Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 104
  1. #61

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    748
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by iamwaxman
    That statement nutshells it all for me... Well said. :xyxthumbs





    If I am not mistaken, first came the kite and key, then the light bulb (followed by the polishing machine!), and finally the DeLorean powered by 1.21 gigawatts... :spit:



    YouTube - Giga-Giga-Watt-Watt


    ROFL



    "Back to the Future" is still one of my favorite movies!

  2. #62
    wannafbody
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    8,145
    Post Thanks / Like
    But the real question is whether a PC can put swirls in a Delorian.

  3. #63

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Levittown, Pa
    Posts
    3,675
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by wannafbody
    But the real question is whether a PC can put swirls in a Delorian.


    yep it sure can, remeber it is a sander:chuckle:



    I have actually seen it done..........on Stainless steel sheets not a Delorian

  4. #64

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    86,975
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by BigJimZ28
    ..I have actually seen it done..........on Stainless steel sheets not a Delorian


    Yeah, my builder messed up my stainless vanity shop in the garage and to fix it his guy spent nearly a whole day polishing the scratches out via PC. Hours and hours and hours with different polishing compounds and wool pads but eventually it ended up looking fine.



    (Of course the tile guy promptly put *new* scratches in it, which I`m still living with )

  5. #65
    Kevin Brown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    653
    Post Thanks / Like
    Took some pics with a little 150x magnification USB camera.

    I wanted to show what the Surbuf microfingers look like when they are flattened a bit.

    For reference, I also took a shot of a Meguiar`s W8006 SoftBuff Polishing Pad, a Meguiar`s M9910 Ultimate Wipe, and a Mirka Abralon disc.



    Funny thing is, my $12 Radio Shack magnifier with a built-in light works way better!

    I can`t figure out how to capture the shot with it, though.

    With it, I can tell if a sanding disc is a coarse or fine grit, and even if it is worn out!



    In the pictures, the pointer is the lead tip of a Pentel .5mm pencil:







    Shot of the Meguiar`s W8006 SoftBuff Polishing Pad:







    Shot of the Surbuf R Series Pad:







    Shot of a Meguiar`s M9910 Ultimate Wipe (used and washed several times):







    Mirka Abralon 4000 grit Sanding Disc:







    It is interesting to see the structure of the foam pad... Easy to see why we lose so much cut!

    Not a lot of surface area to force the particles into the paint as they`re being moved about.

    This is why pressure changes make such a difference in cut with any foam pad.

  6. #66

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    249
    Post Thanks / Like
    I have been messing around with DA wetsanding and using the Surbuf on the DA for a few weeks now.





    In the past, I have never tried removing wetsanding marks with the DA. The rotary does such a good job that I never tried it. But, I did take the suggestions from Kevin and gave the Surbuf pads a try.



    The Surbuf pads are very different from the foam pads we normally use.











    Because these pads are so different, they can remove defects that are simply unheard of.



    Here`s an example:



    I DA sanded this scrap hood using a Mirka Abranet Soft 1500 disk.









    Using a 5.5" Surbuf pad and the original formula M105 on the DA, I was able to remove the 1500 grit marks. Although there is some deep etching, you can clearly see that the marks have been removed.









    The finish left by the Surbuf pad and M105 is a little hazed, but it can easily corrected with PO106FA or M205 on a polishing pad. So yes, a DA (with the right combination) can remove serious defects.



    Notes about the Surbuf pad:

    - The amount of product is absolutely critical. If you apply too much product, it will not remove many defects. I found that it was best to prime the pad with product and then polish the area. If you find that there is too much product on the surface, wipe it off the area and then continue polishing without adding more product.



    - The amount of pressure used can also very important. Follow Kevin`s guidelines and you should be fine.



    - Surbuf offers many different sizes of pads. The 5.5" pads were perfect for my use, but you can choose whatever size you like.

  7. #67
    wannafbody
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    8,145
    Post Thanks / Like
    Does the Surbuf/PC combo work as well as a rotary and wool? The biggest issue with rotary and wool is shedding and sling.

  8. #68

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Newfoundland
    Posts
    576
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by jayh2301
    The bottom line is that u can`t remove scratches with any orbital sorry ta tell u that bro....
    You can`t fly to the moon, either, but that doesn`t mean it can`t be done...



    I only use a DA...

  9. #69

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Newfoundland
    Posts
    576
    Post Thanks / Like
    Besides the surbuf website, where can you get their products? Or is that where you suggest getting them?

  10. #70

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    MA / NH
    Posts
    3,594
    Post Thanks / Like
    Most woodworking stores will carry the Surbuf pads.
    Raising The Gloss Bar One Car At a Time!

    UNIQUE POLISHING, MA / NH

    Ryan Blanchette

  11. #71
    Kevin Brown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    653
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thanks for posting your experience, PorscheGuy997 (Chris).

    Yes, while this system works well, it is a bit touchy to dial in.



    This is why I do not recommend that a beginner decide to sand a panel on their car and then expect this system to work easily to remove the marks!

    It takes an experienced person that knows how to properly remove sanding marks (and not panic) should things not go smoothly...



    To take a few steps back, I posted this method mainly to outline a procedure that can rival a rotary polisher for paint leveling. I should have probably started a new `paint leveling` thread. My intention was to offer an answer to the statement, "...a PC will NEVER match the power, cut, or precision of a rotary polisher..."



    Give it a little practice, and this procedure will not only remove some pretty harsh paint defects... it will rival the rotary and wool pad for paint leveling.



    Very exciting!



    A word of caution:

    On fresh paint (or paint containing flex agent), there is enough applied force with this method that the paint could `twist`.



    Paint twisting occurs when the heat and friction created by the machine, pad, buffing liquid, and applied pressure combine to alter the bond between the paint, primer, or substrate it is attached to.



    What does this mean?

    Well, the result of paint twist resembles the sidewall of a drag slick leaving the line. I do not have a picture to show paint twist, because it is rather rare. Maybe the next time I work on a freshly painted test panel I can try to make a twist mark.



    Normally, it takes a pretty aggressive combination to twist paint.

    A rotary buffer and a wool pad (or a dense foam pad) teamed with a decent amount of pressure could do it. Buffing liquids containing strong solvents increase the risk of it, too. About ten years ago I twisted a small area of paint on a bumper cladding, but I was able to sand and polish the area, repairing the damage.



    In an extreme case of paint twist... the paint can actually be torn off the panel! It is rare, but I have seen it happen. A few years ago I had spent about 50 hours sanding and polishing a paint job. Someone else decided to `touch-up` buff an small area and within a few seconds managed to twist a quarter-size piece of paint right off.



    So, as with most things, proceeding with caution and common sense is an asset.

  12. #72

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    3,079
    Post Thanks / Like
    I`ve encountered this nice delamination/twist last year on a bumper of a BMW.




  13. #73
    Kevin Brown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    653
    Post Thanks / Like
    Ouch!



    That is what it looks like sometimes.

    No chance to sand that one flat!



    Did that happen while you were polishing, or was it already there?

    If it happened while you were polishing, what was the process you used, right before you fell to your knees screaming, "NO!!!! Not me... why...!"



    Once again... plastic panel, likely has flex agent.

    It does not happen often, but it certainly can rise up and bite even the most experienced paint polisher... :soscared:

  14. #74

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    3,079
    Post Thanks / Like
    The owner was dissatisfied with his previous detailer (can`t imagine why...), so he brought it to me.



    AFAIK, it happened with a rotary/wool combo and some 3M compound.

  15. #75
    Forza Auto Salon David Fermani's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Troy, MI
    Posts
    12,534
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Brown
    I can`t join this discussion to the degree I`d like to just now, but I REALLY want to!



    Upon my return from SEMA I`ve got other time consuming things to deal with (including another extended out-of-town gig)...

    Good thing this forum has a lot of staying power!



    This has the potential to be one of the best threads ever on Autopia if it remains a discussion...



    I`ll go on the record as saying this:

    Based on my own experiences, a random-orbital can match or outperform a rotary.

    That statement applies to final polishing and serious defect removal.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Brown

    I would like to debate this over a longer period of time and no way can I type a sensible opinion about this topic today. As I mentioned my original post, this a really great topic. I hope the discussion morphs into a thread based on theory of application and results.



    I have seen a random-orbital match the power, cut, and precision of a rotary polisher. It is do-able.







    I respect to all of your opinions and appreciate the interaction and opportunity to discuss this more in-depth in the coming weeks! :woohoo: Thanks.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Brown
    That being said, it would be better if I just explain why I think the R/O actually does level a paint surface as good as or better than a rotary. Then I can get specific as to the pad/liquid/speed/downward pressure combos.



    Most of the pros on the forum won`t need all that info, but I want it to be there for all to see. After all, I am definitely in the minority on the subject. Why, just a little while ago, I would NEVER have made such a statement... I AM a rotary guy at heart!!!!





    I`ve started outlining my theory as to why it is possible that an R/O can outperform a rotary, and I know I`m gonna catch a lot of grief if I don`t explain things in a manner that makes my reasonings obvious. So, sorry I`m not ready to lay it out there... Even though I made such an outrageous statement, I promise to back it up soon. :faint:


    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Brown

    Hopefully, one of the forum members will try this method and post some high quality shots of the process.



    There are a few combinations that work well when using the random-orbital polisher to level paint.

    Here is the list of products I use for this particular system:



    Meguiar’s G110 Random-Orbital Polisher

    Meguiar’s M105 Ultra Cut CompoundMeguiar’s Last Touch Detail Spray

    Surbuf R Series Microfingers 6.5†pad

    Meguiar’s W9006 SoftBuff Finishing Pad



    This is not a one-step system, so plan on changing pads and possibly buffing liquid to remove any remaining defects. Since my best results have been achieved when using M105 as the buffing liquid, I recommend that you also use M105. There are a lot of highly skilled paint polishers that are members of this forum (and have already used M105), so their experience can also benefit us, should attempts to use this system deliver less than satisfactory results.




    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Brown
    Anyone try this method yet?



    Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?


    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Brown



    To take a few steps back, I posted this method mainly to outline a procedure that can rival a rotary polisher for paint leveling. My intention was to offer an answer to the statement, "...a PC will NEVER match the power, cut, or precision of a rotary polisher..."



    Give it a little practice, and this procedure will not only remove some pretty harsh paint defects... it will rival the rotary and wool pad for paint leveling.




    Epic thread :bump:



    Things and people’s opinions/workflows sure have changed since this thread began its life. I’ve tried the famous Kevin Brown Method (KBM) and now use a DA exclusively to level paint. I also feel I can get equal or better results of a rotary doing so too. But, and that’s a big but, I still feel that prior to the whole M105/DA phenomenon, there wasn’t the ability of doing so without this combo. Technology has surely been accelerated since then. No fair that you had insider information and access to products that gave heart to this whole turn in paint leveling though. ::smokin::thx



    With that said, :rip: to my Rotary



    <AND>



    Long live the :waxing:
    Metro Detroit`s leader in cleaning, preserving & perfecting fine automobiles!

 

 
Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. I let my friend try DP Power Wash...
    By RaysWay in forum Washing, Drying, and Claying
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 10-29-2014, 08:02 PM
  2. Replies: 13
    Last Post: 07-25-2005, 06:47 PM
  3. Replacing power antenna with non power??
    By imported_kgb in forum Body Shop & Mechanical Modifications
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-23-2003, 12:28 PM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-01-1970, 12:00 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •