Reliability for lots of miles. (150k to 200k)

[Totoland Mach]

You might want to look at Mazda`s MPV series. I had a `91 and drove it for 15 years. Put a whopping 294,000 miles on it. I replaced the radiator and water pump, re-built the trans at 210,000 and normal maintenance items. Great vehicle and their pricing is pretty reasonable. I ended up selling it for $800 to a resturant for home delivery service....it`s still going.

[jdubb5005]

If price is an issue take a look at the lx model Odyssey. You lose alloy wheels, power doors and the radio is a little lower quality, but overall the engine and external components are all the same. Stay away from the 98 and older models though. Those might get you in some trouble. If I had to choose between the others I think I would go with the Ford. We had one for a little bit before there was no longer a need for a van. The ride was decent and no troubles from 50000-85000. The Odyssey is the way to go though. Get the 105,000 done and take a hit in the pocket book, but it will go for another 105,000 with no problems.

[CharlesW]

If price is an issue take a look at the lx model Odyssey. You lose alloy wheels, power doors and the radio is a little lower quality, but overall the engine and external components are all the same. Stay away from the 98 and older models though. Those might get you in some trouble. If I had to choose between the others I think I would go with the Ford. We had one for a little bit before there was no longer a need for a van. The ride was decent and no troubles from 50000-85000. The Odyssey is the way to go though. Get the 105,000 done and take a hit in the pocket book, but it will go for another 105,000 with no problems.

The Odyssey would probably be my first choice were it not for the fact that they cost almost twice as much on the market a couple of years old. They might be better, but I`m not convinced they are twice as good.

Like I said earlier and as you mention, price definitely is an issue.
From Edmunds Used Car Pricing Guide:
All 2002 models with 55,000 miles and comparable equipment. (Automatic, Power steering, brakes, locks, windows, CD player, etc.)
Honda LX Trade in = $14172, Private party = $15289, Dealer = $17242
Windstar Trade in = $8716, Private party = $9775, Dealer = $11699
Montana Trade in = $11136, Private party = $12420, Dealer = $14659
Montana SWB Trade in = $8993, Private party = $10045, Dealer = $11910
To me, that`s some seriouis difference. From $3,000 to $5,400. The higher price Montana is at a price disadvantage since it is only available with all the bells & whistles.
Hey, keep up the suggestions, I still am undecided.
Also, the Ford headgasket replacement would be $800 to $1000 rather than my $1500 to $2000 guess. (And probably wouldn`t be an issue with a 2002)

Charles

[jaybs02]

Hi Charles,
I`ll just throw in my $.02

I have had used cars most of my life and of all of them the Ford has been good to me (I don`t know if it`s luck or not :lol).

I believe that Ford had addressed the head gasket problem on the 3.8, the one thing that was a potential problem was the tranny, but that was somewhere around the 125-150k mark (but I was kinda hard on my cars :-p)
Also had a Nissan Quest (wifes car) that was quite reliable but that was a 95 or 96 model.

Not too much experience with imports, I like to buy American.

Good luck and happy shopping
"J"

[maximv1]

hey charles, here is what i know. i work at a g.m. dealership. thw montanas and ventures are great vehilces. there is actually a service bullitn in canada here on the intake gaskets for extended warranty coverage. i am not sure about in the u.s. so that might be some relief. as far as other vans, i am not a fan of fords or chryslers, i don`t like there looks and there reps aren`t the best. our local fibrenew rep has an older honda odessy van with no word of a lie, over 1,000,000 kms on the original engine. i couldn`t believe it. he says the timing belt is the worst part of those vans because they are expensive. next time he is in i will take a pic of his odomoter. also check with the local rental car companies. if the idea of owning a daily rental doesn`t scare you, when they reach about 40,000 km`s(in canada) they sell them dirt cheap to try to get rid of them rather then dealing iwth an auto auction. hope any of this helps you out. good luck

[torqueboxer]

Well I cant believe that no one meantioned one of the first minivans. The Chevy and GMC Astro-Safari. They have gotten a bit bigger over the years, but, they run on the proven 4.3L/ 700-r4, 10bolt drive train. Parts are plentiful, cheap, and any garage can work on it. They are available in a multitude of body options(plain jane rubber floormats-no windows to full out luxury conversions). They also come with a AWD option if you happen to have snow in your area. The local cable company (comcast) uses this model truck almost exclusivly with AWD for all of the service trucks. My friend works for them and has one for his truck. With all of the tool boxes, ladders, cable, electronics, his truck usually has 1000 lbs over its recommended GVWR and handles it with no issues. If I am fortunate enough to expand my detailing business to the point where I can buy a mobile setup I will buy a late model AWD Astro for the job. I also believe that the newer Astro chassis has a towing cap. of 4000-4500lbs.

[CharlesW]

We had a 1988 Astro van for several years and 165,000+ miles. It wasn`t near the vehicle, (for our use), that the Pontiac has been.
Multiple starters and alternators, (lost count), water pump, head gaskets twice, valve guides, see a pattern here? Then the rust showed up and the van was gone. From what I am being told, the AWD Astro is a really high maintenance vehicle.:dunno
I enjoyed driving mine, but my wife hated it. She has no problem with the Pontiac at all. Anyway, I think the Astro/Safari won`t be on my shopping list.

Charles

[Mr. Clean]

I inherited a `91 S10 Blazer (4.3l w/auto) which I handed over to my high school aged (at that time) son. He drove the wheels off of it (as in it didn`t ever sit still for long). Normal maintenance was performed (mostly on schedule). He had over 150K miles on it when it was totalled by an uninsured motorist. While it was a good reliable vehicle, it suffered from a common malady to those specific engines...rings. You can easily spot them after they have sat idle. Their initial ignition is signaled by a burst of blue smoke. It doesn`t cause any harm to the vehicle, but it is something that needs attention. Perhaps that problem has been resolved by GM by now. I don`t know because that is the only GM vehicle I`ve ever owned, and don`t generally follow their offerings.

[CharlesW]

The smoke on start up after setting for a while is a common symptom of worn valve guides and seals in the 4.3 motor. The oil runs down the valve stems and is burned off during the first few minutes of running. It can lead to excessive carbon buildup if not correctd. Mine didn`t consume enough oil to even affect the oil requirements between changes for me.

Charles

[rollman]

Does it have to be a mini van? You can pick up a new Honda Element 2wd for what a used Odyssey goes for. I know a used Element would be cheaper still. C&D did a long term test drive on the Element .

http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=7881

[CharlesW]

Does it have to be a mini van?

Based in having owned a mini-van of some type for about 18 years, I think we really do want to keep one in the family. Great for hauling about anything, rides decent, handles decent, gets decent mileage, yatata, yatata, yatata.

Charles

[WindSwords]

Just thought I would speak in defense of Chrysler transmissions. My understanding is that the problems that were initially encountered have been corrected and their transmissions are no less reliable than other makes (but you gotta use the right trans fluid - see below). The bad PR they got will last for years though, just like the Audi`s that suffered from the bad PR of "unintended acceleration", which ended up not being Audi`s fault but they paid the price for years afterward.

The following is from a great site, Allpar.com which is not afflilated with Chrysler:

Initially called A604 Ultradrive, this transaxle was the first, and for a long time the only, fully electronic transaxle, and it has come a long way from 1989, when every day a new service bulletin came out revising this part or that procedure...

Now called the 41TE (4 forward ratios, load range 1, transverse mount, electronic), this transaxle still sees duty in minivans and all other Chrysler front-drive transverse applications, like the Pacifica, Stratus/Sebring sedan, etc.

Some definitions are in order -- by fully electronic, I mean that pulse-width-modulated solenoids (remember the ratcheting noise early 604s made?) act directly on the different clutch sets to attain the different ratios. This allows for a simpler valve body assembly, compared to others where solenoids are on/off devices and only act to divert ATF to one shift valve or another. These solenoids are controlled by a dedicated module (TCM) that monitors and adjusts trans ops through several sensors, such as speed sensors on the input and output shafts, as well as monitoring engine data over the data bus.

There are no bands or mechanical holding devices (sprags, roller clutches, etc). All ratios are supplied by five different clutch packs (Low/Rev, Underdrive, Overdrive, 2/4 and Reverse). Compared to other domestic front drive transaxles like Ford`s AX4N or GM`s 4L40E, the 41TE is lighter, smaller and less mechanically complex while providing improved performance.

Finally, these electronic controls allow the TCM [computer] to monitor the transaxle`s performance and adjust solenoid actuation and timing accordingly with the goal of maintaining shift quality throughout the life of the vehicle.

The original A604 was a revolutionary development, but it suffered from Lee Iaccoca`s desire to rush it into production. It was the first electronically shifted hydraulic automatic transmission that used fuzzy logic to learn to adapt its shifting pattern to match the driver`s habits and tastes, as well as to compensate for internal conditions. No other automaker had attempted to replace the many valves and servos in a transmission with simple solenoids controlled by a computer. What`s more, Chrysler was often not followed by others in their use of a "limp" mode, to take the driver home even in cases of control failure. The limp mode deliberately restricted the driver to second gear so the vehicle would be serviced.

Chrysler reportedly put over a million miles of testing on the A604 before its first use in 1989, which is when they discovered that Dexron fluid was not good enough. However, the company did not make this clear to customers, saying that Dexron was good enough if their own fluid, ATF+3, was not available. Nor did they get the word out to oil change places and corner mechanics. As a result, many, many transmissions were destroyed. Even some dealers apparently told customers they could use Dexron. The result was a terrible reputation for quality - we have been told by one transmission rebuilding establishment that the horrific return/repair rate on their own transmissions fell to normal levels when they switched to ATF+3, and that was around ten years after the A-604 was first introduced!

Most of these transmissions are made in Kokomo, Indiana, which is reportedly working on a six-speed evolutionary version to go into the next-generation minivans.

Note: Chrysler is not the only company to require a unique transmission fluid. Dexron has long since passed its prime, and modern transmissions require modern fluids, which more refined properties. Toyota, Nissan, and other major automakers also require unique fluids.

Frank

[Ford_500]

Just my opinion, but I think the Honda and Toyota engines are extremely durable, but not totally trouble free. I also think the other Japanese auto makers have benefited a great deal from the Honda/Toyota reputation.

Charles

VW, Toyota, and Chrysler engines since 1996 have had a higher incidence of oil sludge problems than other makes. Automotive News, two years ago, well documented the engine seizure problem in everything from four cylinder Corollas to V-8 Lexus, due to oil sludge, with Toyota`s usually stellar customer service blaming the owners. Google "toyota oil sludge" for pages of links to the problems.

Honda has had engine fires due to improper oil filter torque specs, and some ongoing transmission failures. http://www.petitiononline.com/acura/petition.html
Honda recalls 600,000 minivans, SUVs

[sunstealth]

I would go with a 1985 dodge caravan 2.5 litres turbo with a manual tranny also my uncle had one and it last more than 280 000 kilometers when the head gasket gave up!

[CharlesW]

I would go with a 1985 dodge caravan 2.5 litres turbo with a manual tranny also my uncle had one and it last more than 280 000 kilometers when the head gasket gave up!

Not my thing, but you might be interested in this 1989 Caravan.

Having had a couple of Turbo AWD Talons, I can appreciate the fun of driving a turbo car. (or van)

Charles