White BMW Roundel?

[imported_capspackle]

Well, i will be getting the CMA pads either today or tomorrow.. so i will now be ready to use my PC..



I have two weekend projects.. My Pathfinder, and my father BMW. I need some advice on procedure of the products i have/am going to use..

I know upto a certain extent of the procedure based on previous posts, but would like to clarify.



1) Dawn Wash

2) Pinnacle Body Work Shampoo

3) Claying

4) 3m SMR/Scratch-X (couldnt find 3M SMR for light colored cars.. only dark.. so ill use SMR on BMW and Scratch-X on Pathy)

5) Pinnacle Shampoo wash again

6) PPCL

7) AIO

8) SG--layered probably 4-5 times

9) Top with #26 or Zymol Concourse.. not sure yet





hope this is sorta, kinda correct..



i remember reading a post on the speeds and pads recommended, but if possible, would like more opinion..



Ill apply the SG by hand, and remove with a MF towel..





Post as many replies as possible, so i can print this out, and tape it in the garage for future reference.

[DETAILKING]

reference this post for my reasoning...........

http://www.autopia-carport.com/forum...?threadid=8627


As I said before.....if you are going to do all that prep work, remove swirls, and get the paint looking nice, skip AIO, and go directly to SG. You can use PPCL if you want to, but even that is a bit overkill if you wash the car after swirl mark removing and before SG with car wash.

Using AIO after PPCL would be a waste to in my opinion.....for AIO is more aggressive than PPCL.

[imported_capspackle]

Thanks for the reference post..

I disagree with DK . I have gotten hazing from 3M SMR, so I WOULD use AIO to get rid of this haze or PPCL. I would probably just use AIO to get rid of the haze because it leaves the surface like butter, extremely slick. It also applies a layer of sealant! woohoo! Therefore I would skip PPCL and go for AIO. Get the hazing out and leaves a perfect surface for SG! I`m sure Don2000g will second my opinion :xyxthumbs .

[imported_Intermezzo]

Ali,



I kindly disagree with your kind disagreement with DK. This is taken from his referenced post:



"One thing I wanted to point out is that if you get the car looking great with SMR, I would skip AIO, and go right to the SG. Sometimes some minor marring occurs that AIO might help remove, but if you are using SMR with a PC you should be able to get the car looking almost perfect. At this step, I would wash the car again, and go right to SG, no need for more abrasives. Also, PPCL is not necessary either after SMR as long as you are happy with the way the car looks."

I H8 to say it but I believe in Don2000g. He told me not to skip AIO because it leaves the paint very slick and buttery. I believed him and he is definitely correct. In doing my friend`s BMW last weekend, I experimented on the hood. I did 1x 3M SMR and 1x Meguiars cleaner (red bottle). It was clayed prior to this so the surface was already smooth. I applied AIO to half the hood and SG to the other half. Buffed AIO instantly and let SG cure for an hour. You can FEEL the difference between the sides. But whatever, my opinion never seems to count here :down . Plus what is a 1 more application of an EXTREMELY mild abrasive going to do to the clear. Oh no, DK`s BMW clear coat will last 6 months longer than mine, who cares. The SG is protecting the clear, whats the big deal. Im so close to just forgetting about all this car care crap, its driving me nuts ...:scared

[vettefan67]

Either skip AIO or skip PPCL. I`d skip PPCL personally - I personally believe it may be milder chemically and more agressive abrasively.



IMO JMO YMMV and all that PC stuff we have to use to avoid disagreements like this

[imported_Intermezzo]

AlBoston,



No need to have a tantrum about this. Who gives cares about someone disagreeing with you? We all have a right to an opinion, don`t we?



Now try this sometime:



Find a panel and wipe it down with isopropyl alcohol to strip it of anything it may have. Examine it closely under bright halogen lights and make a mental note of all the marring/light swirls. If there aren`t any at all (almost impossible) then that`s even better. Now, apply a coat of AIO, buff and then re-strip it all using IP. Examine the area again under the same halogen lighting and see if you find any new marring. You might be surprised at what you see.



Now with that said, I`m all for using AIO as a way to rid your car of visible micro-marring from a previous polishing step.

[TonyTahoe]

I appreciate DK`s IMO about the AIO, but the PPCL might be something to consider, JIMO. But don`t discount D2Kg, he know`s his stuff.



And we all know that the SG and the AIO are engineered together so maybe they should be used after the SMR - staying away from the IHG naturally.



So I think I`ll use the PC with the SMR and then the PPCL and if all is good then some AIO and SG to finish. Topping with some OGB or PS.



I think this will work out great but YMMV.



YADA YADA YADA! LOL!:p :p

[DETAILKING]

AIO may feel more buttery smooth than SG because it is ABRADING the surface. I don`t care how slick a surface gets with a non abrasive product, it will not be smooth if it is used over contaminants.



If you read my posts, you would see that I recommended skipping AIO unless it was required to remove marring left over from SMR. If a PC is used, this problem should not occur and AIO is not required. The surface will already be buttery smooth using SMR since it is more aggressive than AIO. If SMR is used with a PC properly no marring should present.



I don`t know why anyone would want to use an abrasive product after busting their chops with a PC and SMR to get the surface perfect. Although you won`t see it, you ARE abrading the surface to some degree with AIO as Intermezzo stated. AIO even states on the bottle that it can be skipped if the surface has no oxidation on it and it is properly prepped. Read it sometime.



The same argument goes with waxes. You don`t see people apply zymol cleaner wax before Zymol carbon after using a SMR. That is what PREP is for! A product like PPCL can be used but using AIO after that is senseless since AIO is more agressive. If you had your heart set on using AIO, I would skip the PPCL step for sure after the SMR step. Make sense?



Anyhow, all of this is nothing more than a detailing philosophy. I want you to detail your cars in the safest and most practical way managable. I have heard of too many people who broke through their clearcoat using abrasive products over and over again. It is almost impossible to set out a recipe before you start when addressing swirls. You just have to use your product knowledge and use the best products for the job from start to finish as the project progresses. I still stand by my recent statements though.



For some more information on just how delicate your clearcoat is read this..........



".....Manufacturers have issued bulletins stating you must not remove more than 0 .3 (3/10) mil of factory clear coat. (A "mil" used to measure film thickness is equal to 1/1000 of an inch.)

Clear coat is dense or most solid only in the top 0.5 mil or so of paint film. Below 0.5 mil it is very porous and soft and will accept deep cuts into the paint film. Because polyurethane enamel clear coats are structurally a form of plastic, excessive heat created by wool fiber or foam pads softens the polymer material, causing it to expand and drive the scratches or cuts or swirls deeper into the paint film. SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) tests of 2K finishes have shown that this will happen if you heat the clear above 115 degrees Fahrenheit when buffing......"

[imported_capspackle]

Wow.. my intention was not to start this whole big argument..

all i wanted were some different opinions on what to use, and how to use it..



sorry about it guys..ill start to keep my mouth shut from now on..

[imported_Intermezzo]

Look what you did Pathfinder! hehe j/k



Nah, don`t worry about it. This AIO debate goes way back.

maybe if you read MY POST carefully, you would see that it was prepped correctly per your instructions (dawn wash, clay, normal wash, 3M SMR, lighter cleaner (meguiars), then AIO). DK and I are gonna duke it out when he comes up for the new england meet.

[vettefan67]

[Steve @ Guru]

1) AIO contains abrasives, no matter what the label says. Experiment yourself, and you`ll discover the same thing. One word of caution though, don`t just apply the product and then look at it, otherwise you`ll see the result of an abrasive with fillers. I`m not going to say how I test for abrasives, but trust me, AIO is abrasive (mechanically).

So, while it shocks me somewhat that you could feel the difference even after a clay, smr and meguiar`s cleaning, I`m not doubting anyone`s results. Lord knows that thewaxtest.com was very subjective, so I can`t cast any stones.

I often suggest that people use the P21S product after the normal prep (dawn, clay, wash, 3M, Meg) process, but I don`t use it to remove hazing - I use it to enhance the depth/color/gloss of the paint. In my abrasiveness tests, the p21s is very mild - little to no mechanical abrasives, and I`ve never had a problem with SMR hazing, but I do use a PC for that.

I`m surprised that the Meguiar`s didn`t remove and 3M hazing. That product (especially in the burgandy bottle) is <strong class=`bbc`>very[/b] strong when it comes to cleaning. It removed permanent magic markger (Magnum 44 marker) from our test panels. So, I`d think that the Meguiar`s would have taken care of the hazing and also made the surface even smoother than AIO would.

But, if the AIO made it even more smooth, it would indicate to me that it is even more abrasive and contains additional fillers, as that`s the only way that I know a liquid product could "clean" and "smoothen" (is that a word??) a surface...

Just $.02, hope it helps??