Documented Concours Prep (long - pics)

**Accumulator** · 08-05-2003, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by russ968

...the mind-set that I had enough paint to "push it" a little with the cleaner/polish steps...

And you STILL decided that you "only" removed 60% of the marring

. Ya know, if that car`s REALLY a "keeper", I think I`d try to just live with the marring. Consider that you might be polishing it for another few DECADES and that once you repaint, it`s not "original" any more. Playing with other waxes and/or more applications of PS (Nick T. did an interesting "spit-shine"-style application experiment) might help you hide the remaining marring.

BTW, I just have to grin EVERY time I see your Rat Fink avatar :xyxthumbs

**AMP01** · 08-05-2003, 12:04 PM

russ968,

That is one S W E E T Porsche!

Great job showing all the steps you took to make your red beauty shine!

I too really like Souveran as a topper! It seems to add that extra touch of wetness to the paint, especially on red and black.

Congratulations on your 1st prize and keep up the great work! :xyxthumbs

Cheers,

My Black 7 Series

**JPS911** · 08-05-2003, 12:49 PM

Ok...so I`m missing something...how is a brush to wash a good thing? Obviously it is...look at the car...but can someone help me out?

**russ968** · 08-05-2003, 02:26 PM

Using a brush on your car`s paint...hmmm...:nixweiss counter intuitive the first time I heard about it. I knew a guy who prepared older show cars years back and he suggested I give it a try...never returned to using mitts or sponges. The theory is the bristles in the brush will not scratch the surface, unlike many other washing instruments that have polyester in their make-up or in the threads that they are sewn together with all with the capability to scratch on their own. In addition, again theory, the bristles will not trap any scratch producing particles against the paint again creating scratches, swirls or microabraisons.

My opinion is I scratch my cars less...at least in this phase. The truth is use what you like I suspect results with good quality mitts, etc. are equally good.

Here`s what Griot`s says about his brushes...

100% BOAR`S HAIR CAR WASH BRUSH. A SAFE WAY TO CLEAN

This brush is probably the safest way to clean surface grime from your car`s exterior. Boar hair is the only natural hair that can keep its shape without falling limp when soaked with water. Other "horse hair" brushes are stiffened with nylon which, like polyester, can scratch your surface. Manufacturing this brush is very time consuming. First you have to catch and shave a boar! Then each hair is hand collected, lined up with the split ends out and placed by hand into the hard plastic block. The ends are then flagged (splitting the ends again) to make them even softer. Just a quick shake in water will free the dirt, letting it drop to the bottom of your bucket. I use it for windows, trim, and all painted surfaces. 12 inches long and made to last years. Manufactured in the U.S.A.

Clearly no affiliation as I just sent a bunch of his stuff back but this and several other products from him I like.

Keep us posted on your progress and if you need any help send me a PM.

Russ

**russ968** · 08-05-2003, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by Accumulator

And you STILL decided that you "only" removed 60% of the marring . Ya know, if that car`s REALLY a "keeper", I think I`d try to just live with the marring. Consider that you might be polishing it for another few DECADES and that once you repaint, it`s not "original" any more. Playing with other waxes and/or more applications of PS (Nick T. did an interesting "spit-shine"-style application experiment) might help you hide the remaining marring.

Yeah...the car is a keeper and I`m going to live with the marring. I really didn`t take off much paint and I truly think that was the first time it had "really" seen a cleaner polish. I mean you have to look for the defects and I would take off far too much paint to truly fix them, so I`m going to try to slightly improve it every year or so when I polish from now on.

I was a Concours judge on Sunday and we judged a `67 912, all original 172K miles, with the original owner who had only hand washed/polished and waxed for the past 36 years...car so sweet just made you want to cry...great shine yet he had a spot on the top of a rear fender where he`d finally worn through the paint...I`ll be cool with that in 37 years

I`ll check out Nick T.`s post and I think I`m going to experiment with products that are mild fillers on top of Klasse and see what I get.:nixweiss

BTW, I just have to grin EVERY time I see your Rat Fink avatar :xyxthumbs

You`ve just got to have a soft spot for Ed "Big Daddy" Roth...he made cars and customizing them his life...and came up with these wild cartoons when I was a kid...just makes you wanna laugh. :lol

**Onehole** · 08-05-2003, 03:37 PM

Originally posted by russ968

.....Clearly no affiliation as I just sent a bunch of his stuff back but this and several other products from him I like.....

As a matter of interest what Griot products did you send back and which were keepers?

I have also tried the Griots Wash brush, but did think I was getting some micro scratches from it. On a darker car (seal grey) with clear coat, I think it will scratch....but very very mildly. So I have gone back to the lambswool mitt.

Haven`t sent the Brush back yet, but its good to know I can at some point and get my money back

**russ968** · 08-05-2003, 03:52 PM

I sent back the machine polishes. It isn`t that they were bad I just felt the 3M & Megs equivalents were better. I do like many of the Griot`s line of products and their service is excellent as well. I particularly like their interior cleaner, car wash, wheel cleaner, rubber cleaner and the brushes to name a few.

**Corey Bit Spank** · 08-05-2003, 03:58 PM

Very good job. I love that car.

**Accumulator** · 08-07-2003, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by russ968

...we judged a `67 912, all original 172K miles, with the original owner who had only hand washed/polished and waxed for the past 36 years...car so sweet just made you want to cry...great shine yet he had a spot on the top of a rear fender where he`d finally worn through the paint...I`ll be cool with that in 37 years

....You`ve just got to have a soft spot for Ed "Big Daddy" Roth...he made cars and customizing them his life...and came up with these wild cartoons when I was a kid...just makes you wanna laugh. :lol

Yeah, that 912 is the sort of car *I`D* really appreciate.

Heh heh, you`re dating yourself with the Ed Roth stuff...and so am I

as *I* remember that stuff from *MY* childhood!

JPS911and JB- As russ968 said, it`s counter-intuitive, BUT the brushes work if you have the patience and self-discipline for them (and use a high-lubricity soap). Sorry, that sounds sanctimonious/self-righteous and I *DONT* mean to come across that way (at least this time

)

[thread-hijacker voice:] Up on my soapbox Re Boar`s Hair Brushes!

*IF* you use the BHB correctly (don`t let the vehicle get too dirty for too long, use no real pressure, rinse after every pass, etc.) it DOES NOT MAR regular automotive paint (that`s a disclaimer because there`s some AWFULLY soft paint out there), especially most clearcoats. I`ve looked under VERY harsh lighting and with magnification. I give a lot of the credit to the brush`s free-rinsing nature. NOTHING gets caught up in it, it all rinses out.

Someone (maybe ScottWax, can`t remember) tested one out on a black BMW and was surprised that it DID NOT mar the finish.

The risk (and where the self-discipline comes in) is that it`s just SO tempting to do a whole panel before rinsing, or to push down just a LITTLE bit, or to otherwise "cheat". Also, whenever you let a car get so dirty that the dirt "bonds" with the surface/your wax, you`re at risk no matter what you use. And yep, I`ve put some micro-marring on a few of my cars with one, my fault, not the brush`s. I would`ve done it with my mitts, too.

I sent a few of them back because the bristles were contaminated with the epoxy used to set them. Swirl-city if you didn`t notice it before using. I also returned a "flow-through" brush. Got some micro-marring from it on (very soft single-stage but NOT when I used it on the C5) that spooked me. Its bristles were just too stiff, even when wet. I`d test ANY brush, when wet, and make sure it won`t scratch (it shouldn`t). You DO have to replace them eventually, the flagging at the ends of the bristles wears away. I keep my old ones (from the early `80`s!) for use on other people`s cars that are gonna get the FCRC-type treatment anyhow. End of rant....

**Onehole** · 08-08-2003, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by Accumulator

......it`s just SO tempting to do a whole panel before rinsing....

Given the size of the brush and the amount of soap it holds, it kind of defeats the purpose to rinse it after just one swipe?

My car is never dirty much when it is washed anyway. There just is not enough dirt on the car to cause any serious marks from poor washing technique.

I did however notive lots of fine scatch marks under lights, all very uniformed in the direction of the way I used the brush. :nixweiss

...so I have decided to hold off using it. It was also a little too big to be uesed on my Boxster...too many small places that I still needed to use a mit.

When the concours season finishes I might revisit it and try your suggestions.

**Murf300** · 08-08-2003, 02:09 PM

I have to ask about the flares in front of the rear wheels. The thin rubber strip that is between the panel and flare...How did you keep from getting anything on that during all of your steps? Things like this drive me crazy as I always manage to get polish, wax, or something on them and get a nice white smudge.

Killer job by the way!

**russ968** · 08-08-2003, 03:50 PM

Good question Murf...

I will typically come within 1/8" to 1/4" of rubber strips like the one you`re referring to. I then, if necessary, follow by hand. I have burned a spot by bumping the pad against a hard rubber trim piece. Boy was I bummed. That said, the more I use the PC the better and more confident I get with it so I can now be pretty accurate with how I use it.

You know I`m finding todayÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s better, more recently developed products don`t stain rubber like the stand-bys from the old days, like from 1997

. Seriously, I find Pinnacle and Blitz, the two waxes I now use, do not leave a white residue. In addition the Klasse twins in my brief experience are safe around trim as well.

Thanks for the kind words,

Russ

**Accumulator** · 08-09-2003, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by JB in Irvine

Given the size of the brush and the amount of soap it holds, it kind of defeats the purpose to rinse it after just one swipe?

Well, my method would be even MORE of a hassle with a smaller brush! I`m pretty paranoid about wash-induced swirls. Since the dirt doesn`t migrate too far up the bristles (and there`s no nap for it to get caught up in like with a mitt) I want it off the brush ASAP. And I just BARELY touch the finish with the tips of the bristles, like whisking the surface (I honestly think I`m "rinsing" it clean as opposed to "scrubbing" it). Also, I always do each panel more than once.

FWIW, there ARE some paints that are just too soft for a BHB. AND, no, I don`t use it on my S8, despite its hard paint. But then the method I use on IT takes several hours

Russ968- You DON`T have trim-staining issues with Blitz?! And FWIW, I use the K twins and Souveran on trim intentionally.

**russ968** · 08-09-2003, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by Accumulator

Russ968- You DON`T have trim-staining issues with Blitz?!

Well, I`ve used Blitz on the wife`s black BMW for the past couple of years and have not had any issues with rubber trim. I`ll say I`m careful and I keep a damp MF and Griot`s rubber cleaner close by so I guess we`ll have to attribute this to the skill of the applicator,

.

**Accumulator** · 08-09-2003, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by russ968

....I`ll say I`m careful and I keep a damp MF and Griot`s rubber cleaner close by so I guess we`ll have to attribute this to the skill of the applicator, .

Yeah, I`d say that has a lot to do with it