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  1. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshVette
    I did not contradict myself, I think based on the quote you quoted you could figure out I was refering to a none polished car with a nuba and sythetic, with the nuba looking better as compared to a fully polished and perfected paint with a nuba and sythetic.
    I`m not going to get in a pissing contest, but yes, based on what you wrote, you contradicted yourself.

    I don`t believe `nubas hide imperfections well at all, although I will say that on less than perfect paint a sythetic will tend to highlight those imperfections more.



    I do think that most people on this site realize that how well a vehicle looks relies heavily on how well the paint has been polished, and not simply what is used to cover up.

  2. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshVette
    I just read this whole thread......I can`t believer all the "pro`s" out there that are wanting to use oily products that will only temporarily fill and hide defects which is why Carnauba`s give that "warm" look.



    My plan of attack is not in the LSP but in the prep work, once I polish out all the swirls and defects in the paint I need absolutely nothing to enhance the look or make it feel more "warm", at that point, I use what gives the best durability to protect the new finish.



    If looks are all that matter, then why aren`t most of us taking the time to polish out all the defects instead of using cheaters to temporarily make it look like something it`s not?



    Josh


    Well...I only see a problem with pro`s using these "oily filler products" if they are using them to hide defects, that they are telling the customer they have corrected (to cut corners). However, if a car has been correctly prepped, and the "oily filler products" aid in achieving depth and wetness, I see no problem with using them.



    It would stand to reason that if you put an oily glaze on a non-prepped surface, and it improved the looks a lot, it would REALLY make a properly prepped surface pop.



    This stuff is so subjective - how can you fault a person for liking the look of a glaze / nuba versus a sealant? As long as the prep has been done correctly, the glze / wax / sealant is just icing on the cake.

  3. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottwax
    Carnaubas don`t hide defects well. I use carnaubas because especially on solid colors (non metallics), they flat look better than any sealant I have used. At least around here, they also give 3-5 months protection...and protect against bird bombs better than sealants.




    Scott, I have to respectfully disagree with this statement.



    Which carnauba`s are you finding that give 3-5 months durability?



    ....and carnauba`s DO help to hide defects, maybe not as well as a glaze, but they still cover up, I know this from years of personal experience.



    So what do you use on your personal vehicle?



    Nasty rain today, good thing I`ve got a sweet black NSX sitting in my garage waiting to get polished out. I`ll be back later today.:waxing:
    Perfection Is In The Details



    Rated one of the Top Nine Auto Detailers in the US by AutoWeek Magazine! :buffing:

  4. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshVette
    But you are also right when it does come down to what a person`s looking for in the finish. My clients don`t ask me if it will look warm and inviting when I`m done, after explaining prep work and it`s importance they know when I`m finished they will have perfect paint that will give them all the characteristics of a warm, wet, mirror perfect shine.


    I agree. It`s a very small percentage of car owners who notice the differences between lsp`s.

  5. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by weekendwarrior
    Well...I only see a problem with pro`s using these "oily filler products" if they are using them to hide defects, that they are telling the customer they have corrected (to cut corners). However, if a car has been correctly prepped, and the "oily filler products" aid in achieving depth and wetness, I see no problem with using them.



    It would stand to reason that if you put an oily glaze on a non-prepped surface, and it improved the looks a lot, it would REALLY make a properly prepped surface pop.



    This stuff is so subjective - how can you fault a person for liking the look of a glaze / nuba versus a sealant? As long as the prep has been done correctly, the glze / wax / sealant is just icing on the cake.




    I understand what you`re sazing, but what I`m trying to get accross is on a properly preped surface there should be no real swirls or defects to glaze over so there won`t be any real enhancing other then in one`s mind??
    Perfection Is In The Details



    Rated one of the Top Nine Auto Detailers in the US by AutoWeek Magazine! :buffing:

  6. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshVette
    I understand what you`re sazing, but what I`m trying to get accross is on a properly preped surface there should be no real swirls or defects to glaze over so there won`t be any real enhancing other then in one`s mind??


    Actually, what I am saying is that on a properly prepped surface, the glaze wouldn`t be used to "glaze over defects", because there wouldn`t be any. The point of the glaze would be an optical enhancement. Some glazes (like Meg`s #7) tend to darken the paint. Again, I am saying glazes can be used in this type capacity also - not just to mask defects.

  7. #97

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    I`m always amazed at how the threads that add little to no value to this trade seem to be the ones with the most posts and most engaged discussions

  8. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshVette
    I understand what you`re sazing, but what I`m trying to get accross is on a properly preped surface there should be no real swirls or defects to glaze over so there won`t be any real enhancing other then in one`s mind??
    Glazes add optical improvements to a perfect finish. Some may also fill but ALL improve the look before sealing it in with a LSP. Some are wet (eg, #7, RMG), some are dry (eg, DWG).



    To say glazes and carnaubas don`t add anything worthwhile or lack durability suggests a gap in your detailing education. Learn from some of the more experienced pros on this forum.



    And don`t forget, as good as Zaino products may be, Sal is always pushing his own barrow.

  9. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshVette
    Which carnauba`s are you finding that give 3-5 months durability?


    I get that with Meg`s #16 (around three months) and from Collinite 845 and (especially) 476S (well over five months if I initially layer). That`s on year-round daily drivers.



    ....and carnauba`s DO help to hide defects, maybe not as well as a glaze, but they still cover up, I know this from years of personal experience...


    Yeah, I get a little concealing, especially with the heavier carnuabas.



    ........I can`t believer all the "pro`s" out there that are wanting to use oily products that will only temporarily fill and hide defects...My plan of attack is..[to]..polish out all the swirls and defects in the paint..


    I`ll play devil`s advocate here just for the sake of discussion (hoping we can, if necessary agree to disagree without any contentious :argue ):



    I have a few vehicles that can`t stand any additional abrasive polishing; whether it`s me doing the work or anybody else, trying to correct the finish would lead to disaster...a repaint that would utterly ruin the priceless originality. As I often say "better imperfect original paint than a perfect repaint".



    Even on the M3 (no concerns about originality), I aimed for ~90% correction and ended up taking off too much clear before I got there. (Yeah, shoulda bought my ETG before I started Live and learn.. ). I`d rather still have marring than pay to have a few panels reshot, which is what I have to do now.



    Also, *as long as the customer knows what`s being done*, if Mr./Mrs. Average Customer is just gonna mar the paint up again, how often can you keep correcting it? If the customer washes/etc. properly, OK, no problem. But everybody I know who pays for details promptly treats the vehicle badly (carwashes, etc.) and if they had 0.10 mil polished off every few months they`d be out of clear in no time (and they`d be POed about it). Better that their vehicles "just look good" until they need detailed again, whereupon they once again look good for another few months. I felt this way back when I did cars for family and friends; they were happy and I never had to worry about running out of clear. They knew how I was approaching things and nobody thought there was any "cheating" involved.



    I agree about not "cheating" by hiding defects that people think are really gone, but IMO there are times when it`s not cheating, but rather just doing the right thing.

  10. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfisti
    Glazes add optical improvements to a perfect finish. Some may also fill but ALL improve the look before sealing it in with a LSP. Some are wet (eg, #7, RMG), some are dry (eg, DWG).



    To say glazes and carnaubas don`t add anything worthwhile or lack durability suggests a gap in your detailing education. Learn from some of the more experienced pros on this forum.



    And don`t forget, as good as Zaino products may be, Sal is always pushing his own barrow.




    Get off it already, you don`t even know me......:spit:



    I never said glazes and carnaubas don`t add anything, they add plenty........of oils and fillers..... but you`re putting words in my mouth, and yes they do lack durability compared to many other products.



    I do learn alot from the more experience and qualified detailers around (how few they are) and they don`t seem to use glazes either.:grinno:



    Maybe I have a gap in my education, but I must be doing something right for clients to pay me thousands to make their car perfect......or maybe my clients are just stupid for paying so much for someone so inexperienced.:grinno:



    I did not get the impression that Sal was "pushing" his line, he was simply responding to an article with information about carnauba products, not trying to get everyone to buy his product.



    Josh
    Perfection Is In The Details



    Rated one of the Top Nine Auto Detailers in the US by AutoWeek Magazine! :buffing:

  11. #101

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    Accumulator, I understand what you`re saying about glazes, but those kinds of cars are the very rare exception.



    Also, I highly educate my clientele on car care and washing techniques, I even give them a page with a simple two bucket wash, leaf blow drying and MF towel write up so they can properly care for there vehicle and not have a costly $600-$800 process done every 8-12 months. I know I loose a little money in the long run, but I see it as if I will gain there loyalty for caring more about there car then about my own income. I`m doing well enough with this approach.



    I even had a client ask if I thought 10 coats of Zaino was enough or just 5 knowing that I charge an extra $20 per application. I told him 5 would be plenty for the 6-9 months till I do it again. The same client wanted me to do a $1000 dollar show car polish job once a year and I told him, yes the first time will probably cost that much, do to paying by the hour and time it takes, but once it`s restored if he properly keeps it, it should still be in good shape next year and only cost maybe $400 or so next time around. You might think I just lost $600 bucks, but I`ll bet he appreciates my honesty a lot more then trying to make an extra buck off him.



    I will never need money bad enough to be dishonest with someone.



    Josh
    Perfection Is In The Details



    Rated one of the Top Nine Auto Detailers in the US by AutoWeek Magazine! :buffing:

  12. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshVette
    Get off it already, you don`t even know me......:spit:
    Don`t need to know you...just what you`ve publicly state on this forum.



    I never said glazes and carnaubas don`t add anything, they add plenty........of oils and fillers..... but you`re putting words in my mouth, and yes they do lack durability compared to many other products.
    I said OPTICAL IMPROVEMENTS. As far as durability goes, some sealants have poor durability, some carnaubas have great durability. Can`t generalize.



    I do learn alot from the more experience and qualified detailers around (how few they are) and they don`t seem to use glazes either.:grinno:
    Sorry...some do. And, by the way, it`s condescending and arrogant to claim that there a `few` qualified detailers here.



    Maybe I have a gap in my education, but I must be doing something right for clients to pay me thousands to make their car perfect......or maybe my clients are just stupid for paying so much for someone so inexperienced.:grinno:
    Can`t comment about that...just your published opinions.



    I did not get the impression that Sal was "pushing" his line, he was simply responding to an article with information about carnauba products, not trying to get everyone to buy his product.
    So he sells carnaubas does he?

  13. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfisti

    Can`t generalize.



    Sorry...some do. And, by the way, it`s condescending and arrogant to claim that there a `few` qualified detailers here.


    Well for someone who can`t generalize, you`ve sure done plenty about me.



    I`m not being arrogant or condescending (another generalization by you), I`ve simply found that out of the thousands and thousands of detailers around there are only a very few that perform on the highest level and those are the one`s I try to learn from.



    Josh:tribe:
    Perfection Is In The Details



    Rated one of the Top Nine Auto Detailers in the US by AutoWeek Magazine! :buffing:

  14. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshVette
    Well for someone who can`t generalize, you`ve sure done plenty about me.
    Nope...just specifics on your published comments.



    I`m not being arrogant or condescending (another generalization by you), I`ve simply found that out of the thousands and thousands of detailers around there are only a very few that perform on the highest level and those are the one`s I try to learn from.
    Then learn from the ones who have bothered to respond to your comments.

  15. #105

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    No disrepect D&D not your intentions I am sure!

 

 
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