do i need AIO with this setup?

[integraoligist]

Here is the setup i`m trying to figure out:



1. Clay: Auto Wax Company - Clay Magic Detailing Kit



2. Polish: Meguiers - #2 Fine Cut Cleaner

(need to take out swirls and level chip-touch-up`s)



3. Polish & Sealent: Klasse All-In-One

or

3. Sealent: Klasse Sealent



4. Wax: #98 Medallion Premium Paint Protection OR NXT Tech Wax OR FK1 Pink (havent figured out which one yet)







because i`m using the Meguiers #2, do i still go over it with AIO? or do i go right to the Klasse Sealent? OR can i just use the AIO as the Sealent as well?



i was planning on Layering as well, and hear that you should usually... Seal then wax.. then seal then wax... over and over again. correct?



Thanks all!

[RuffRyder]

I would personally use both AIO and SG. Also once you put your Wax on, SG won`t like it if you try to seal again. So I would go SGx3 (at least 12 hours apart) and then top with as many layers of wax as you like.

[imported_themightytimmah]

#2 is pretty aggressive stuff - I don`t mean to judge, but based on your level of experience, I`d go for something a little more user-friendly, like #83 DACP followed by #80.



From there on in, you have two choices. The #80 is going to leave a ton of oils behind, which leave the paint looking wetter, and IMHO better. Personally, I`d go straight to FK1 Pink, I love the stuff, and just layer Pink Wax until you feel like stripping it all the way down .



Your other pick is going Klasse Twins, using AIO which will remove all of the oils from #80 (NOT a good thing, IMHO), and then Klasse Sealant Glazing as many times as you like. Once you top KSG with a wax, however, you will not be able to layer it any more until you AIO again. Its very picky about what it wants to bond to, which is why I avoid the stuff for the most part.



Your layering choices are basically



Choice 1 (not my fave, might be good on a light car)

AIO

Klasse Sealant Glaze ad infinitum (I`d reccomend atleast 3)



Choice 2 (my fave, espicially on black)

FK1 Pink as often as you`d like



Choice 3 (middle of the road, a good compromise)

AIO

KSG until satisfied

then FK1 Pink as desired



You will not be able to seal over #2 or #3 again until you AIO it. I personally am not very pro-sealant, I only use them occasionally, and only on light cars. I`d pretty much reccomend against the NXT or #98, I feel theyre inferior to KSG and FK1 Pink. Everyones got their own opinion, however.

[buellwinkle]

Leveling chip touch ups is something you do with wetsanding, usually 500 grit using a hole punch and the dot glued to the eraser on a pencil, then 1000, 1500 and 2000 grit and then buffed. I agree on the #2, that`s rotary buffer heavy duty stuff, use the least aggresive product that will do the job, if Meg`s #80 works, use that, if not go to Meg`s #83 and work your way up or you will wear away at the clear coat and it won`t last as long. I`ve seen heavily swirled cars brought back to near perfect with just #80 although I don`t have the patience so I go straight for #83. By reducing the thickness of the clear coat you are removing the UV inhibitors that are part of the clear coat making the car get duller looking sooner.



What I like to do after buffing to add the oils back in and get that deep shine is to use Meg`s #7 and then 2 coats of NXT tech wax or any good wax over that.



To me, clay is optional if you are going to rotary buff anyway since it will remove all the contaminants in the paint better than clay anyway. Clay is what I do when I don`t want to buff but want to clean the paint.

[stevet]

Originally posted by integraoligist

Here is the setup i`m trying to figure out:



1. Clay: Auto Wax Company - Clay Magic Detailing Kit



2. Polish: Meguiers - #2 Fine Cut Cleaner

(need to take out swirls and level chip-touch-up`s)



3. Polish & Sealent: Klasse All-In-One

or

3. Sealent: Klasse Sealent



4. Wax: #98 Medallion Premium Paint Protection OR NXT Tech Wax OR FK1 Pink (havent figured out which one yet)







because i`m using the Meguiers #2, do i still go over it with AIO? or do i go right to the Klasse Sealent? OR can i just use the AIO as the Sealent as well?



i was planning on Layering as well, and hear that you should usually... Seal then wax.. then seal then wax... over and over again. correct?



Thanks all!

Topping SG with #98 or NXT is not something I would recommend. They both contain cleaners and will remove some if not all of the SG. Use a non cleaning product and wait at least 24 hours before topping.



It`s not seal than wax...then seal and wax over and over again. It`s more like seal and seal and seal until you have the amount you want than wax. Once you wax your sealing is over. If you want to apply sealant again you need to start over.

[integraoligist]

i`m workin on a Black `97 (as seen in my avatar) and the paint has never been cleaned.



so the swirls marks and blemishs are heavy... thats why i thought the #2 on the PC would be good:xyxthumbs ,,, i didnt know it was way to harsh. i`ll switch it over to Meg #80 and use on the PC...



themightytimmah , why do you NOT like Sealing on Black cars?



buellwinkle , i will be wetsanding with 2000 grit to level the paint out... as for buffing, is the #80 on the PC used for that as well?





stevet , what is the purpose of layering the Sealent instead of the wax? i hear it protects the paint... while the Wax creates a deeper and richer look to the paint... is that true? i`ve even heard of a lot of guys not using Wax, just layering the SG.





btw, do you all agree with buellwinkle about the clay? seeing as though i`ll be useing Meg #80, should i still clay before hand?

[buellwinkle]

Originally posted by integraoligist



buellwinkle , i will be wetsanding with 2000 grit to level the paint out... as for buffing, is the #80 on the PC used for that as well?

I`ve seen Mike Phillips work a 96 Mercedes E320 that was very heavily swirled by the body shop that painted it and a 2002 Mercedes C240 Black that heavily swirled and he brought them both back with just #80 and their medium cut pad.



Here`s a picture of the green car where he did half the hood. Notice the deep marring and swirling on the left. This is just with #80

[buellwinkle]

Here`s the black car, pretty heavily swirled left side and buff on the right and it looks really good after #80, almost looks like a different shade of black. Keep in mind the goal shouldn`t be 100% swirl free or you will drive yourself crazy, it should appear 100% swirl free to most people. I learned from experience on a black suburban we owned years back, I actually polished it down to the primer and had to get the hood repainted.

[DM101]

What is FK1?

[Accumulator]

integraoligist - Sealing a black car can make flaws jump out at you. Unless you can get it nearly perfect and then keep it that way, I`d just use a fillers/glaze/wax approach. Something kinda aggressive followed by the #80 topped with wax oughta look good.



You`re right about the wax/sealant differences. I use KSG (untopped) on one of our vehicles, but it`s marring-free and stays that way. On our imperfect vehicles I use wax. Can you layer wax? I`m not gonna go there, people get all opinionated about this topic...but try it and see if *you* like it FWIW, some sealants definitely layer. FWIW#2, I sure like the "wax look" better than the "sealant look" on black.



There`s a *new* version of #2 out that would be great for this, but it`s not widely available yet and you don`t want to use the older version.



I`d follow the 2K grit paper with 3K. FWIW, I`ve *never* needed anything stronger than 2.5K grit and I usually only use the 3K. Takes a little longer but it`s a lot safer than the coarse stuff. 3K scratches polish out fairly easily.



Do the claying first. It`ll remove contaminants that are best dealt with that way as opposed to with the abrasives in polishes.

[integraoligist]

ok, heres an update on the list... with a few more questions:





1. Clay: Auto Wax Company - Clay Magic Detailing Kit



2. Polish: Meguiar’s - #80 Professional Speed Glaze



3. Fill chips and scratches with touch-up paint, then sand via 2500 or 3000 grit (whichever i can find)



[b]4. Buff sanded areas:[b/] how do i buff?



5. Wax: FK1 Pink







How do i "buff" the sanded areas? should i switch #2 and #3, fill the chips then Buff using the Meg #80?





Accumulator , so far i`ve only been able to find 2000 grit locally (Pepboys)... when i order my supplies on-line i will attempt to find 2500 or 3000... i`d like to go with 3k like you said just for safty sake.



buellwinkle, the pic of the black car looks great... all they used was the #80 on it? didnt wax it or anything before they took the pic? diffrence is like night and day.





MDRX8, FK1 Pink is a wax... take a look here:

http://www.fk1usa.com/products-consumer.htm

it`s 2/3 the way down the page called "Pink Wax - Easy Paste Wax"

[stevet]

Originally posted by integraoligist



stevet , what is the purpose of layering the Sealent instead of the wax? i hear it protects the paint... while the Wax creates a deeper and richer look to the paint... is that true? i`ve even heard of a lot of guys not using Wax, just layering the SG.

The way you worded it in your first post it sounded like you wanted to apply sealant than wax and then sealant and then wax again over and over. This will not work. Sealants don`t do well over waxes. Thats why I suggested applying as many layers of sealant as you want and then topping with wax.

[jetskie]

There is nothing wrong with the original plan of using #2 as a polish to remove scratches and swrils, but you will need to follow up with #9 to remove the buffer marks. As far as touching up the paint do it after you wash and clay. You might want to spray the touch area with a alcohol and water mixture to remove any oil so the paint will stick. Then wait for the paint to dry and wetsand the areas as needed. After that is when I would start polishing the paint. #80 is not strong enough to remove sand marks, so you`re better off with your original plan of #2. After than do a follow up polish with #9 or #80 then you are ready for a sealant or wax. Of your original plan to top off the sealant the only one that will add any real depth and shine over the sealant is the Pink wax. Medalion and NXT has cleaners in them and also will probably not improve the looks of SG.

[integraoligist]

ok, updated:



1. Wash



2. Clay: Auto Wax Company - Clay Magic Detailing Kit



3. Fill chips and scratches with touch-up paint, then sand via 2500 or 3000 grit (whichever i can find)



4. Wash



5. Polish & Buff: Meguiar’s - #80 Professional Speed Glaze (or #2 Fine Cut... see below)



6. Wax: FK1 Pink







jetskie , you say to use Meg #2 to buff out the scratches from the 3000Grit sandpaper and swirl marks then go over again with #9... i.e. #80 is not strong enough...



however, themightytimmah and buellwinkle say it`s too strong, and go with the #80



Note, i do plan on using the PC to apply the #80 or #2... would the #2 be way to abbrasive on the PC? are you referring to the #2 by-hand?

[jetskie]

#80 is more agressive than #9. You want to use #2 to remove the sand marks from wet sanding as #80 is not strong enough to remove the sand marks. #2 does leave behind some buffer marks/hazing so you have to follow up with #80 or #9 to remove thoes marks. #2 is not way too agressive, but it is harder to work with compared to #83. Both are about the same in abrassiveness, but #83 has more polishing oil and might break down faster. In general #83 leaves behind a finish that is more ready for waxing. The reason why I mention #2 and #9 is that they are more readily available at a parts store. #83 and #80 must be bought at a auto paint store. They reason to use #80 is that it is a good swril remover and mild enough to use every 6 months. I just don`t think it works on sand marks. #2 is suppose to be used by a rotary, but Meguiars recently changed the formula to work with a PC. If you look at Meguiarsonline there has been some people who used the old formula with a PC with no problems. I find #2 works, but you must follow it up with an other polish to remove the hazing. #83 would be the better choice, but its harder to find locally.