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  1. #1
    Mike The Guz's Avatar
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    Is Graphene the next big thing for coatings?

    This is going to be a long one so lets see who makes it to the end

    As stated in the title of this thread, is Graphene the next evolution of coatings or is all hype?

    We have all seen Graphene become the next buzzword in the world of ceramic coatings and all these youtubers praising how great it is as the next big thing while sort of writing off Silicon Dioxide coatings without any further test data. I attribute this to not having time and being sent various products to test out. So I am hoping to provide some feedback that is somewhat useful.

    Before I move on I will be referring to Silicon Dioxide coatings as SiO2, quartz or ceramic. All are interchangeable.

    At the time I am writing this, it is too soon to tell if Graphene will stick around as these products are in their infancy. Will it fade away in existence or will it survive the test of time like quartz based coatings.

    We have a multitude of coatings along with different variations of chemical make up these days. These coatings are tried and true and they are going to stick around for awhile. Graphene has a lot of work ahead to dethrone SiO2.

    Next we move onto pricing. Graphene is expensive and thus the product is expensive. At the same time these introductory products probably don’t contain too much Graphene. Again it is an expensive substance.

    A known fact is that quartz coatings are prone to water spotting. Not everyone has experienced this issue and those that have get disappointed due to wanting that perfect product. The holy grail. This is where Graphene coatings are claiming anti-water spotting. This may be true but only time will tell if this solves that issue. At the same time the current Graphene coatings are sacrificing hardness. Although not something to really focus on. For example SPS claims 7H while other coatings are claiming 9H and some even 10H.

    I originally wrote this review on the SPS Graphene Product sometime ago. Unfortunately I did not have it on long enough to really provide good information on.

    https://www.autopia.org/forums/detai...e-coating.html

    I then added it as part of my coating test comparing it to other coatings.

    https://www.autopia.org/forums/car-d...ng-1-test.html

    I decided it was time to polish my Grand Prix as the 21 month Cquartz UK 3.0 did it’s job. Such a great coating. I chose to go the SPS Graphene route to get more data and to see how well it would perform long term.

    I have a friend of mine who whispered into my ear that IGL is planning to release a Graphene coating through their authorized installer network. This got the wheels turning and asking “what if I use IGL F4 Renew as a primer polish?”.
    Those of you familiar with the product will come out and say, Mike you are crazy since IGL F4 states it is not to be used a primer polish. This is true. This product would fall in line with something like CarPro Essence. I thought to myself as soon as IGL releases their Graphene coating they are going to come out and say yeah F4 can be used as a primer. I even contacted IGL through facebook asking them if it would work with another Graphene infused product. All they said was no with no real reason. I read the back of the label a few times and IGL states F4 is not to be used as a primer for their Eco Coat coatings. Their eco coat line is all quartz based. Well SPS is not quartz based. So why not use them together is my way of thinking.

    This is the end result.



    So I proceeded with my course of action. I did the normal chemical and mechanical decontamination. Followed that up with Meguiar’s M210 on a Rupes yellow pad using carious Rupes tools. This was more than enough to remove the 21 month Cquartz UK3.0. M210 is impressive on its own and the gloss it was leaving was great. I followed that up with a prep wipe using Meguiar’s M122 Surface Prep. Came back with IGL F4 Renew on a Rupes white pad. Let that set up for a couple minutes after wipe off and then followed up with Meguiar’s M122 to remove any remaining residue without removing the deposited Graphene. Finished it off with two layers of SPS Graphene coating.

    The paint was in good shape. I gave myself a pat on the back for keeping the paint virtually swirl free for 21 months. I saw no defects under the Gyeon Prism Plus light on the silver paint. The swirls on the black pillars were minor.

    Before on the left and after on the right after using M210 on a Rupes yellow polishing pad. I took advantage of the minor filling from IGL F4 later on.



    The end result of all this work was a glossy and silky smooth finish.









    The paint was much brighter under the sun after after polishing and a fresh new coating.






    I am going to mention this. This is more of an experiment to see if these two Graphene based products play well together. Detailing in the end involves experimenting with products from time to time. This can sometimes result in a failed experiment or a successful one. I am not concerned with durability or longevity with this combination. We do still have the coating test where SPS is bonded to bare paint.

    A few thoughts on the products I used.

    Meguiar’s M210 is a very good polish. Easy wipe off and definitely less oils than M205. A little less cut but the finish from it is great.

    For IGL F4 Renew, the first thing is swap out the cap. It is terrible. The product itself is thin and rushes out of the cap. IGL needs to get rid of these caps. As far usability it is pretty straightforward. The minor issue is that it can be a pain to remove if it is left to sit too long or if there is excess product say when turning off the polisher. The overall finish is very good and the surface is nice and slick.

    SPS Graphene is nice to work with. It does not need long to sit once it can be wiped off. It does not rainbow like a typical coating. The overall finish it leaves behind is silky smooth and it gets even slicker the longer it cures. Think Gtechniq CSL/Exo combo or Gyeon Syncro, either Cquartz coating topped with Gliss, but on another level. It just feels different in a very good way.


    Thanks for reading through and stay tuned for updates along the way. I will be maintaining it with the SPS Graphene spray detailer. I also applied SPS to one of my wheels on January 25, 2020 to see how it holds up over time. So far so good.

    Application



    Walk around

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  2. #2
    Sizzle Chest's Avatar
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    Re: Is Graphene the next big thing for coatings?

    First, great write-up, topic, etc Guz!


    OK, I`ll throw my hat into the ring!

    I`ve been testing SPS`s Graphene coating on one of my vehicles for the past 10months. I just updated my review on here.

    I am continually impressed by this coating. The characteristics/properties are still going strong and are impressive at this date/time.

    I am a certified installer of SPS and 22ple coatings. I mainly use 22ple Mistico Elemento Forte as my primary coating. I have done a few client`s vehicles with SPS with excellent results. I`d put all of the top tier coatings into one basket as each of them have the properties and attributes that we are looking for. Some just do it in different ways-sheeting/beading/etc, etc...


    Now, onto the topic at hand:

    From MY experience I will say that yes, Graphene coatings, infused products, etc, will be the `next big thing` in our professions/passions. This could be two-fold: 1.) `We` are always looking for the latest and greatest and love buzzwords. 2.) `We` seek out products that work, are easy to use, and will give ourselves/our clients a positive experience both in the short and long term on their vehicles.

    Again from my experience, the particular product I used has impressed me greatly.


    My $.02!!!
    Scott Harle
    www.autodermatology.com
    Autodermatology
    Serving Naples and SW Florida
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  3. #3
    DaveT435's Avatar
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    Re: Is Graphene the next big thing for coatings?

    Nice write up Mike, definitely thinking outside the box, I was wonder why someone asked if F4 would be a good primer polish before Graphene on the SPS Facebook page.

    As I mentioned to you I recently used Slickback as a primer polish on my daughter’s car.

    I actually used another company’s base coat under one coat of Graphene on part of my wife’s truck to see how they play together. All three of our vehicles were coated within 6 weeks of each other so I’ll be able to get a good comparison.


    I’m interested in seeing how the Graphene does in the wheel test. I’ve only used SPS Metal Oxide on wheels and calipers.
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  4. #4
    Mike The Guz's Avatar
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    Re: Is Graphene the next big thing for coatings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sizzle Chest View Post
    First, great write-up, topic, etc Guz!


    OK, I`ll throw my hat into the ring!

    I`ve been testing SPS`s Graphene coating on one of my vehicles for the past 10months. I just updated my review on here.

    I am continually impressed by this coating. The characteristics/properties are still going strong and are impressive at this date/time.

    I am a certified installer of SPS and 22ple coatings. I mainly use 22ple Mistico Elemento Forte as my primary coating. I have done a few client`s vehicles with SPS with excellent results. I`d put all of the top tier coatings into one basket as each of them have the properties and attributes that we are looking for. Some just do it in different ways-sheeting/beading/etc, etc...


    Now, onto the topic at hand:

    From MY experience I will say that yes, Graphene coatings, infused products, etc, will be the `next big thing` in our professions/passions. This could be two-fold: 1.) `We` are always looking for the latest and greatest and love buzzwords. 2.) `We` seek out products that work, are easy to use, and will give ourselves/our clients a positive experience both in the short and long term on their vehicles.

    Again from my experience, the particular product I used has impressed me greatly.


    My $.02!!!
    Thanks for the update. It is nice to see someone with long term results using it. The thing that impressed me the most is the feeling of the coating as it cures and after it cures. The smooth and slick feeling seems to last quite a bit of time. It does have some of the tightest water beading.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveT435 View Post
    Nice write up Mike, definitely thinking outside the box, I was wonder why someone asked if F4 would be a good primer polish before Graphene on the SPS Facebook page.

    As I mentioned to you I recently used Slickback as a primer polish on my daughter’s car.

    I actually used another company’s base coat under one coat of Graphene on part of my wife’s truck to see how they play together. All three of our vehicles were coated within 6 weeks of each other so I’ll be able to get a good comparison.


    I’m interested in seeing how the Graphene does in the wheel test. I’ve only used SPS Metal Oxide on wheels and calipers.
    Thanks Dave and thanks for setting me with them to be an authorized user. So someone else did ask about F4 on the SPS page. Do you recall what was said?I will have to check it out. I figured it would be a good idea to try them out together. I can tell SPS went on it just fine because the surface tension changed. SPS is slicker that F4.

    It will be interesting to see how your testing goes.

    I will definitely update you on the wheel test. I have been using the spray detailer every other wash and both work well together. I will ping you more about Metal Oxide to get some more info on it. I plan to test it out at some point.

    On a side note I did see it on my coworkers car in the parking lot at work before the pandemic hit. I have to say for me not maintaining it and him just taking it to a hand wash, it has been holding up well. It does have minor swirling but the gloss is still there.

    https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...ona-392-a.html
    Competition Ready Team 1929 Bentley
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  5. #5
    DaveT435's Avatar
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    Is Graphene the next big thing for coatings?

    Someone came back and said it wasn’t a prep polish. I mentioned the Slickback test then someone mentioned that you had posted about the F4 as a prep polish.
    You welcome for setting you up. Glad I could help. Your work is incredible and reflects positively on SPS.
    Glad your co workers car still looks good.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  6. #6
    Ummm.... Ya..... TroyScherer's Avatar
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    Re: Is Graphene the next big thing for coatings?

    I have been researching and reading up on use of Graphene in coatings. While I see that there appears to be good factors in the use and integration I also think its fairly early in the process to think its the next big thing. The % ingredient in current coatings is fairly low making me wonder if its the Graphene doing the work or the other additives? Also the fact that currently its mostly "Pro Only" seems to be counter intuitive to it being the next big thing. Currently I think the % ingredient needs to increase drastically and there needs to be real long term durability and usage at the normal consumer level. Thats a problem where all these "Pro Only" coating have so little in the way of documented long term usage and reviews from the end user not just the detailer applying them.



    The more detailing I do the the more coatings I use I am really starting the question the
    "Pro Only" model for "top tier" products. If the coating is that good why not get it into as many hands and users possible? Unless there is some super special cure lamp or something that is required. And even then if people are willing to go to the trouble then it says something about the coating. In reality its the polishing and the prep where the real "Pros" shine and make their money. And from what I have seen the warranty stuff on coatings is just a worthless piece of paper with way to many rules and reasons to not honor the warranty. The real Pros stand behind their work and are their own warranty.
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  7. #7
    FunctionalDoc's Avatar
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    Re: Is Graphene the next big thing for coatings?

    THE GUZ

    I was reading somewhere that since graphene coatings are lower on the hardness scale will they be more susceptible to scratching from routine washing or road debris then SIO2 coatings ?

    I think the graphene also read will maybe the king of hydrophobic properties.

    I was also wondering is Car Pro , Fireball and , TAC Systems all one in the same company or some how are they related?

    I appreciate all the testing you have done.

  8. #8
    dansautodetailing.com Stokdgs's Avatar
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    Re: Is Graphene the next big thing for coatings?

    Quote Originally Posted by TroyScherer View Post
    I have been researching and reading up on use of Graphene in coatings. While I see that there appears to be good factors in the use and integration I also think its fairly early in the process to think its the next big thing. The % ingredient in current coatings is fairly low making me wonder if its the Graphene doing the work or the other additives? Also the fact that currently its mostly "Pro Only" seems to be counter intuitive to it being the next big thing. Currently I think the % ingredient needs to increase drastically and there needs to be real long term durability and usage at the normal consumer level. Thats a problem where all these "Pro Only" coating have so little in the way of documented long term usage and reviews from the end user not just the detailer applying them.



    The more detailing I do the the more coatings I use I am really starting the question the
    "Pro Only" model for "top tier" products. If the coating is that good why not get it into as many hands and users possible? Unless there is some super special cure lamp or something that is required. And even then if people are willing to go to the trouble then it says something about the coating. In reality its the polishing and the prep where the real "Pros" shine and make their money. And from what I have seen the warranty stuff on coatings is just a worthless piece of paper with way to many rules and reasons to not honor the warranty. The real Pros stand behind their work and are their own warranty.

    It is Marketing.. They used to just require you to have a business license, perhaps pictures of your work, etc., good reviews from Clients, years of experience, etc.

    Then, it got to "you have to pay much more, and we are going to send you much more product = a finishing compound, plus the coating, etc.,. that you have to pay for, or we will delete you", kind of business..

    I think they like to make it for "Pros" only because that is a Captive Audience, they think this group will have the $$$, become dependent on them, and will sometimes, do anything to stay in the group..

    The inexperienced user who purchases the most expensive Pro coating and does everything Wrong, will be calling them about returning it and a refund.. The real Pro will not be doing this as often, if ever, unless the coating is really a disaster to start with, no ??

    Yes, it seems to make more sense to sell it outright to everyone, but the old, old, old, tired, marketing model of the 50`s, 60`s, still prevails !!!!
    ""We have something "special" and only "certain" people can have access to it.""

    So in the end, the "Pro" is Selling their "Pro" product for them, will take the heat/blame/etc., most of the time for any problems, and will always be THE Warranty to the Client, while the Company gleefully rolls along pushing their products on you whether you like it or not..
    This might be the ultimate Pyramid scheme of all time !
    Dan F

  9. #9
    William_Wallace's Avatar
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    Re: Is Graphene the next big thing for coatings?

    We should start a betting pool on next company to come out with a graphene coating... can’t use IGL... I would hope carpro,

  10. #10
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    Re: Is Graphene the next big thing for coatings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stokdgs View Post
    It is Marketing.. They used to just require you to have a business license, perhaps pictures of your work, etc., good reviews from Clients, years of experience, etc.

    Then, it got to "you have to pay much more, and we are going to send you much more product = a finishing compound, plus the coating, etc.,. that you have to pay for, or we will delete you", kind of business..

    I think they like to make it for "Pros" only because that is a Captive Audience, they think this group will have the $$$, become dependent on them, and will sometimes, do anything to stay in the group..

    The inexperienced user who purchases the most expensive Pro coating and does everything Wrong, will be calling them about returning it and a refund.. The real Pro will not be doing this as often, if ever, unless the coating is really a disaster to start with, no ??

    Yes, it seems to make more sense to sell it outright to everyone, but the old, old, old, tired, marketing model of the 50`s, 60`s, still prevails !!!!
    ""We have something "special" and only "certain" people can have access to it.""

    So in the end, the "Pro" is Selling their product for them, will take the heat/blame/etc., most of the time for any problems, and will always be THE Warranty to the Client, while the Company gleefully rolls along pushing their products on you whether you like it or not..
    This might be the ultimate Pyramid scheme of all time !
    Dan F
    I think this is driven more by the professional detailers than manufacturers. Pros don’t want hobbyists to be able to get the exact same product they are selling. You have guys out there charging 1500-3000.00 and more. We all know there are a lot of us hobbyists who can put out the same level of finished product. If they’re installing the EXACT same product it’s going to be awfully hard for a pro to be able to justify charging a customer 50-500% more. Case and point we used to be able to get Opti-coat 2.0 but the pros complained because they were having to compete with hobbyists.
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  11. #11
    Ummm.... Ya..... TroyScherer's Avatar
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    Re: Is Graphene the next big thing for coatings?

    @Stokdgs

    I was one of those early users that got to use the original Opti-Coat and had great success. I like it so much I did 1 customer car. At the end of the day I was the warranty and I had to back up the work. I was really disappointed when they decided to go "Pro Only" especially when the Pro shops that did crap work then started selling the work and it diminished the overall rep in my opinion.



    Quote Originally Posted by DaveT435 View Post
    I think this is driven more by the professional detailers than manufacturers. Pros don’t want hobbyists to be able to get the exact same product they are selling. You have guys out there charging 1500-3000.00 and more. We all know there are a lot of us hobbyists who can put out the same level of finished product. If they’re installing the EXACT same product it’s going to be awfully hard for a pro to be able to justify charging a customer 50-500% more. Case and point we used to be able to get Opti-coat 2.0 but the pros complained because they were having to compete with hobbyists.
    @Dave

    If the "Pro Detailers" are the ones that drive this change I don`t think the
    y are looking at their markets correctly. Us hobbyists that are this deep into detailing know what we are getting ourselves into and know the work involved. We are not the target market for the "Pro Detailers" business. Many of us would only ever do our own vehicles or maybe just a few customers. But our market share is so much smaller than what the "Pro" can do. And at the end of the day most of us hobbyists are the ones out there giving the long term results and praise tot he coatings.


    I will go back to what I said befor
    e:

    In reality its the polishing and the prep where the real "Pros" shine and make their money. And from what I have seen the warranty stuff on coatings is just a worthless piece of paper with way to many rules and reasons to not honor the warranty. The real Pros stand behind their work and are their own warranty. If they are worried that I can buy and use the same product as they can then they should be more worried about if I decide to open up a detailing business because they are worried that I am better then they are.




    So when can I actually get SPS or any of these new Graphene coatings? And when will we have a system where you can put down the Si02 coating as a base and then a Graphene topper that gives us the best of both options.
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  12. #12
    DaveT435's Avatar
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    Re: Is Graphene the next big thing for coatings?

    Quote Originally Posted by TroyScherer View Post
    @Stokdgs

    I was one of those early users that got to use the original Opti-Coat and had great success. I like it so much I did 1 customer car. At the end of the day I was the warranty and I had to back up the work. I was really disappointed when they decided to go "Pro Only" especially when the Pro shops that did crap work then started selling the work and it diminished the overall rep in my opinion.





    @Dave

    If the "Pro Detailers" are the ones that drive this change I don`t think the
    y are looking at their markets correctly. Us hobbyists that are this deep into detailing know what we are getting ourselves into and know the work involved. We are not the target market for the "Pro Detailers" business. Many of us would only ever do our own vehicles or maybe just a few customers. But our market share is so much smaller than what the "Pro" can do. And at the end of the day most of us hobbyists are the ones out there giving the long term results and praise tot he coatings.


    I will go back to what I said befor
    e:

    In reality its the polishing and the prep where the real "Pros" shine and make their money. And from what I have seen the warranty stuff on coatings is just a worthless piece of paper with way to many rules and reasons to not honor the warranty. The real Pros stand behind their work and are their own warranty. If they are worried that I can buy and use the same product as they can then they should be more worried about if I decide to open up a detailing business because they are worried that I am better then they are.




    So when can I actually get SPS or any of these new Graphene coatings? And when will we have a system where you can put down the Si02 coating as a base and then a Graphene topper that gives us the best of both options.
    Thanks for your opinion. You have yours and I have mine. When the whole Opti-coat thing went down there was a lot of discussion about this subject.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  13. #13
    Mike The Guz's Avatar
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    Re: Is Graphene the next big thing for coatings?

    Quote Originally Posted by TroyScherer View Post

    So when can I actually get SPS or any of these new Graphene coatings? And when will we have a system where you can put down the Si02 coating as a base and then a Graphene topper that gives us the best of both options.
    Google artdeshine.
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  14. #14
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    Re: Is Graphene the next big thing for coatings?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveT435 View Post
    I think this is driven more by the professional detailers than manufacturers. Pros don’t want hobbyists to be able to get the exact same product they are selling. You have guys out there charging 1500-3000.00 and more. We all know there are a lot of us hobbyists who can put out the same level of finished product. If they’re installing the EXACT same product it’s going to be awfully hard for a pro to be able to justify charging a customer 50-500% more. Case and point we used to be able to get Opti-coat 2.0 but the pros complained because they were having to compete with hobbyists.
    You would think in 2020 the DIY market is able to over take the pro on bringing in profits. Did not know that about opti stopping sales of 2.0 based on pressure. The market probably made sense back then to do that but right now it’s the opposite.

    Now opti has more competition in the pro range IGL, Modesta, Gtechniq, C-pro Feynlab who have prob gobbled up potential customers.. if they were interested in making a great deal of money re introducing new version of opti 2.0. Would bring them up to date in the ceramic line where they are competitive again.

    I learned coatings by using gloss coat but it cannot compete with CQUK better gloss, beading, longevity and price 30mls Vs gloss coat 1 year 10mls for $60. I might be wrong and people still buy and use gloss coat but they seemed to have lagged behind and are over do for a new coating.
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  15. #15
    dansautodetailing.com Stokdgs's Avatar
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    Re: Is Graphene the next big thing for coatings?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveT435 View Post
    I think this is driven more by the professional detailers than manufacturers. Pros don’t want hobbyists to be able to get the exact same product they are selling. You have guys out there charging 1500-3000.00 and more. We all know there are a lot of us hobbyists who can put out the same level of finished product. If they’re installing the EXACT same product it’s going to be awfully hard for a pro to be able to justify charging a customer 50-500% more. Case and point we used to be able to get Opti-coat 2.0 but the pros complained because they were having to compete with hobbyists.
    DaveT435- Tks for your comments..

    So, if the really great hobbyists wanted to go through the nosebleed of having products pushed on you (remember Amway?), and were able to get access to the newest, best, Pro, coating, what do you think they would charge their Clients ? A lot less than the Pros ?

    I used a lot of OptiCoat 2.0 in the big syringe years ago, and it was a great product.. I never knew about people complaining enough to somehow cause a big company to change their own business plan marketing strategy to keep them happy, etc..

    In any event, the huge amount of product out today is here to come and go, and more and more on the horizon!
    Dan F

 

 
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