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  1. #16

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    Yeah, based on a few PM`s nobody seemed to get my old one:

    "Hold my beer and watch this!"

    Where I`m from, <strong class=`bbc`>everybody[/b] knows that`s a redneck`s last words!
    "I have not failed. I`ve just found 10,000 ways that won`t work."

    - Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)

  2. #17

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    I define slick as the lack of grabbing mfs when QDing or something like that.



    you no when the MF or cotton towel keeps sliding down the hood.



    Maybe we need to define terms???



    Autopianictionary???? Any linguists or what ever the word is for dictionary editor??

  3. #18

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    A SMOOTH finish comes from claying or using abrasive products. Abrasives will SMOOTH the finish out with each application. Clay will also smooth the finish out by reducing the amount of fallout / contamination that is embedded in the paint. I suppose.....for argument sake.....that a strong enough chemical cleaner COULD contribute to paint smoothing too. If you use a non abrasive sealant or wax over a non clayed "rough" surface, it will still be rough......I don`t care how many coats you put on. It will be slick though...."slippery." Make sense?



    So now we all know what "smooth" means. "Slickness" to me is when I can throw a towel on the hood of my car and it just falls off due to the slickness and low friction of the paint surface. This should be evaluated before quick detailing. As we all know, a quick detailer will give shine and slickness to a paint surface, treated with wax or not.



    On to dusting. There are 2 main things that contribute to additional dust pickup over another product, all other things being equal. One is the use of oils in a product, and the other is a static charge on the paint.....



    Hope this helps.........

  4. #19

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    Let me preface this with a quick note -- I have almost no chemistry background.



    That being said, wouldn`t a loss of slickness be a very strong indicator of a decrease in the amount of product on the car and thus a decrease in durability, protection, and on a smaller scale, shine?



    If a surface is slick (run an MF against glass, that`s what I mean by slickness) after the application of any product, and then some time later after whatever the car has gone through, I would think of at least two possible reasons:



    1) There are contaminants attached to the paint. Not very likely that so many would attach and be invisible in a few weeks` time.



    2) Product has deteriorated or been partially removed in some fashion! This could either be from abrasion or just from the product mysteriously disappearing by losing its bond to itself or the surface it is attached to!



    Note #2 -- I have not used Blackfire.



    I personally do not at this moment classify Blackfire as being in the same class as Klasse and Zaino and others as long lasting appearance improving sealants. It seems more like a polymer wax-type product to me. Not to say it doesn`t have its advantages, it sounds like it could be a great product. The actual results just seem to not be matching up with all of the "pre-release hype."

  5. #20

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    DK,



    Since you have more of a scientific background than I do I have a quick question. Could there be oils in BlackFire Paint Protection that give it the deep shine? This would be the reason for the dust pickup and possible the loss of shine after a few washes? (oils being washed away from surface)



    Sorry if it sounds like an ignorant question, but I was never very good at things like chemistry.
    Taking my signature to it`s MAXIMUM POTENTIAL

  6. #21

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    Is it required by law to have an MSDS available? We could have a look at that!



    Showroom -- Sounds like a perfectly reasonable question to me.

  7. #22

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    ain`t this fun.



    I vote DK autopianictionarian

  8. #23

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    Call me dumb but could it have something to do with the type of polymer they are using causing the dust issue?

  9. #24

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    <blockquote class=`ipsBlockquote` >

    <em class=`bbc`>Originally posted by DETAILKING [/i]
    <strong class=`bbc`>... "Slickness" to me is when I can throw a towel on the hood of my car and it just falls off due to the slickness and low friction of the paint surface. This should be evaluated before quick detailing... [/b]</blockquote>
    That`s as good a definition/test for slickness as I`ve seen yet. As I said earlier, I plan on re-Blackfiring this weekend, including the polish.

    I will volunteer to perform the "DETAILKING-Towel-Sliding Test" weekly for the next few weeks. Couple of ground rules...

    - The test will performed after a wash & dry using BF shampoo, but before QD.
    - Test will include a MF towel and a terry towel.
    - As the horizontal surfaces of my car are almost exactly that, horizontal, I will park the car on the incline of my driveway. (Don`t ask me how many degrees the incline is. I`m not measuring. Suffice it to say it`s not vertical. :p )
    - As a baseline (and to hopefully placate those of you who I know will want me to measure the incline), I`ll perform an inital test after a Dawn wash (& dry).

    FYI - I clayed the car two weeks ago.

    If anyone has any changes/additions/deletions for the test, let me know. :xyxthumbs
    "I have not failed. I`ve just found 10,000 ways that won`t work."

    - Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)

  10. #25

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    Lets make our wagers now. As much as I love the shine and working with the product, when I wash (with BF) it is squeaky clean afterward.



    A neat phenomenon I noticed last week: the entire hood (vette pretty much the whole front end) held a sheet of water after rinsing with the nozzle off. It had that shimmering YS use to have as part of his VW`s picture. Gave real meaning to the wet look. When I picked up the hood to see if it would run off it didn`t.



    Word of the day "phenomenon", impressive!

  11. #26

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    Here are the baseline test results...

    Dawn-washed the car and carefully dried the hood. Put the car on a <em class=`bbc`>slight[/i] incline and tossed a couple of towels on the hood. They just sat there staring back at me.

    Applied BF polish and three layers of BF protectant with the PC. Stood there for five minutes tossing towels and catching them as they slid off. Man I hope the neighbors weren`t watching! :p

    Will post continued weekly results if anyone cares.
    "I have not failed. I`ve just found 10,000 ways that won`t work."

    - Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)

  12. #27

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    <blockquote class=`ipsBlockquote` >

    <em class=`bbc`>Originally posted by SouthernBoy [/i]
    <strong class=`bbc`>Put the car on a <em class=`bbc`>slight[/i] incline and tossed a couple of towels on the hood. They just sat there staring back at me.

    ... Stood there for five minutes tossing towels and catching them as they slid off. Man I hope the neighbors weren`t watching! :p

    Will post continued weekly results if anyone cares. [/b]</blockquote>LOL that was funny! I would be _very_ interested if this test changes its results in a few weeks -- I`d even be surprised with blackfire if it loses this much slickness!

  13. #28

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    I got kind of caught up in the whole trying-to-figure-out-Blackfire thing that I neglected to comment on how good of a review this was!



    Great job with the dust attraction comparisons with the carnauba, that is very interesting! Wax is very oily, I am surprised to hear BF grabbed more dust -- is this particular wax known for not attracting dust?

  14. #29

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    Hmmm, as good as BF sounds, could it be that BF is loaded with oils like a real carnauba wax? This might explain heavy dust attraction on BF`s part... and why the gloss seems to diminish after one or two washes.

  15. #30

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    <blockquote class=`ipsBlockquote` >

    <em class=`bbc`>Originally posted by puterbum [/i]
    <strong class=`bbc`>... Wax is very oily, I am surprised to hear BF grabbed more dust -- is this particular wax known for not attracting dust? [/b]</blockquote>
    To be honest, I don`t have anything to compare to when it comes dust attracting. I never paid particular attention until I saw the posts concerning BF and dust.

    The was I used was Zymol Volvo wax. Very similar to Carbon. Good stuff for carnuba, :xyxthumbs only problem I had was longevity during the hot summers down here.

    I should note that a major road construction project began a few weeks ago very near my office, so I`m getting more dust than normal. But that still doesn`t explain the difference between the BF and the carnuba. :nixweiss
    "I have not failed. I`ve just found 10,000 ways that won`t work."

    - Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)

 

 
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