Spider Webs vs. Swirls

**FreeBIZZ** · 05-31-2006, 06:49 AM

Can anyone explain the difference in appearance and cause between Spider Webs and Swirls?

I have a new red VW GTI that I just detailed with clay, PB PWC-Blue, and PB EX-2 coats, and in bright sunlight I can see some very fine lines, not round circles. Would these be webs? I cannot get them to show in a picture, but I have posted pics at :
http://www.detailcity.org/forums/the...st-detail.html

What is the best way to either mask or remove these fine lines? I have the following products available, and have a PC with ornage, white, black and blue pads.

3M Finesse-It
PB SSR2.5
PB SSR1
Klasse AIO

I really don`t want to order any more prod., but would consider buying something OTC to correct this problem. It`s too bad you can`t see them in the pics.........you can only see them in bright lite up close. At first I thought they were what everone calls swirls, but as I look more, the shape is not a swirl shape, and the lines are super-fine.

Your input/advice is much appreciated.

Thanks

**JaredPointer** · 05-31-2006, 07:38 AM

I believe that swirls originally related to what is sometimes called hologramming that is installed by using a rotary. It has been used generically to describe marring as well, such as cobwebbing. Cobwebbing or spiderwebs or __________ generally refers to fine scratches in the clear, either in a straight line or in a rounded "swirl" pattern. I think the terms and surface defects are often interchanged on the boards.

The best way to get rid of them is to polish them out (rounding down the sharp edges of the marring). Use a polish/pad combo of your choice. As always, try to start with the least aggressive combo first in a test area and see if it will do the trick. If you do have to step up to more abrasive polishes & pads, remember to work your way back down to a finishing polish/pad combo to really burnish the paint.

If you are using a random orbit machine, such as the PC, remember that it may take some time, and that all the marring may not be removable. It sounds like you should be able to remove what you have. Just keep in mind to move the PC slowly and allow it to break the polish down. Don`t get in too big a hurry, and exercise some patience, and I think you should be able to remove the marring that you have.

P.S. Not everyone will know what you mean by saying that you have blue, orange, etc. pads. You would be better off by describing the pads function, such as cutting, polishing, finishing, etc.

**lonewolf0420** · 05-31-2006, 07:53 AM

Well said.
SSR2.5 and a light cutting pad worked pretty well for me. I was able to remove most swirls and a substantle amount, but all cobbwebbing. Even some bad overspray issues I had. Its all about trial & error. Try different pads w/different product.
Remember patients is the Key.

**FreeBIZZ** · 05-31-2006, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by JaredPointer

I believe that swirls originally related to what is sometimes called hologramming that is installed by using a rotary. It has been used generically to describe marring as well, such as cobwebbing. Cobwebbing or spiderwebs or __________ generally refers to fine scratches in the clear, either in a straight line or in a rounded "swirl" pattern. I think the terms and surface defects are often interchanged on the boards.

The best way to get rid of them is to polish them out (rounding down the sharp edges of the marring). Use a polish/pad combo of your choice. As always, try to start with the least aggressive combo first in a test area and see if it will do the trick. If you do have to step up to more abrasive polishes & pads, remember to work your way back down to a finishing polish/pad combo to really burnish the paint.

If you are using a random orbit machine, such as the PC, remember that it may take some time, and that all the marring may not be removable. It sounds like you should be able to remove what you have. Just keep in mind to move the PC slowly and allow it to break the polish down. Don`t get in too big a hurry, and exercise some patience, and I think you should be able to remove the marring that you have.

P.S. Not everyone will know what you mean by saying that you have blue, orange, etc. pads. You would be better off by describing the pads function, such as cutting, polishing, finishing, etc.

Thanks, Jared---------the first detail on the car I used:
PB-PWC-Blue with a PC and a white polishing pad to apply, combo MF Bonnet and MF towle to wipe off.
PB EX applied with PC and LC blue ultra finishing pad, wiped off by hand w/MF towel.

My pads are Lake Country in order of most to least agressive:
orange-light cutting
white-polishing
black or gray-finishing
blue-ultra finishing

**Maxima Lover** · 05-31-2006, 01:01 PM

Well since they won`t show up in a picture, you could probably start with SSR2.5 with a polishing pad. If that didn`t work, you could step it up to a cutting pad. After that use SSR1 on the polishing pad > PwC > EX x2. Let us know how it ends up.

**FreeBIZZ** · 05-31-2006, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by Maxima Lover

Well since they won`t show up in a picture, you could probably start with SSR2.5 with a polishing pad. If that didn`t work, you could step it up to a cutting pad. After that use SSR1 on the polishing pad > PwC > EX x2. Let us know how it ends up.

thanks----I`ll try another photo shot to see if I can get a close-up so ya`ll can see. i`m a little cautious about using the ssr 2.5 as I`ve read this can cause more swirls that I`ll then need to remove with ssr1----is this true in your experience, or are you saying that because i`ll use a polishing pad with it, it should be ok?

thanks

**lonewolf0420** · 05-31-2006, 03:46 PM

You could get a little light hazing from the SSR2.5. Thats why you follow up with SSR1 if need be. When I was a newb with a PC SSR2.5 was 1st product and I still use it with success.

Just remember PATIENCE!

**FreeBIZZ** · 05-31-2006, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by lonewolf0420

You could get a little light hazing from the SSR2.5. Thats why you follow up with SSR1 if need be. When I was a newb with a PC SSR2.5 was 1st product and I still use it with success.

Just remember PATIENCE!

thanks lw-420

**Beercan31** · 05-31-2006, 06:03 PM

Here are some sever examples of Holograms/ swirls

They were posted by so gti on the Meguiar`s forum, Mar 18th, 2006 at 11:34 AM

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/sho...ight=holograms
all credit goes to the original poster.

Like JaredPointer said the words Holograms, swirls, are so universal.

Micro-marring, spider web are the other that are universal

Again these are sever examples, but they look all the same, the hologram gets its name by the way it refracts light as you can see from the photo first posted, a swirl would be less intense but looks pretty much the same. same as Micro-marring and spider webbing they are much the same but one can be less intense.

Hope this don`t add to the confusion.

**FreeBIZZ** · 06-01-2006, 06:40 AM

I definetly do NOT have the conditions in oyur 1st link-holograms. I could not see the pic you posted for the 2nd one under spiders/swirls, so I don`t know about that one.

Thanks

**Beercan31** · 06-01-2006, 04:17 PM

ok let me try it this way:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2.../BeforeNXT.jpg

**proplaya** · 06-02-2006, 06:44 AM

I think the super-fine lines may be from using a cheap microfiber or pressing too hard with the towel. If this is the case each time you buff out the lines they will just return after you remove your product, so i would look into that before trying to polish them out again. Also, try using a halogen light to take a picture of the lines you are showing, those usually show everything, even in pictures.