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  1. #31

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    Re: Polish/polishers, time to up my game. Let’s talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin View Post
    For me it`s simple...

    Rupes 21 with a 5" Backing Plate. This is my go-to combo for a tool and BP. Click Here

    I have started using the Rupes "system" Blue, Yellow, White with 5" Pads and matching Polishes.
    Rupes 21 is easy on the body (vs. a forced rotation 3401 etc.), safer on the paint, and does a GREAT job!
    No professional but its nice to see professionals using the new rupes system. I really enjoy the yellow pad and yellow polish combo on my toyota, removed some relatively difficult defects and finished down to a mirror shine!

    I have the first gen. G15 from griots which i really enjoy using.
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  2. #32
    dansautodetailing.com Stokdgs's Avatar
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    Re: Polish/polishers, time to up my game. Let’s talk

    jem7sk --
    There are lots of backing plates out there made by everyone..
    I have used a lot of Lake Country Yellow Backing Plates, from the 5 inch diameter size down to 1 inch, they are battle tested and fine for me..
    I try to stick to "known for years products" with a great track record and just keep it there.. No need or desire to pursue the "flavor or the month", thank you..

    Pads - have tried many and have the best all around performance with again, Lake Country pads.. They are made in Wisconsin for decades..
    They have gone through a lot of different ones, since the foam for pads also evolved over the decades, improved, and continues to improve..

    A long time ago, they made this type called Hydro-Tech, which I tried and really liked.. These did not readily absorb liquid, which meant they would work longer before they eventually did, and once they got them sorted out, they did a great job for me with my 10lb+ Makita 9227 Rotary..

    They only come in 3 colors = types, so it was so much easier to deal with..

    And for me, they always worked great.. I could put a lot of downward pressure on the Makita at the correction process, and they could take it all day long and not break down.. Use the Cyan (Blue) pad for all "normal" correction, and the Tangerine (Orange) for lighter correction or even finishing polishing..
    That`s it ! I get perfect, clear, flat, glossy results every time..

    Now, there are a Lot of great pad makers available here at the Autopia Store, and many love them too, and get excellent results from them..
    I just prefer to keep it simple, keep costs controlled as best as possible, and have learned how to make these 2 color pads do anything I want with Rotary Power..

    Their 3rd color - Crimson (Red), is only great for applying the LSP, whatever you may want to apply after all the paint correction and wipe down is completed..
    I hardly ever do that because I cannot see wasting a pad on an LSP that will be pretty hard to remove, and use again with a different LSP, so I just dont do that..
    Others, may not see it as I do, that is fine..

    For really bad paint defects, for sure, Airplanes, those giant long vans, etc., I use another Lake Country Product = Purple Foam Wool pad.. This throws out less wool everywhere, and can really correct great and leave a nice finish afterwards, using my Makita... I will use a heavier compound of course if needed, with this pad. You have to be careful with anything wool, etc., pad because with a heavier compound like Meguiars 105, etc., this pad, a little moisture, and a Rotary, on most paint, it will cut down really fast, so you have to be aware of that and try to take as little clearcoat off to just get the defects out if possible...
    Then, you still will have to come back with a Polish to get that paint back to perfectly clear, flat, and glossy... So you are probably removing a little more in microns, of clear coat... The idea is to not take off too much of an unknown number of microns of clear coat ever..

    Now, over at the Auto Paint and Body Place, the Painter/s know how much paint+clearcoat they applied over their work, and we all apply A Lot on purpose, so we can remove it to get a really great finish and know there is still a lot left over...

    On a Factory Painted car, not knowing how much may have already been removed, you have to be much more careful..

    A good, Total Paint Thickness Meter would help you here, by telling you the total thickness of Everything on that spot on the panel in microns, and if it is over 100+ microns there is a chance that correcting it carefully you will be ok.. https://www.autopia-carcare.com/high...l#.YJG4FNWpH3g

    What I like to do is measure before, then do the work on that spot and measure again.. Did I remove a lot of microns or not? How many did I remove?
    The less you remove to get to the required level of correction is always going to be subjective, so think about that also.. There is not a set in stone way for this most important part either... All Paint work is different, even on the same vehicle, some panels, parts may be repainted, some not...

    The Meter will tell you before you start, where there is a LOT of thickness,(compared to the areas around it) which usually indicates there was repair work done there and there might be a lot of Bondo or something, hopefully a lot of paint too, but you cannot just assume there is a lot of paint... For sure, places like that you have to be more careful and aware of.. Great lighting from overhead and the sides, really helps to see better..

    I have seen a lot of Rotaries over decades, cannot remember all the ones I saw and used as a kid, but they were big and heavy for sure..
    Never saw one that had 2 handles, like one on each side.. All the ones I have used of course, the body of the machine is for one hand, and another handle if you want, can be attached over the top of it, or out either side of it..
    I am one who likes and understands - Leverage - and am really good with one hand on the body/trigger area of my Makita and the other hand on a handle that screws into the side of the Makita... I get great leverage for me, and with the spacer, I can still get more easily into smaller places if needed.

    My Boat Detailer friend uses no extra handles on his big DeWalts; prefers to just put the other hand down on the back of the top of it to help control it..

    The only machines I can think of that came with places for 2 handles around the machine were those awful things they sold at Sears, etc., that were supposed to be some kind of buffer or something... My Father in Law had one of those awful things, and it never did anything good.. They had these cloth things for pads that you tied onto the backing plate, which I assume was never going to be but one size - 6 inches..
    Dan F
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  3. #33

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    Re: Polish/polishers, time to up my game. Let’s talk

    I’m gonna buy some rupes new da pads. Good for long throw, or forced. Getting 5” for now so,they will work with my current machine. Still deciding on what machine.

    ‘’so now the question is what compounds to buy, and what pads, and how many?

    do I need corse and fine compound? Coarse and fine pads? Wool pads? (Rupes brand)

    and I’m still confused. If rotation does the correcting then why sell random? Just sell forced. Rupes says orbit is like 75% or more of,the correcting and rotation isn’t as important, BUT very good point about new cars and bodywork gets done with rotary.

    so confusing

  4. #34

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    Re: Polish/polishers, time to up my game. Let’s talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Stokdgs View Post
    I have not watched Brian at Apex very much, but I hear a lot of positive feedback about him..

    You only need 1 of these spacers for your Rotary.. Yes, you can connect as many as you want, but the spinning physics of the extra length will make it much harder to control the spinning backing plate and pad because of the longer distance to the machine..
    So, you are constantly adjusting for that reaction..
    Hey Dan, I just wanted to post this video by Brian of Apex Detail (one of several he has done on the rotary) where he is using several of those spacers stacked together where he says they are machined perfectly and he gets no vibration. I`m just posting to give cudos to Autopia and Apex more than anything and your post reminded me of the video.

    If this doesn`t automatically go to 4:38.. that is where he is using multiple spacers. He has fashioned a rubber tube around them to keep from scratching anything if he bumps it.

    https://youtu.be/tfwUJdk2blM?t=278
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  5. #35

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    Re: Polish/polishers, time to up my game. Let’s talk

    Quote Originally Posted by nan_wpg View Post
    I’m gonna buy some rupes new da pads. Good for long throw, or forced. Getting 5” for now so,they will work with my current machine. Still deciding on what machine.

    ‘’so now the question is what compounds to buy, and what pads, and how many?

    do I need corse and fine compound? Coarse and fine pads? Wool pads? (Rupes brand)

    and I’m still confused. If rotation does the correcting then why sell random? Just sell forced. Rupes says orbit is like 75% or more of,the correcting and rotation isn’t as important, BUT very good point about new cars and bodywork gets done with rotary.

    so confusing
    If you are going Rupes grab a couple of blue wool & blue foam pads, 4 yellow wool and 4 yellow foam pads, and the blue & yellow polishes. That should tackle about 95% of what you will see.

    I have used `systems` before, then switched to `mixed pads & polishes`. After talking with Jason Rose at the 2020 MTE, and trying the system there, I have been very pleased with the results. I did already have most of the stuff, but the new wool pads are great.

    For most swirl removals I use just Rupes yellow wool pads - it can be worked over a large area, using a little faster technique, the pad does not heat up, and it finishes fine.

  6. #36
    dansautodetailing.com Stokdgs's Avatar
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    Re: Polish/polishers, time to up my game. Let’s talk

    Quote Originally Posted by jem7sk View Post
    Hey Dan, I just wanted to post this video by Brian of Apex Detail (one of several he has done on the rotary) where he is using several of those spacers stacked together where he says they are machined perfectly and he gets no vibration. I`m just posting to give cudos to Autopia and Apex more than anything and your post reminded me of the video.

    If this doesn`t automatically go to 4:38.. that is where he is using multiple spacers. He has fashioned a rubber tube around them to keep from scratching anything if he bumps it.

    https://youtu.be/tfwUJdk2blM?t=278

    jem7sk -- Thanks for the reply and the link to Apex !

    Yes, a longer spacer can be used with a very small diameter pad, but as you go bigger diameters, then it is harder to control as you bring up the speed.. I like that he made something to go over the spacer so if it accidentally bumps into something, it won`t damage it..

    For those little places - especially under the door handle, (called the door cups), I have forever, just put a little Meguiars 105 compound on a clean, white, towel, and using 1 finger, get under the door handle and rub this across the area back and forth, and up and down.. This product works extremely fast and looks great afterwards..
    It removes all marks, light scratches (from fingernails) under there easily.. If you repeat the process, it might even look better..

    Again, just be really careful of the entire -Edge- around those areas.. There is very little paint on any -Edge-, remember that..

    When I am using the big Makita with my usual 5" backing plate, 5-1/4" pads, etc., and I come to edges, I just lift up on the pressure and go quickly past any edges.. Have never damaged an edge either by being mindful of them - all of them -...

    For the smallest of places where no pad is going to get in there, if I cannot get 1 finger with compound in there on a white towel, I carefully use the Pointed Q-tip and the same compound to -Carefully- work those little areas until the paintwork comes as close to -matching- the rest of the paintwork around them..

    Or sometimes, use a Q-tip with a very soft microfiber on it to carefully work those tiny areas, etc.. Do not use something too hard that will hurt the paint there, and then you have a bigger problem to deal with..

    Yes, some vehicles with a lot of letters, numbers, etc., on the back of the trunk lid, etc., take more time, but when it`s done, it all looks beautiful and most importantly - it all - matches-...

    I will never need to go buy all that stuff this guy at Apex uses. It all looks great and I am glad the technology has advanced so nicely.. It was great to watch this guy do all this !
    Dan F
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  7. #37

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    Re: Polish/polishers, time to up my game. Let’s talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Stokdgs View Post
    jem7sk -- Thanks for the reply and the link to Apex !

    Yes, a longer spacer can be used with a very small diameter pad, but as you go bigger diameters, then it is harder to control as you bring up the speed.. I like that he made something to go over the spacer so if it accidentally bumps into something, it won`t damage it..

    For those little places - especially under the door handle, (called the door cups), I have forever, just put a little Meguiars 105 compound on a clean, white, towel, and using 1 finger, get under the door handle and rub this across the area back and forth, and up and down.. This product works extremely fast and looks great afterwards..
    It removes all marks, light scratches (from fingernails) under there easily.. If you repeat the process, it might even look better..

    Again, just be really careful of the entire -Edge- around those areas.. There is very little paint on any -Edge-, remember that..

    When I am using the big Makita with my usual 5" backing plate, 5-1/4" pads, etc., and I come to edges, I just lift up on the pressure and go quickly past any edges.. Have never damaged an edge either by being mindful of them - all of them -...

    For the smallest of places where no pad is going to get in there, if I cannot get 1 finger with compound in there on a white towel, I carefully use the Pointed Q-tip and the same compound to -Carefully- work those little areas until the paintwork comes as close to -matching- the rest of the paintwork around them..

    Or sometimes, use a Q-tip with a very soft microfiber on it to carefully work those tiny areas, etc.. Do not use something too hard that will hurt the paint there, and then you have a bigger problem to deal with..

    Yes, some vehicles with a lot of letters, numbers, etc., on the back of the trunk lid, etc., take more time, but when it`s done, it all looks beautiful and most importantly - it all - matches-...

    I will never need to go buy all that stuff this guy at Apex uses. It all looks great and I am glad the technology has advanced so nicely.. It was great to watch this guy do all this !
    Dan F
    Thanks for the tips Dan.. I`ve just bought a 5" backing plate from Amazon and am looking forward to testing the rotary on the junk panels I have. I`ll definitely pick up one of those spacers and test it out along with some of the 105 if my Ultimate Compound is not enough to rub out, by hand or Q-Tip, the small areas you mentioned.
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  8. #38
    Hooked For Life Bill D's Avatar
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    Re: Polish/polishers, time to up my game. Let’s talk

    Ah, it`s good to have junk panels. I still have mine in my garage attic
    Treat it like it`s the only one in the world.
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  9. #39

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    Re: Polish/polishers, time to up my game. Let’s talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Stokdgs View Post
    I only use 5" backing plates and pads for 99% of all the paintwork, except for the small A, B,/C pillars between the side windows, etc... or perhaps that little painted strip across the top of some back glass like my `09 Grand Cherokee, etc.. On those narrow places I switch to a 3 or 4 inch backing plate and pad..
    Dan, I am curious why you use the 5" backing plates with your rotary? I have noticed through YT that you are not alone. I got mine in yesterday and put it on.. it was considerably smaller than the 7" that came with mine. I was just curious why a powerful rotary would do better with the 5" than the 7"? Thanks!

  10. #40
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    Re: Polish/polishers, time to up my game. Let’s talk

    This video from Mike Phillips might help you.

    https://youtu.be/mgCbAWfdNms
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  11. #41

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    Re: Polish/polishers, time to up my game. Let’s talk

    Quote Originally Posted by nan_wpg View Post
    I’m gonna buy some rupes new da pads. Good for long throw, or forced. Getting 5” for now so,they will work with my current machine. Still deciding on what machine.

    ‘’so now the question is what compounds to buy, and what pads, and how many?

    do I need corse and fine compound? Coarse and fine pads? Wool pads? (Rupes brand)

    and I’m still confused. If rotation does the correcting then why sell random? Just sell forced. Rupes says orbit is like 75% or more of,the correcting and rotation isn’t as important, BUT very good point about new cars and bodywork gets done with rotary.

    so confusing

    Orbit IS (circular) rotation. If the machine isn`t spinning your not going to get much correction.

    Can you point me to the article where rupes is claiming this?

  12. #42

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    Re: Polish/polishers, time to up my game. Let’s talk

    Quote Originally Posted by nan_wpg View Post
    I’m gonna buy some rupes new da pads. Good for long throw, or forced. Getting 5” for now so,they will work with my current machine. Still deciding on what machine.

    ‘’so now the question is what compounds to buy, and what pads, and how many?

    do I need corse and fine compound? Coarse and fine pads? Wool pads? (Rupes brand)

    and I’m still confused. If rotation does the correcting then why sell random? Just sell forced. Rupes says orbit is like 75% or more of,the correcting and rotation isn’t as important, BUT very good point about new cars and bodywork gets done with rotary.

    so confusing
    Quote Originally Posted by bad penny View Post
    Orbit IS (circular) rotation. If the machine isn`t spinning your not going to get much correction.

    Can you point me to the article where rupes is claiming this?

    Furthermore. If rotation doesn`t correct paint how do you (rupes) explain the rotary polisher?

  13. #43
    dansautodetailing.com Stokdgs's Avatar
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    Re: Polish/polishers, time to up my game. Let’s talk

    Quote Originally Posted by jem7sk View Post
    Dan, I am curious why you use the 5" backing plates with your rotary? I have noticed through YT that you are not alone. I got mine in yesterday and put it on.. it was considerably smaller than the 7" that came with mine. I was just curious why a powerful rotary would do better with the 5" than the 7"? Thanks!
    Jem7sk --
    Thanks for your reply !
    I have seen all the different sized pads and for the longest time, only 6 inch pads were the norm and still are in probably all auto body and paint shops..
    And of course the reasoning = bigger covers more area so you are done faster, etc...

    For my needs in my own shop, I tried the 5-1/4" pads, and found them more to my liking because they were much easier to control, they could get into smaller areas easier, they were easier to clean because of their size to me, and they were less expensive..

    Yes, a zillion people will say " those little pads will take longer to do the whatever vehicle, etc., and who knows if they really do?? I dont.. And I dont even care.

    When you do this long enough if you ever do this for a living, you may find your own "process" and decide that you rather like it that way..

    I still use bigger pads like the 6" guys, but only when I have to deal with something big or really hard to correct like any Airplane Paint or any huge, flat, thing, that will not require me to try to get that bigger footprint into smaller areas of the subject big honking plane, van, etc...

    Another thing I just thought of, some guys like to use big pads for correcting everything and then rather than clean them, they just throw them away, because they have just dirtied 60 of them, or they are so full of everything that came off the correction, and they wore them down to where they are pretty much useless anyway..

    The types of vehicles you detail all the time, may also help dictate what size pads would be better too..
    When I did nothing but all the Germans, Brits, and a few Italian vehicles, the smaller 5" footprint was just better for all those curves, fender bulges, strakes, etc...

    Lastly - the bigger pads Will require you to pay even more attention and watch where that bigger pad is touching - all of it - so you do not accidently rub M105, etc., against that beautiful non painted rubber window molding, etc...

    The need to tape or not to tape??? This should be another Poll topic...

    Dan F
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  14. #44
    dwaleke's Avatar
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    Polish/polishers, time to up my game. Let’s talk

    Quote Originally Posted by bad penny View Post
    Orbit IS (circular) rotation. If the machine isn`t spinning your not going to get much correction.

    Can you point me to the article where rupes is claiming this?
    I`ve too have seen Jason Rose of Rupes say that the primary mode of correction on their long throw machines is the oscillating orbit and not the rotating action.

    The rotation is the secondary mode of action.

    On their gear driven DA the primary mode of correction is the rotation and the secondary mode of action is the oscillating orbit.

    It`s in at least one, if not a few, of Rupes videos on their YouTube channel.

    I`m paraphrasing here. The words Jason used may be different but the meaning is the same (if you get what I mean).
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  15. #45

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    Re: Polish/polishers, time to up my game. Let’s talk

    Quote Originally Posted by dwaleke View Post
    I`ve too have seen Jason Rose of Rupes say that the primary mode of correction on their long throw machines is the oscillating orbit and not the rotating action.

    The rotation is the secondary mode of action.

    On their gear driven DA the primary mode of correction is the rotation and the secondary mode of action is the oscillating orbit.

    It`s in at least one, if not a few, of Rupes videos on their YouTube channel.

    I`m paraphrasing here. The words Jason used may be different but the meaning is the same (if you get what I mean).
    Sounds like gobbledygook. Oscillating orbit = rotation

    The ppl that make claims like this spend very little time behind a buffing wheel is my take from this

 

 
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