Permanent Coatings?

[Reflectiveauto]

Cquartz coatings are presently not considered permanent, just long life - so it is not what the OP is looking for. OC is the only one on the detailing scene which is presently available. Is it actually permanent and can you prove it - yes and this has been done. Does the hydrophobic behaviour persist the same throughout - no. This does not mean it has gone.

There are other manufacturers who claim similarly - their products are super long lasting but the appearance and water behaviour will disappear with time, but the product remains never the less. If someone claims this, you are right to be extremely suspicious! Demand some proof of the claim! I believe Optimum have done so, mostly the others go very quiet at this point.

Well if the Hydrophobic ability does not persist after some time then dirt and other contaminates will attach themselves to the paint and damage the coating overtime. I will pick a true long term coating over a over hyped and not proven permanent coating any day of the week. I understand the reasoning of maintance for my customers cars specially when I have a coating on theirs because to maintain them is to keep them looking the best and keeping the protection upto par up here in the NW in WA.st. If a coating loses its water protection then its a worthless coating since dirt and contamination will settle on the coating and leave swirls and RIDS overtime.

[Rsurfer]

All you OC lovers out there..polish it off and put down some Nanoskin for real protection.

[CH.Detailing]

All you OC lovers out there..polish it off and put down some Nanoskin for real protection.

Preach brotha!!!

[ShaneB]

If a coating loses its water protection then its a worthless coating since dirt and contamination will settle on the coating and leave swirls and RIDS overtime.

Soooooooo every car wax/sealant/or coating is worthless???

[Rsurfer]

Soooooooo every car wax/sealant/or coating is worthless???

No, only Opti Coat according to some.

[ShaneB]

Apparently... reflectiveauto, have you used OC?

[Merlin]

Here is a thread (It`s a LONG read on AG) OC vs. Cquartz coating with a A vs.B coating debate.
Although it is VERY lengthy (and heated at times) there is a TON of information worth reading.

Here are some of the current coating players...
OC & OG, CQ & CQ Finest & the recent entry in the field Nanoskin Mega Trend Inorganic Coating

I have used all but the new Nanoskin Entry...
I personally like the "look" and "feel" of the two CQuartz products better than Optimum OC/OG.
I use Reload as a QD for CQ. If you`re a "beading" fan I think you can also use Hydro2 Touchless

If you`re doing a truck fleet here`s a thought...put OC on the roof & CQ on the hood and the sides.
I`ve done this coating "combo" a few times. Why? I don`t care about the look & feel of a truck roof.

IMHO "Beading" is FUN to watch. "Beading" is not a true "measure" of LSP protection or durability.

Again, these are just my thoughts.

Now on to Permanent.
For those of you with wives you`ll appreciate this. My wife went to the Salon and got her hair done.
The permanent she got on her head set me back over $350! It should have been called a temporary.

[wendell jarvis]

I personally like CQuartz......

[Trouble]

Here is a thread (It`s a LONG read on AG) OC vs. Cquartz coating with a A vs.B coating debate.
Although it is VERY lengthy (and heated at times) there is a TON of information worth reading.

Here are some of the current coating players...
OC & OG, CQ & CQ Finest & the recent entry in the field Nanoskin Mega Trend Inorganic Coating

I have used all but the new Nanoskin Entry...
I personally like the "look" and "feel" of the two CQuartz products better than Optimum OC/OG.
I use Reload as a QD for CQ. If you`re a "beading" fan I think you can also use Hydro2 Touchless

If you`re doing a truck fleet here`s a thought...put OC on the roof & CQ on the hood and the sides.
I`ve done this coating "combo" a few times. Why? I don`t care about the look & feel of a truck roof.

IMHO "Beading" is FUN to watch. "Beading" is not a true "measure" of LSP protection or durability.

Again, these are just my thoughts.

Now on to Permanent.
For those of you with wives you`ll appreciate this. My wife went to the Salon and got her hair done.
The permanent she got on her head set me back over $350! It should have been called a temporary.

Good info Merlin. Thanks

[PiPUK]

Well if the Hydrophobic ability does not persist after some time then dirt and other contaminates will attach themselves to the paint and damage the coating overtime. I will pick a true long term coating over a over hyped and not proven permanent coating any day of the week. I understand the reasoning of maintance for my customers cars specially when I have a coating on theirs because to maintain them is to keep them looking the best and keeping the protection upto par up here in the NW in WA.st. If a coating loses its water protection then its a worthless coating since dirt and contamination will settle on the coating and leave swirls and RIDS overtime.

As others have said, no other product really offers more than OC. By your logic, this would seem to suggest that every product on the market is worthless.

You have mistaken water repellency for protection. Repelling water is great but this is not self cleaning. Self cleaning is in fact the absolute opposite. Ideal self-cleaning coatings have zero water repellency. Such coatings work by water being strongly attracted to the surface. As such, water will get `between` soiling and the surface and thus it washes away easily. This isn`t something open to debate, that is simply how it works. Water repellent finishes are actually `difficult to dirty`, not so much `easy to clean`. Dirt is typically suspended in water and because water does not stick, the dirt is inhibited likewise. Unfortunately, when the dirt does stick or when you get air borne oily soils (for instance exhaust gases), the water is unable to wet the surface effectively so the surface actually becomes more difficult to clean! Unfortunately users love beads and a self cleaning surface will simply not provide this. Additionally, it is a lot harder to make durable and strongly hydrophillic (self cleaning) surfaces. Between these two and the fact that most advanced detailing brands are a lot less advanced than they claim, such self cleaning finishes are not really available to automotive sectors.

My claim to knowledge is not that I am with a detailing brand working on marketing, rather I formulate and manufacture products, in-house, which are routinely wholesaled to a number of the detailing brands on the market - which hundreds of detailers, worldwide, now use.

[Todd@RUPES]

Paint is not perament in anyways....when the clear coat fails the paint will fail soon afterwards....I thought there were detailers on here...where do u come with up with these thoughts?

Hmmmmmm....

Please respect the opinions of others on this forum. Any future insult on your end will result in a "bad boy timeout" ban of 1 week...

I, as much as anybody like a debate, but you need to remain respectful.

[Todd@RUPES]

I dont think any coating is permanant. I have seen Optic Coat Pro 2.0 in person and after 3 months it did not impress me or the owner after doing a water test.

Then it was applied improperly in my experience. I was part of David Fermani`s test were we witnessed exceptional paint beading 17 months after application, after washing the paint with engine degreasers and wheel acids.

Just to be clear, you judged the performance without:

• Testing it on multiple paint systems (you should know everything is different)
• Not applying it yourself (instead relying on second-hand opinions)

As a detailer why would they want a Permanent coating put on anyways? If the owner thinks they have their car Permanent coated they would be lazy and think they dont need to have that car detailed again, which means that or those cars are not coming back which is lost revenue for the detailer over the long haul.

I understand your point of view. I have a different business opinion. I am a fan of offering as much quality as I can upfront. I believe building a quality reputation by offering the best of your abilities will build more cliental at a greater rate. With the upcharge for offering such a coating, I believe you will experience an increase in profits.

I think the coating`s with some ceramic hardness to upto 18-24 months that been be proven is the best bet since those cars should be on sometype of maintance program to maintain that time frame of protection.

I am not sure which products have been proven to last any amount of time. Any product which doesn`t form a permanent bond to the paint is subject to wear.

[quote=Reflectiveauto;474009]

No one can prove OC or any coating is perament...it has not been out long enough. Even the maker of OC says its not permanent....he says its good for about 2-5 years at best with the best care.

No he doesn`t, at least when I asked him. If you are going to state things factually, please contact the owner directly or preface your statement with "I assume the owner..." or "I heard the owner".

Its all about the maintance after the OC detail. Im sorry I dont buy into the OC craze when it cant be be proven.

What product do you use that is "`proven"? Instead of being negative about one product, perhaps you could share your proven results and benefit the forum in a more positive manner.

All the warranty is for is more of a money making oppertuninty for the detailer and the coating company. Nothing wrong with making money cuz that is what I do but I dont do it on hopes and dreams that it will never need to be maintained cuz it will...but why give it only a 5 yr Warranty when the OC Reps on the forums are saying its a permanent coating..

.

Dr. David G is an exceptional chemist and smart business owner. Perhaps if you called him and asked him the reasons you would have your answer.

why just give it a life time warranty....because they know its not permanent coating. Can OC last 5 yrs? Im sure it can again with proper maintance and a refresher coating to layer it up.

Your opinion is in direct disagreement with the chemist who created it as well as the 100s of long-term users who have reported zero degradation after 3 years.

I have disagree....I have seen nothing in person that proves OC is the best out there. I would not put that junk on my customers cars even though some have asked me too.

I found that giving my clients what they want was a better business model.

Paint is not perament in anyways....when the clear coat fails the paint will fail soon afterwards....I thought there were detailers on here...where do u come with up with these thoughts?

Nothing is permanent. I will go into more detail on this shortly.

If something is Permanent it does not need to be maintained. If something is supposed to be maintained cuz its permanent then its really not permanent because if its not maintained correctlly it will fail...Fail=Not Permanent

PERMANENT doesn`t exist. It`s an abstract term, much like INFINITE.

The Earth isn`t Permanent, the Solar System isn`t Permanent, The Universe isn`t Permanent....

So if your whole basis in calling Opti-Coat JUNK and questioning the intelligence of detailers on this forum is because of the word PERMNENT, perhaps I can help clear up your confusion. The problem may be as simple as you do not understand the terminology.

PERMANENT paint coatings form a PERMANENT BOND to the paint (or substrate applied to). This simply means that as long as their is paint present, the coating will be present.

Opti-Coat forms a permanent resin bond to paint, therefore Opti-Coat is considered a PERMANENT COATING. You seemed confused on this point, I hope that helps.

Will the paint still fail, over time? Yes (but will last much longer).
Does Opti-Coat require maintenance for best results? Yes (although far less)

AutopiaForums is dedicated to helping users of all levels improve their knowledge and skill level and we are here to help you.

[Evan.J]

Thanks for all that info Todd great stuff!

[Orinda Auto Detail]

Todd your still my idol, even more so now!

[Rsurfer]

Todd your still my idol, even more so now!