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  1. #136
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    No, you only turned a simple detailing quote into a fishing story of epic proportion. After hearing Dave`s side of the story it`s pretty obvious a reasonable (yes, I said reasonable) quote was blown up into "IT WAS THIS BIG!!!" and taken completely out of context. Next time you ask for second opinions on something, make sure the details you`re sharing are accurate and TAKE THE OPINIONS YOU`RE GIVEN rather than letting them pass through one ear and out the other. I`m sure you`ll find a great local shop that will give you the same value and 1000% brand new perfect results you`re used to from "The Best Detailers in SoCal". I wouldn`t want your business.



    -Tim (AutoLavish)



    BTW, here`s a link to the true two best SoCal detailers:



    Envious Auto Detailing | Orange County, CA - Home

    Superior Shine Mobile Auto Detailing, Creating shine since 1989, WE COME TO YOU!
    Marc Harris from AutoLavish Fine Automobile Care of Michigan

  2. #137
    Keeper of the beautiful Jean-Claude's Avatar
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    "The *only* factor here is that I told the detailer that after a couple washes, I started noticing buffer marks from the detailer. So he is aware he will need to have those taken out, but I know from personal experience that doesn`t take very long. The car is in 1,000% perfect condition aside from this.



    I guess the real issue is I should not have been quoted sight-unseen. Anyone who gives me a price without seeing the car, and that price happens to be insanely high - makes me feel taken advantage-of. That`s why I started this thread. He tells me his price is reasonable. And when im ready to accept a reasonable price, I can contact him. Yet he`s never even seen the car and he`s quoting me 20 hours of work on it. Something does not seem right about that."




    I did not mean to suggest you were trying to get nasty. I meant, at this specific point, what you said lit a fire under a lot of professional detailer`s rear ends. If I read everything right, you asked him for a price sight unseen and then complained about being given a price sight unseen. Come here and ask if a price is fair? Shoot man, do a search, tons of people do this and no one is given grief. Thing is, once you said you knew it didn`t require x-hours or his price was unreasonable, it ignited the said fire.



    From your response, you sound as if your intentions were/are not bad. But what you said, or rather, how you said it, was a bit messed up. Now a bunch of guys, who, at some point has battled with being considered nothing more than glorified car washers and charge too much for our years of back-friggin-breaking experience is a bit aggravated.





    Quote Originally Posted by DetailBurger
    It never got nasty. I never had a nasty bone in my body through this entire process. I was asking if the quote I got was fair. I never commented on Dave or his ability to do good work. In fact I left his name out intentionally, so this would not reflect on him. That was an act of kindness on my part.



    The moderator changed my title thread to include Dave`s name. Because he is apparently trying to cause trouble and make me look like a jerk. I did not, and would not do that. Try creating a thread and changing the title by editing it. You can`t. It will not let you. So there is proof that I did not do it. What does that tell you about Dave and the moderators here?



    Look at my posts saying thank you to everyone, and feeling bad because I felt awkward asking for other opinions. I am not usually comfortable asking people other opinions. I didnt want Dave to think I was undermining him. But asking around after receiving a quote is normal. All of you have done it. And I never got nasty. Sorry. If you thought I did, you need to go back and read the entire thread.



    I may have taken issue with certain principals, but that had nothing to do with Dave, the quality of his work, or his quote. It was related to principals like whether I should be charged the same as a guy who owns a Lambo. Etc. I received responses from "Marc" and said "Thank you" to him, and told him his reply was "On point".



    So ... no. There is no exuse for harassing texts being sent to my phone by Dave Fermani, nor the moderator here changing my Avatar to Donald Trump. Quite honestly, I know the difference between right and wrong. And those actions far surpass "inappropriateness" .... by about a hundred miles.





    Detailed Designs Auto Spa
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  3. #138

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    Sorry. With all due respect, I dont agree that this got "THIS BIG" .... or anything youre saying.



    1) I got a quote

    2) It seemed a little high

    3) I made the stupid mistake of asking if a quote was fair on a forum where a bunch of Dave`s buddies post.



    That was my mistake.



    Had I asked on another forum where nobody knows dave, there wouldnt be any personal feelings getting hurt. or "defending our buddy". Or demonizing, or childish fighting. LOL ... its truly almost humorous to me to be honest. Im kind of blown away that everyone *else* made this such a big deal.



    I was just asking for opinions on a quote.



    Dave details the car of the owner of this site. So i am not surprised that suddenly my posts are being edited, my title edited, my avatar is changing.



    All i was doing was asking if a quote was fair. I did nothing else. I remained respectful. I retained and conveyed opinions. I accepted correction (even from you mark, saying thank you and telling you that you`re on point).



    Sorry. I dont see what I did wrong.



    However this (below)? This is wrong. Childish. Unprofessional. Out of control inappropriate. Disagree? Then lets agree to disagree.








  4. #139
    mikenap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetailBurger
    i like to pay people what they are worth, but I have no experience in this industry, so I was asking.





    I did take issue with, and debate certain principals, like whether I should pay the same as a Lambo owner.


    Here`s the issue, and I believe it`s a fair assessment. You had your mind made up before you ever posted this thread. You were told by SEVERAL pros over SEVERAL pages how time consuming this level of detailing is. But you had it stuck in your head that your car was "perfect." With some exceptions, as Marc said. It was explained repeatedly that sight-unseen quotes are often a range. But then again, your car was "perfect." It was also pointed out that David charges hourly, whether for a Lambo, a BMW 6-series, or a Kia Rio. But your "brand new car is perfect." See where I`m going?



    It seems all you really wanted was for someone to tell you "you`re right, it`s too high" so you could go back and argue price. It was OVERWHELMINGLY stated that a 20-hour detail, ON TOP of one including highly-polished HREs, was a reasonable time frame. Now, if you really pay people what they are worth, buy yourself a calculator and go crazy with it. It all keeps coming back to the same thing. Time x labor rate = $$$$$. It hasn`t changed.



    The truth is you wanted David`s quality but didn`t want his prices. There`s no ducking it.

  5. #140

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    As a third party consumer, I completely agree that you have the right to disagree with two components of the quote - time and cost per hour. If it is cost per hour, asking for another cost per hour is valid and can be declined by the detailer. If it is the number of hours, I am concerned that you (D viewed it as a firm time estimate, while Dave likely did not, but based upon his experience (one of the things you are paying him for) and your description (somewhat contradictory) he did not. It is typical in the industry to get an evaluation, talk over the work and level of correction required, etc. and either agree on a price or walk away. It is really a rather simple equation, and process, and it should be done with a minimal number of assumptions. You asked him to quote with a lot of assumtions and he obviously doesn`t feel that your assumptions were correct - ergo perhaps the proper resonse from Dave should have been "I`d need to see it to evaluate it personally and dscuss the level of correction". I tend to think he is more correct than you are about the time required (considering your posts on the HRE front) and that the level of correction to get it "perfect" takes far more time than you might think unless you have ever done this before yourself. It is a shame that this has gotten to this level of rhetoric actually.



    Jeff

  6. #141

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    Yes I was feeling that the price was high. So what?



    I never claimed to know what I am talking about.



    I was asking.



    I am seriously not getting what the problem is.



    If I was a d*ck about it? Then okay. You could fault me for being a d*ck.



    I was polite. Professional. Thankful. Kind. Humble. Accepted correction. And at the end - I said it looks like $1700 was fair.



    Exactly *WHATS THE PROBLEM* ?



    The problem in my opinion? Dave is apparently also a modertor here, and his now abusing his powers. He`s editing my posts (see below). He changed the title of this thread. He changed my avatar .



    You really have no problem with that? But you`re going to rattle on about me asking for opinions on a quote?



    Sorry. We live in different universes.



    What I see below "TRUMPS" (sorry for the pun) anything I came remotely close to doing wrong.



    mabye you dont aree. Lets agree to disagree. Im blown away by this ...






  7. #142
    CCH Auto Appearance, LLC C. Charles Hahn's Avatar
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    Man! Look what happens when I go away for a few hours.... this thread EXPLODED!



    Quote Originally Posted by DetailBurger
    Dave details the car of the owner of this site.


    Funny, how does he manage that? This site is owned by a company in California, where the owner is based.... yet Dave is in South Florida....



    Sorry. I dont see what I did wrong.


    Go back and re-read the PMs and conversations you had with David about the vehicle`s condition and what he told you about the work he was going to do for you. Then read the version you posted in this thread. Do you not see the discrepancies? THAT is what you did wrong.
    Charlie
    Automotive Appearance Specialist - Serving Greater Lansing, Michigan
    http://www.cchautoappearance.com/

  8. #143

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    How does he do that?
    I dont know. Look at the picture below, and you tell me how he did it.



    Dave told me on the phone that hte owner of Autopia lives in Miami Beach. Or he has a condo here at least. And Dave also told me that he details his car.



    So either dave is lying, and the picture below is imaginary, or your information is wrong.







    Go back and re-read the PMs and conversations you had with David about the vehicle`s condition and what he told you about the work he was going to do for you. Then read the version you posted in this thread. Do you not see the discrepancies? THAT is what you did wrong.
    What? I am not following your logic. I wrote something to Dave in a PM about the condition of my car? And it was different than what I post in my posts? Like what? I forgot to mention in my post that the car was brand new. So I went back and added that to the first post. Dave already knew it was fully new. I mentioned both in PMS`s and here on this thread that the car had buffer marks from the paint job. No discrepency at all. Everything I wrote here, I wrote in the pM`s with dave.



    Sorry.



    Next?

  9. #144
    MarcHarris's Avatar
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    I don`t even know how to respond anymore. Apparently I`m best friend`s with David and every other pro out there. You got me buddy. We live next door to each other - the section of America where Metro-Detroit touches South Florida. That`s what it is. It`s not that multiple people have come in to say "hey man, legit question, and all sounds about right" and you responded "ok thanks, I just wanted to make sure!", it`s like what MikeNap said above.



    I read your replies and this is how I feel:







    Marc Harris from AutoLavish Fine Automobile Care of Michigan

  10. #145

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    Sorry that you`re so confused Mr. Harris. Im confused how you gloss over Dave childishly editing my threads, texting me with harassing texts, and changing my avatar,.... yet you have a hissy fit for 3 pages about the fact that I asked for opinions on a quote. I mean seriously? With all due respect - clearly we have different views on ethics, proper conduct, and appropriate behavior. Maybe ill go hack some web site about breast cancer and you`ll find that "funny" or "normal". But god forbid someone should ask opinions on a quote here.



    I will make sure everyone I talk to never comes to this forum though. When moderators are f*cking with people`s posts, avatars, and trying to cause a ruckus just because they are "butt hurt" that they got questioned ... i have to bow out, and return to the land of adults.



    As far as you living in Florida .... I said the owner of this site lives in Florida, because Dave said he details his car. Maybe thats how dave has moderator access. Maybe dave lied. I have no idea. If he`s doing sh*t like editing people`s posts dishonestly, I wouldn`t put "fibbing" past him. If you are the owner of this site, then that is why I referenced "you" living in Florida. If you`re not, then I have no idea where you live. And I Never named you as a friend of Dave`s. I referenced his friends in general. Seriously how long is this nonsense babble going to continue?



    Much to your relief, I am done here. I can`t deal with insane behavior for very long. You were the one guy I thanked for the great input. Thanks now for being a d*ck.




  11. #146

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    My 2 cents,



    1. I am stupified as to what the OP `s goal was in this post.



    2. I charge $40 per hour and I would be willing to pay D. Fermani, B. Theal, Bob W, Rasky, John K, Charlie, Thomas D, Mark and Jacob, and a host of others their exact going rate to detail my POV because it would be worth it to me if nothing else than to watch someone I admire detail my car, and allow me to ask them questions as to their process and how they would attack certain issues on my own car`s finish. It would easily be worth the investment of my time and my money just for their knowledge, much less the fact my car would be immaculate. I am sure there are other detailers who would love to pick the brains of a lot of the great detailers here in person.



    3. I never even offer opti-coat as an upsell to a customer who isnt already paying for a 2 step or more correction because to me you are ripping them off, and setting yourself up for a dissatisfied customer.



    4. Its is nearly an empirical scientific fact that the customer who says "The car is in great condition and just needs a touch up" has no clue what to look for and their paint usually looks like it was washed by a scothbrite pad, inside of a sandpaper cavern, during an earthquake.



    5. If you called me for an estimate on a freshly repainted car, the first thing that pops in my head is "Oh dear god Im gonna spend 1-2 hours searching for overspray because if I dont I wont see it until I am putting on the damn LSP"



    6. You want wheel removal, polishing, and opti coating of the wheels.



    7. Put all these things together, and it is a sight unseen quote, I would have told you $1200 minimum to start with and believe me, I am no Dave Fermani.



    Peace out


    Lotus Effect Detailing LLC

    Owner/Operator George Koutsourais

    www.lotuseffectdetailing.net

  12. #147
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    You clearly stated you asked a bunch of David`s friends about this. I`m pointing out that we`re not all David`s buddy`s, and that is not the issue. If you go back and read my first major response, you`ll see how understanding I was. This is a lot of money and you need to make sure it`s justified and you`re not being scammed. That sounds legit. No worries there. Notice no one was giving you **** in the first 3 pages or so. Then the real stuff opened up.



    This included you saying what I now quote in my signature. The rest is clearly laid out here: http://www.autopia.org/forum/car-det...ml#post1462403



    I`m also sorry to see a mod abusing his power to make a joke, and I surely hope you`re not serious in thinking that it`s the same as HACKING A BREAST CANCER SITE. From the ludicrous things you`ve posted, I wouldn`t put it past you however, and I`m sure you likely think they`re nearly the same. I`m very very sorry for you.
    Marc Harris from AutoLavish Fine Automobile Care of Michigan

  13. #148
    mikenap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lotuseffect
    My 2 cents,



    1. I am stupified as to what the OP `s goal was in this post.



    2. I charge $40 per hour and I would be willing to pay D. Fermani, B. Theal, Bob W, Rasky, John K, Charlie, Thomas D, Mark and Jacob, and a host of others their exact going rate to detail my POV because it would be worth it to me if nothing else than to watch someone I admire detail my car, and allow me to ask them questions as to their process and how they would attack certain issues on my own car`s finish. It would easily be worth the investment of my time and my money just for their knowledge, much less the fact my car would be immaculate. I am sure there are other detailers who would love to pick the brains of a lot of the great detailers here in person.



    3. I never even offer opti-coat as an upsell to a customer who isnt already paying for a 2 step or more correction because to me you are ripping them off, and setting yourself up for a dissatisfied customer.



    4. Its is nearly an empirical scientific fact that the customer who says "The car is in great condition and just needs a touch up" has no clue what to look for and their paint usually looks like it was washed by a scothbrite pad, inside of a sandpaper cavern, during an earthquake.



    5. If you called me for an estimate on a freshly repainted car, the first thing that pops in my head is "Oh dear god Im gonna spend 1-2 hours searching for overspray because if I dont I wont see it until I am putting on the damn LSP"



    6. You want wheel removal, polishing, and opti coating of the wheels.



    7. Put all these things together, and it is a sight unseen quote, I would have told you $1200 minimum to start with and believe me, I am no Dave Fermani.



    Peace out


    YES!!!!!!!!!



    George nailed it! Man, if you could have posted within the first couple of pages, we could all have been saved some grief. But then we would have been without our daily entertainment, I guess.

  14. #149

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    I am now stepping out and playing spectator from this thread. I am glad I posted what I did being neutral but being involved in the vending community I have to step out at this time as I have said what I thought was relevant based on my perspective..









    What I will say is that the .gif files people are using to express their posts are simply amazing and very well matched to their posts.











    Marc has a side career in comedy if he wants it.
    ...they call me Mike



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  15. #150
    autoconcierge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetailBurger
    Yes I was feeling that the price was high. So what?



    I never claimed to know what I am talking about.



    I was asking.



    I am seriously not getting what the problem is.



    If I was a d*ck about it? Then okay. You could fault me for being a d*ck.



    I was polite. Professional. Thankful. Kind. Humble. Accepted correction. And at the end - I said it looks like $1700 was fair.



    Exactly *WHATS THE PROBLEM* ?



    The problem in my opinion? Dave is apparently also a modertor here, and his now abusing his powers. He`s editing my posts (see below). He changed the title of this thread. He changed my avatar .



    You really have no problem with that? But you`re going to rattle on about me asking for opinions on a quote?



    Sorry. We live in different universes.



    What I see below "TRUMPS" (sorry for the pun) anything I came remotely close to doing wrong.



    mabye you dont aree. Lets agree to disagree. Im blown away by this ...











    These quotes are at odds with what you posted endstop, you did say you knew because "The Best Detailers in San Diego" who work for all the tuning companies in the area did your car and wait for it.......................charged $350.00.



    Amongst all the whining you have graced us with the "Begging" of I ONLY rent in Trump Tower and my HRE`s were subsidized by "Obama" (Last part is not what you said but a obvious spoof on your intent and demeanor in what you posted) has me saying if the shoe fits.................the cheap shoe that is................go away as I have dealt with guys like you many times over the 18 years I have had my service and "The client" is not always right.........you were fired as a client before you started and there are three guys in your region capable of this high level work and none of them would touch you with a tenfoot pole.

 

 
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