Giving estimates over the phone, over the internet, or any other medium in which you can`t truly judge a car makes things tricky. Quote high and people might think you`re there to scam extra dollars away. Quote low and you run the risk of shorting yourself, or making a phone call during the detailing to inform an owner that they`re be needing to pay you a bunch extra: not a good situation to be in either way. If you`re concerned with the amount of time the detailer in question has asked for to complete work on your car, I`d recommend you talk directly to him or her and find out exactly what will be done, and how they concluded the amount of hours they did. A quality detailer should be able to break things down very easily. If they can`t, then something is surely up and you are right to be worried.



    The sticker price, badge type, and model of your vehicle means NOTHING aside from potential known issues. I don`t care how much you paid for a vehicle nor what it means to you: you`re paying for my expertise and time. Come up to Michigan and I`ll gladly work on your BMW, Maserati, Ferrari, Geo, Daewoo, or Chrylser for the same rate if you choose to hire me. Your badge means nothing. Another owner`s badge means nothing. My only issue with exotics and supercars is build quality and funky angles and delicate materials that often means specialized slow-going work. I just finished a 2005 Carrera GT, and while it`s rare to have to spend 30+ hours with two guys (60+ man-hours), a delicate carbon fiber finish that`s completely covered in DA sanding marks from the factory added a lot to our work load. If the car was a 1-off custom made body on a Geo Metro... the bill would likely have been nearly the same. If anything, you should be worried if someone has sliding scale pricing that is based off your vehicle`s retail value. Imagine going to the doctor`s office and they charge you extra simply because of your tax bracket or the vehicle you drive. NO company should work this way.



    All in all, the price is a little higher than I would have quoted you (most Opti-coat applications have ranged from $800-1500 for us), but I`m not in the same market. If you are in South Florida, it might not be over priced at all. Don`t forget you`re paying for a service: no a product.



    Last but not least, Opti-Coat is certainly the way to go for durability in my experience: far better than CQuartz.
    Marc Harris from AutoLavish Fine Automobile Care of Michigan

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcHarris
    Hate to say it, but I`m not seeing how this is incredibly crazy of a quote. All things are not equal, and while I`d love to say you always get what you pay for, that`s not always the case, and I`m guessing this is the OP`s number one issue: will he be getting what he pays for with a price that seems much higher than what he`s seen in the past.



    I`d like to begin addressing this by needing to point out that $350 is so incredibly low, I wouldn`t trust it. The fact that this is a "detail shop" tells me a lot as a professional, mainly that you have absolutely no idea who will perform the work on the vehicle. In some ways, you`re paying $350 for a mystery service. Recommended by tuning shops? What the hell do tuning shops know about paint care and proper detailing? You might as well get an Optometrist recommendation from someone that sells sun glasses or a Podiatrist recommendation from your local footlocker: that`s not to say they`re not able to recommend places, it`s just pointing out that you`re getting advice from a company / individual that might not know the content they`re attempting to judge as well as you might think.



    Giving estimates over the phone, over the internet, or any other medium in which you can`t truly judge a car makes things tricky. Quote high and people might think you`re there to scam extra dollars away. Quote low and you run the risk of shorting yourself, or making a phone call during the detailing to inform an owner that they`re be needing to pay you a bunch extra: not a good situation to be in either way. If you`re concerned with the amount of time the detailer in question has asked for to complete work on your car, I`d recommend you talk directly to him or her and find out exactly what will be done, and how they concluded the amount of hours they did. A quality detailer should be able to break things down very easily. If they can`t, then something is surely up and you are right to be worried.



    The sticker price, badge type, and model of your vehicle means NOTHING aside from potential known issues. I don`t care how much you paid for a vehicle nor what it means to you: you`re paying for my expertise and time. Come up to Michigan and I`ll gladly work on your BMW, Maserati, Ferrari, Geo, Daewoo, or Chrylser for the same rate if you choose to hire me. Your badge means nothing. Another owner`s badge means nothing. My only issue with exotics and supercars is build quality and funky angles and delicate materials that often means specialized slow-going work. I just finished a 2005 Carrera GT, and while it`s rare to have to spend 30+ hours with two guys (60+ man-hours), a delicate carbon fiber finish that`s completely covered in DA sanding marks from the factory added a lot to our work load. If the car was a 1-off custom made body on a Geo Metro... the bill would likely have been nearly the same. If anything, you should be worried if someone has sliding scale pricing that is based off your vehicle`s retail value. Imagine going to the doctor`s office and they charge you extra simply because of your tax bracket or the vehicle you drive. NO company should work this way.



    All in all, the price is a little higher than I would have quoted you (most Opti-coat applications have ranged from $800-1500 for us), but I`m not in the same market. If you are in South Florida, it might not be over priced at all. Don`t forget you`re paying for a service: no a product.



    Last but not least, Opti-Coat is certainly the way to go for durability in my experience: far better than CQuartz.


    Incredible post Marc!



    If I could justify things a little more.



    I think the fact of the matter here is money. There is a price for everything. Depending on who you get your services from. Look at it this way, you just made an investment of $75,000. I can buy a nice small house in my area for that, but in Florida is an everyday car. Still 75 grand is 75 grand. Opticoat is a permant coating and as such would be a great investment for you. The biggest price factor here is the labor charge. Hours spent. Do you really want some one to rush the job or take there time and do it right? Also you have to look at it this way. $1700 is only 2.2% of the total investment. That together seems to be a rather small percent to make the car perfect and protected. For what it`s worth $1700 for a detail is a rather small price to pay depending on who you talk to. Case in point below.







    In case your wondering that for a little more work, but just a point of what some are willing to pay.
    Barry E. Theal
    Presidential Details Of Lancaster PA
    Founder of Americana Global Inc.


  14. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcHarris
    Hate to say it, but I`m not seeing how this is incredibly crazy of a quote. All things are not equal, and while I`d love to say you always get what you pay for, that`s not always the case, and I`m guessing this is the OP`s number one issue: will he be getting what he pays for with a price that seems much higher than what he`s seen in the past.



    I`d like to begin addressing this by needing to point out that $350 is so incredibly low, I wouldn`t trust it. The fact that this is a "detail shop" tells me a lot as a professional, mainly that you have absolutely no idea who will perform the work on the vehicle. In some ways, you`re paying $350 for a mystery service. Recommended by tuning shops? What the hell do tuning shops know about paint care and proper detailing? You might as well get an Optometrist recommendation from someone that sells sun glasses or a Podiatrist recommendation from your local footlocker: that`s not to say they`re not able to recommend places, it`s just pointing out that you`re getting advice from a company / individual that might not know the content they`re attempting to judge as well as you might think.



    Giving estimates over the phone, over the internet, or any other medium in which you can`t truly judge a car makes things tricky. Quote high and people might think you`re there to scam extra dollars away. Quote low and you run the risk of shorting yourself, or making a phone call during the detailing to inform an owner that they`re be needing to pay you a bunch extra: not a good situation to be in either way. If you`re concerned with the amount of time the detailer in question has asked for to complete work on your car, I`d recommend you talk directly to him or her and find out exactly what will be done, and how they concluded the amount of hours they did. A quality detailer should be able to break things down very easily. If they can`t, then something is surely up and you are right to be worried.



    The sticker price, badge type, and model of your vehicle means NOTHING aside from potential known issues. I don`t care how much you paid for a vehicle nor what it means to you: you`re paying for my expertise and time. Come up to Michigan and I`ll gladly work on your BMW, Maserati, Ferrari, Geo, Daewoo, or Chrylser for the same rate if you choose to hire me. Your badge means nothing. Another owner`s badge means nothing. My only issue with exotics and supercars is build quality and funky angles and delicate materials that often means specialized slow-going work. I just finished a 2005 Carrera GT, and while it`s rare to have to spend 30+ hours with two guys (60+ man-hours), a delicate carbon fiber finish that`s completely covered in DA sanding marks from the factory added a lot to our work load. If the car was a 1-off custom made body on a Geo Metro... the bill would likely have been nearly the same. If anything, you should be worried if someone has sliding scale pricing that is based off your vehicle`s retail value. Imagine going to the doctor`s office and they charge you extra simply because of your tax bracket or the vehicle you drive. NO company should work this way.



    All in all, the price is a little higher than I would have quoted you (most Opti-coat applications have ranged from $800-1500 for us), but I`m not in the same market. If you are in South Florida, it might not be over priced at all. Don`t forget you`re paying for a service: no a product.



    Last but not least, Opti-Coat is certainly the way to go for durability in my experience: far better than CQuartz.


    100%on the money Marc.



    As auto aesthetica said. If I have to quote a car without seeing it I will ALWAYS quote on the high side. Every owner says " I want it perfect and right now the paint isn`t too bad to start off with" yet, on arrival and my 1st chance to see the paint it almost always is in terrible shape.
    www.deep-gloss.com



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  15. #30

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    Barry made the point I make to a lot of customers and the relationship between them. A given percentage of total price of the vehicle is completely reasonable to its care.



    Typically specialist car owners are familiar with the mechanical issues associated with upkeep of a vehicle and as such, mass produced cars unmolested before delivery typically require a less work than a make like AM or Ferrari. Typically if its a mechanical issue, it is then a precision issue as well and most supercar owners don`t bat an eyelash at a price to repair something mechanical especially as they know dealerships charge what they charge for a reason.. As such our trade is one that DOES require precision and absolutely requires a level of experience and continuing learning to stay sharp and provide excellence.



    Those who been around know require major refinishing on exotics(love the flaky black unside paint as well), ironically if they are untouched.. ends up being a percentage of investment to repair then further to maintain the finish of the vehicles.



    I think 1700 dollars is alot for the non-enthusiast who just drives a car but as a detailer I would not hesitate to quote it or give an idea of a 4 figure detail if I hadn`t seen the car based on what my previous experience tells me of a Jet Black BMW in the past.. If it requires that work and the detailer has proven that his results justify that price..then thats what the quote will be. If the car is truly nearly perfect, then any detailer worth his weight in car shampoo will adjust it accordingly.





    ...which again is why you can`t fault him for sight unseen quotes. The easiest way to eliminate this hassle is to simply schedule an inspection with him/her.
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