Leather Cleaner recommend

[Roger Koh]

[quote name=`Roger Koh`]





Hey Roger, seems you know a lot about leather where as I don`t.. I`m desperate to getting my seats looking at least normal.. The leathrique is somewhat working but not at the pace I would like, it`s defiantly not doing anything to the bubble.. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

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Hydrate and relax the leather first follows by fatliquoring as follows:



1. Pre-fatliquoring - use a pH 3.3 leather-safe hydrator to relax the leather tension - thus to get rid of the bubble too.



2. Fatliquoring - use a pH 5.0 fatliquor (anionic -ve).



3. Post-Fatliquoring - use a pH 3.0 acidifier to further charge the protein fiber (cationic +ve).



Thus you fatliquor it as what was originally done to this leather.



The (-ve) fatliquor hydrogen-bond with the (+ve) protein fiber.



You can get the leather as soft as you wish.



Does what I say makes sense.



There are techniques involve too, and I shall continue if this help!







Roger Koh

Be Patience with me I’m just a Leather Doctor!

And Google me out, in case I`m banned for whatever reason.

[imported_AZ Ferrari Man]

holy Shi* I juts read 15 pages of round abouts! I think I will stick to doing what works on a topical scale..(what I can see and feel)

[Roger Koh]

holy Shi* I juts read 15 pages of round abouts! I think I will stick to doing what works on a topical scale..(what I can see and feel)

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Leather is sensuous!



It appeals to our senses.



Besides the "Sight" and the "Feel"



You may yet to experience the "Scent" - the classic leather scent that charms!



Pay attention the next time with your sensitive ears, does your leather make "Noise" when you slide in and out of those tight bucket seat?



Unless you like those squeaky noise from friction that wears down the leather finishes.



So, do you think you have miss out something, you don`t even know it exist?





Roger Koh

Be Patience with me I’m just a Leather Doctor!

[George LRP]

Thank you for taking the time to post this.

Originally Posted by Pardity

Thought I`d post my story here, hoping to get some intelligent responses..



A couple weeks ago, I left my sunroof open over the weekend. I live in NC and it get`s pretty hot during the summer so I like to keep my sunroof open so it`s not a sauna when i get in the car on Monday mornings. Anyways, it ended up raining Sunday night and my 2005 VW Passat black leather seats got totally saturated in Rain water. I`ve been using leathrique over the past couple weeks just about every other day. The rain got so bad that it actually left bubbles in the seat, almost like a bubble pocket. What does the bubble pocket come from? Anyone know? My seats are literally hard as a rock..



I am so very glad that this post and pictures are presented on this website as Judy with her water is good for leather, and the "leather master" advocate insisting leather CANNOT absorb water have now each proved themselves wrong and contradict each other.

Leather does absorb water, and therefore can be nourished, and benefits from being nourished. Using products that properly nourish the hide keep the leather supple, luxurious, maintain tensile strength, and help the leather last the life of the car. Before you redye, you should nourish the hides, and using leather care products that just sit on top are a waste of your hard earned money.

Regards,

George

[judyb]

We have not been proved wrong. You say yourself

Leather does absorb water, and therefore can be nourished, and benefits from being nourished

Water (moisture) is good for leather as I have explained but the balance needs to be correct. Leather has a very high percentage of water when it leaves the tannery and it is this that dries out over time and needs to be replaced.

Over soaking will damage the fibres of the leather as in the case here. The fibres swell and then are distorted and if not dried correctly will dry back in the distorted state which is then impossible to rectify. There are no products that will do this as you cannot reverse the process. In this particular case it looks as though the leather may have been glued to the foam interiors and the adhesion has given way due to soaking and the released areas have distorted because they are able to move easily. This is only opinion because you cannot always tell from photos on the internet.

the "leather master" advocate insisting leather CANNOT absorb water

Anyone saying that leather cannot absorb water has no fundemantal knowledge of leather and transpiration.



Nourishing leather is done with water. It is all the other products that contain oils and waxes that cannot be absorbed and do sit on the surface. On coated leathers (as in cars) this is generally what happens which does not benefit the leather at all. All coatings that are applied to leather have to allow for transpiration to take place so water has to be absorbed which will rebalance the moisture and keep it in good `condition`. When a tanner speaks about `conditioning` leather he is generally speaking about adding moisture not oils, waxes, fatliquors etc. Just becasue a leather can absorb water (moisture) it does not mean that it can absorb everything else that someone chooses to add to a product.

Before you redye, you should nourish the hides.

I am not sure whether you are talking about dyes or pigments here.

With dyes (these soak into the leather and are used on absorbent leathers) if you fill the leather with oils or waxes (apart from unbalancing the leather itself which can lead to other probelms) before you redye then the chances of getting enough product into the leather to recolour are minimal. Rehydrate with water and the results will be great (we have done this process many many times)

If you are talking about pigments that are used to `paint` the surface, these sit on the surface anyway and all you are replacing is the surface pigment. If you fill the leather with oils and waxes etc before this process the chances of good adhesion are reduced and finish failure is very likely. (we have also done this process many many times)

using leather care products that just sit on top are a waste of your hard earned money.

I agree with this in terms of `conditioners` which go nowhere. Leaving these to sit on the surface will cause a situation that will attract more dirt which is what breaks down the finish. Protectors which actually have a job to do in protecting the leather finish are a crucial element in modern leather care. They act like a `scotchgard` and will inhibit dye transfer, dirt from damaging the pigment, UV damage, etc. etc. and as long as you use one that has been tested to work they are very effective.



We had 3 calls only yesterday from clients suffering from grease patches on their leather because they had not used a leather protector (one of these was only 8 months old). We know from tests that using a Leather Protector (which is designed to sit on the surface) will stop this from happening on both Pigmented and Aniline style leathers. This together with regular light cleaning is all that is required to keep leather in good `condition`.



Hope this helps



Judyb

[Dsoto87]

Thank you judy for keeping things simple and striaght foward.



I`m no "leather doctor" but does anyone else think that this "fatliquouring" is reminiscent of single stage paints and "nourishing it with oils" or feeding it?



It seems like coated leather is the same as modern paint. Keep it clean and protected and it will last and last, and most importantly, stay looking good. We all know we don`t need to feed our clear coats with oils to keep it nice.



I`m going to stick with judys advice and keep the seats clean and protected.

[Accumulator]

Dsoto87- That might be a good analogy. The leather in my Jag is *VERY* different from the leather in my more modern cars, and responds to different treatment the same way (and to the same extent) that that car`s ss paint differs from b/c.

holy Shi* I juts read 15 pages of round abouts! I think I will stick to doing what works on a topical scale..(what I can see and feel)

Heh heh, I feel the same way. Some things posted here simply conflict with my first-hand experiences, which aren`t consistent anyhow :nixweiss



Two differing examples:



The coated leather in my used Yukon was obviously never taken care of other than the dealer`s sale-prep [crap]. Dry, cracked, *very* not good. A thorough cleaning and subsequent treating with Sonus and Leathermaster`s definitely softened it up in a very significant way and it`s *stayed* soft.



OTOH, I`ve only treated the leather in my (purchased new) `00/`01 Audis a few times, basically just kept things clean, and their leather is still in great shape.



Having observed/used these vehicles for a good while now, there`s no mistaking what`s going on with them. Why the difference? Why do my experiences differ from what "should" happen? Dunno, don`t much care :nixweiss

[Pardity]

------------------



Hydrate and relax the leather first follows by fatliquoring as follows:



1. Pre-fatliquoring - use a pH 3.3 leather-safe hydrator to relax the leather tension - thus to get rid of the bubble too.



2. Fatliquoring - use a pH 5.0 fatliquor (anionic -ve).



3. Post-Fatliquoring - use a pH 3.0 acidifier to further charge the protein fiber (cationic +ve).



Thus you fatliquor it as what was originally done to this leather.



The (-ve) fatliquor hydrogen-bond with the (+ve) protein fiber.



You can get the leather as soft as you wish.



Does what I say makes sense.



There are techniques involve too, and I shall continue if this help!







Roger Koh

Be Patience with me I’m just a Leather Doctor!

And Google me out, in case I`m banned for whatever reason.

I appreciate all the input you gave me about my

rain reddened leather seats. What are the intervals to your directions, for

example should I do the Pre-fat liquoring than wait 5 minutes and do the Fat

liquoring? Also where if anywhere do I pick up these products?



Any help I would greatly greatly appreciate..



:2thumbs:

[Roger Koh]

I appreciate all the input you gave me about my

rain reddened leather seats. What are the intervals to your directions, for

example should I do the Pre-fat liquoring than wait 5 minutes and do the Fat

liquoring?



Any help I would greatly greatly appreciate..



:2thumbs:

----------------------





The duration of hydration would have to take as long as your leather got damaged by the water (being not leather-safe pH 3 - 5).



It will need an equal or more amount of (leather-safe pH 3 - 5) hydrator in relation to the rain water that went in the first place.



This pre-fatliquoring or hydration is to separate the crushed, distorted and stick together leather fibrils and to relax them as well.



This hydrator has to be work into the leather structure by massaging, stretching to even-out the leather tension.



It has to be worked to its original softness and suppleness prior to fatliquoring.



After overnight hydration, the leather is again worked by hand massaging and stretching to regain its original shape.



While you are satisfied with the softening and reshaping of the leather structure, keeping the leather saturated and damp at all times.



Then continue with fatliquoring with a leather-safe pH 5.0 fatliquor at drying interval, with the help of the post-fatliquoring using a leather-safe pH 3.0 acidifier to cationic (+ve) charge the leather further to drive the fatliquor into the leather structure for a lasting hydrogen-bonding.



This pH 3.0 acidifier rinse helps stabilize the leather chemistry pH integrity - with a healthy squeaky feel.



A tacky, slimy feel of the leather when wet after rinsing suggest that the leather or its finish is not of good health.



After the overnight seal-up fatliquoring in dwelling, remove the plastic wrapping.



To achieve extra softness natural slow drying is preferred.



Try it out and post your experience.





Roger Koh

Be patience, I’m just a Leather Doctor!







Picture shows the wrapping up after hydrating and fatliquoring for effective dwelling within the leather inter-fibiliary structure.

[wytstang]

Why the difference?

Better hide would be my guess.

[nailzer]

The only thing I`d use on a leather interior is what I`d use on my leather jackets. Wilsons Leather Cleaner and Wilsons Leather Lotion.



Wilsons Leather - Leather Care: Search for "cleaner".

[Junebug]

After reading the leather products on Chemical Guys website, I`ve come to the conclusion that they have nailed it, as soon as I get some cash - I`m buying gallons of their stuff.

[imported_DetailDan]

After reading the leather products on Chemical Guys website, I`ve come to the conclusion that they have nailed it, as soon as I get some cash - I`m buying gallons of their stuff.

Their leather conditioner sucked last time I used it.

[wfedwar]

FWIW, I like the Zaino products...

[Junebug]

Care to send me a sample Dan?