(Yet Another) M205 Review

**SuperBee364** · 10-13-2009, 01:39 PM

I started using M205 shortly after it came out last spring. Unfortunately, I *stopped* using M205 shortly thereafter. In fact, I had to quit detailing for several months, but yesterday I was able to get back in the game, very anxious to pick up where I`d left off with M205

I have done about 8 cars with 205 now, with paint hardness varying from corvette rock to Porsche soft. Not a ton of cars, to be sure, but I was very particular in my use/experimentation/results on each one.

To say that I`m impressed with 205 would be a gross understatement. I have been a die hard Menzerna fan. So much so, that I even got a temporary Autopia ban due to letting my Menzerna passion get the best of me. So to have a product come along and just blow the doors off of my Menzerna equivalent(s) is something I don`t take lightly. In my opinion, M205 is the very finest polish in it`s class on the market today. I do have to put one qualifier on that: I haven`t used *every* polish in it`s class, but I am working on it.

So I guess I should say that M205 is the finest polish of it`s kind that I have used. Yeah, that`s better...

So what class is M205 in? I`d consider it an SIP or Power Finish Class. On the lighter side, possibly even PO106FF. And 205 wipes the floor with em all.

I first started using 205 with a DA buffer, based on the short version of the KBM method. I was extremely impressed with the amount of correction it could accomplish, while finishing out extremely well. OTOH, I was *not* impressed with how it worked via rotary. On all but the very hardest clears, I was unable to get M205 to finish out holo-free. This is the *only* ding I have to give 205: *with a rotary* it can be difficult to get it to finish down without holos. Not a problem with a DA, but I`m not able to get quite as good a shine finishing by DA as I can with a rotary.

That brings us up to yesterday. I recently moved to a new city. Our garage is still stuffed with moving boxes, so my car has been parked in the driveway or on the street (or in the airport`s long term parking) for well over a month. The water here is even harder than the water from where we came: HARD! My car was covered in hard water spots.

Time for the Autumn detail!

I prepped with a full Hi-Temp Prep Wash bucket-n-mitt wash. I then clayed with Ricardo clay and ONR as lube. This removed the actual mineral deposits, but I was disappointed to see that there was quite a bit of clear coat etching. This was going to be a good test of 205`s correcting ability, for sure.

So the paint`s condition was mediocre. Some wash induced marring, some clay marring, quite a bit of hard water etching, and a passenger door that had been scraped up by the movers. It was covered in RIDS. Supe wasn`t happy, for sure.

M205 was applied by rotary with an Edge 2k red wave foam six inch pad, two applications. The first application was strictly for defect removal, using about 1k to 1.2k RPM`s and moderate pressure. The next application was the finishing or "jeweling" application. I started at 1k RPM, increased to 1.5k rpm, then backed down to 1k rpm for the final couple passes, all using just the weight of the buffer. After each application, I used a terry cloth towel to wipe down the face of the pad. I think this is a very important step to using M205 or M105: keep the face of the pad completely clean. Keep the pores open, and free of polish or clear coat. If you do this, you will get great results and increase the defect removing power by a ton. Using terry cloth seems to remove the stuff out of the pores of the pad better than an MF. For me, at least.

I used one pad to do two applications on the entire car. Yup, one pad. Here`s what it looked like when I was done:

I`m kinda embarrassed that there`s black stuff on it, but it`s from accidentally touching my black vinyl super bee stickers while buffing. My punishment for not taking the time to tape off the stickers.

Notice, though, that the pores are completely cleaned out. Once a pad is properly primed, if you keep the pores cleaned out like this, there`s really no reason to change pads, especially since a primed pad works so much better than a fresh one.

Proper pad priming and keeping the pores cleaned out really seem to be key to success with 105 and 205. I was able to finish out entirely holo free, but again I gotta put another qualifier on that statement: my paint is pretty darn hard.

So how did the 205 really perform? It completely removed all the defects, hard water etching, all the wash and clay marring, and did a darn fine job in diminishing the RIDS on the door. All in two applications with a zero bite foam pad. I am beyond impressed. It is so easy to use this stuff. Easy, easy, easy! And the results...for the level of gloss it leaves, you just wouldn`t expect a polish to be able to do such a high level of defect correction. 205 doesn`t leave a FPII or 85RD level of gloss, but to expect it to would be unreasonable, as it`s not even in the same class. It does, however, leave a PO106FF level of gloss, but it has far, far more correcting ability than 106. It is also far easier to use than any of the Menz products. Not to mention about half the price!

I did an OCD hologram inspection afterward in bright sun. I used Prep Wash QD style to remove the M205 residue, and I followed that up with an IPA wipedown. I really wanted to make sure there wasn`t any residue hiding any grams. Nada. Nothing but gorgeously shiny paint.

Hopefully, me changing things up a bit on how I used the 205 was the reason for finishing out holo-free, but I have a feeling it might also be because my paint is pretty hard. Next week, I`ll be doing the wife`s Toyota (pretty soft paint) the same way. If the Toyota finishes out holo-free, I`ll be ordering 205 by the gallon.

Other stuff about yesterday`s detail...

I gotta throw in a quick prop to Prep Wash. Until yesterday, I hadn`t actually been using the product correctly. I`d been using it as part of a traditional wash. If I had bothered to actually read the directions, you can (and are supposed to) use it the same way you`d do an IPA wipedown: spray it on the paint, and wipe it off with an MF. Seriously good stuff.

I followed up with one coat of FK1 1000P. Then put on a second coat this morning. IME, it seems like the first coat of 1000P gives you a good, sealant kinda look. Then additional coats give the "thicker clear coat" effect, with three coats being optimum. 1000P also does seem to get much more durable with additional coats. More so, it seems, than a lot of other LSP`s. One coat of 1000P seems to last a couple months, but three coats last longer than I can keep from touching the paint and either putting on more or switching to a different LSP.

I`ve seen a few threads about guys having trouble removing 1000P residue, and honestly until yesterday I thought you guys were nuts; I have always applied the first coat of 1000p with a DA, and have *never* had a problem removing the haze. Unfortunately, the doc says I`m still not allowed to use a DA yet, so I applied the first coat by hand. I had a heck of a time removing the residue. I can`t seem to apply it as thinly by hand as by DA. Today`s second coat went much easier. No doubt, though, that 1000P is best applied by DA for the first coat.

Lastly, using a good clay and lube really is important. ONR and Ricardo clay were able to remove some seriously bad water spots with minimal marring.

**Pats300zx** · 10-13-2009, 01:51 PM

Great post SB. I missed seeing your posts. I have my bottle of 205 ready to go. I really need to break it out and give it a go.

FK1000P??? What no Vintage?

**Strokin04** · 10-13-2009, 01:58 PM

Thanks for the write up, some really good information.

**SuperBee364** · 10-13-2009, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by Pats300zx

Great post SB. I missed seeing your posts. I have my bottle of 205 ready to go. I really need to break it out and give it a go.

FK1000P??? What no Vintage?

I`m soo busted. :p

But yup, the Vintage gets put away for this winter. I`m going to do a long term test on the 1000P again this year, and it`s going to be under much tougher conditions than last year. My car isn`t going to see the inside of a garage until next spring, and it`s going to get driven more than twice as much. If the 1000P makes it til spring, it`ll be amazing, for sure.

The wife`s SUV is going to do a similar experiment, with one coat of 426 and one coat of 845.

My money is on the Colllinites out lasting the 1000P, but we`ll see.

Until next spring, the Vintage languishes in the refrigerator.....

**Cleaning Fool** · 10-13-2009, 02:40 PM

Missed your posts. Good info! Glad your back and hopefilly healthy

**imported_ZimRandy** · 10-13-2009, 03:16 PM

How much more cut do you think a white pad would offer? I`m just getting into my bottle of M205 and haven`t had a lot of time to experiment with it. If the white would offer a decent cut and finish off nice, it might make a good one step product.

**Thomas Dekany** · 10-13-2009, 03:32 PM

:2thumbs:Nice review!!!!:2thumbs:

**Dsoto87** · 10-13-2009, 03:34 PM

awesome post supe. im curious about which lsp you used prior to the water spots.

glad youve recovered, well atleast enough to detail a bit

**SuperBee364** · 10-13-2009, 04:10 PM

Thanks, guys, it`s good to be back detailing again.

Originally Posted by ZimRandy

How much more cut do you think a white pad would offer? I`m just getting into my bottle of M205 and haven`t had a lot of time to experiment with it. If the white would offer a decent cut and finish off nice, it might make a good one step product.

I honestly don`t know how much more cut you`d get with a white pad. I`m sure some of it would be dependent on how hard the paint is you`re working on, but I`m always hesitant to finish out with anything other than a no bite pad, cause I tend to get holos with anything else. Especially on softer paints.

Originally Posted by Dsoto87

awesome post supe. im curious about which lsp you used prior to the water spots.

glad youve recovered, well atleast enough to detail a bit

Thanks.

My car hasn`t had any LSP on it for a long, long time. The last time it was waxed was sometime in May, I think. That`s how the water spots were able to get such a good toe hold on my clear coat.

**superchargedg** · 10-13-2009, 05:41 PM

How do you think it will work with the flex.

**Greg Nichols** · 10-13-2009, 06:08 PM

Dang you superbee! You moved 5 hrs from me and now we cannot product test together. I do have a gallon of 205 and am going to retry it, but the first time it was a PITA for me. I new batches are better, so thanks for the motivation to get my car 205ied for the winter with a new sweater of 1000P topped with pink wax for the winter.

Take care buddy, and am totally stoked you are feeling better and back flying!

Cheers,

GREG

**Carticular** · 10-13-2009, 06:50 PM

I absolutely love M205!

**SuperBee364** · 10-13-2009, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by superchargedg

How do you think it will work with the flex.

I dunno, man, there`s kinda mixed feelings about KBM method and the Flex 3401 DA. Some guys have said that the Flex works great, but gmblack3a said it didn`t work so great for him, and that he prefered the PC over the Flex for KBM and M205. You might be thinking that the buffer in my pic is a Flex 3401, but it`s not. It`s a 3403 rotary.

Sorry if that threw you off a bit. With the 3403, I have to be very careful about not spinning it too slow with too much pressure. It over heats fast if I do that.

Originally Posted by Greg Nichols

Dang you superbee! You moved 5 hrs from me and now we cannot product test together. I do have a gallon of 205 and am going to retry it, but the first time it was a PITA for me. I new batches are better, so thanks for the motivation to get my car 205ied for the winter with a new sweater of 1000P topped with pink wax for the winter.

Take care buddy, and am totally stoked you are feeling better and back flying!

Cheers,

GREG

Thanks, Greg, it *is* good to be back... detailing and flying. Anytime it gets too cold and snowy up there in northern Utah, you`ve got a warm place to detail here in the sunny south. It was *perfect* detailing weather here yesterday and today. We need to take full advantage of the southern Utah climate this winter and do some serious product evals.

**Make it shine!** · 10-13-2009, 07:05 PM

Great post and very informative review!

What did you use to prime your pad 205 or a QD of sorts? I have seen a few different answers but very interested in what you used.

Thanks!

**David Fermani** · 10-13-2009, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by SuperBee364

So what class is M205 in? I`d consider it an SIP or Power Finish Class. On the lighter side, possibly even PO106FF. And 205 wipes the floor with em all.

It`s a great product via DA for buffer trail removal after compounding. If you want to bump up the gloss even more, try using 85RD after via rotary. I was blown away last weekend on a grey metallic Bentley with it. :shocked