not seeing the results I`d like just yet

**GroovinPickle** · 04-12-2005, 06:11 PM

A few months ago, I started doing some research on paint care, and began buying a few items to assist with that. I just found Autopia about a week ago, and thought I`d run some questions by the gurus.

The car is a 1999 BMW M3 in Estoril blue. My detailing arsenal so far consists of a PC 7424, a 5" backing plate, a set of pads (orange, white, and black from autogeek.net), a sufficient collection of MF towels, some 3M Finesse-It II, Klasse AIO and SG, and some Wolfgang clay and lubricant.

Regarding the clay, I`ve done a few sections that should be plenty contaminated (e.g. the hood), but I can`t tell much - if any - difference. I`ll admit that I haven`t studied claying technique much yet, as paint contamination isn`t my main concern.

The main problem seems to be very shallow scratches (can`t feel them with a fingernail) due to washing with a brush at a DIY car wash. I know now that this is a sin, but at the time I was unaware of the potential for damage. I`ve taken my PC to them, using the orange pad and AIO. After that didn`t yield any noticable gains, I moved to the Finesse-It II. This helped a bit, but there are still plenty of noticable scratches in direct sunlight. Honestly, the only person who will notice them is a detailing buff (no pun intended), but now that I know they`re there, I want them gone.

My technique for the PC involves putting 4-6 drops of polish around the edge of the pad, and then dabbing it around the area to be polished (usually about a 2`x2` area). I started off around speed 3 with really no pressure other than the weight of the PC, but after not seeing much effect from that, I`ve stepped it up to a speed of 4-5 with a slight bit of extra pressure. I spend about 3 minutes per section before buffing the polish out by hand with a MF towel. This has made a slight improvement, but I`m wondering if I need to try a more aggressive pad or polish, or if my technique needs some modification. Any advice?

**MongooseGA** · 04-12-2005, 06:55 PM

1) Nice car! My favorite color on the M3`s.

2) As for the claying situation, I don`t know what it could be. There should be a dramatic difference. There`s no real secret technique- it`s pretty fool proof. Maybe the car had been clayed recently? Was it detailed in the recent past?

3) AIO won`t do much for swirls.

4) Don`t be afrad to put the PC on speed 6. There`s a huge power jump from 5.5-6, as you may have noticed.

5) You might just need some more aggressive products/pads.

Hope this helped. :wavey

**GroovinPickle** · 04-12-2005, 07:15 PM

I quite like the color myself. Here`s a not-so-good picture of it:

Luckily I now have a garage, and it`s become a weekend/pleasure car.

I did notice the large jump in speed when I took the PC up towards 6. It scared me a bit, so I took it back down. Am I correct in thinking that I should go to a yellow pad and stick with the Finesse-It II rather than staying with the orange pad and trying a rubbing compound? What about pressure on the PC? Is the weight of the buffer itself enough? Am I spending enough time on each section?

**MongooseGA** · 04-12-2005, 07:34 PM

Adding pressure to the machine is all preference. Some people like to push hard enough to let the motor bog, then let it up just enough to let the motor run freely again. Other`s like to let the machine use its own weight to work. I`m somewhat in bewteen.

You could try a more aggressive pad with the same polish, or get a more agressive polish with the same pad. Work the polish for as long as is reccomended. I haven`t used the FI, so I don`t know if it flashes, powders, or just disappears. You may have to apply more polish to the pad and do the panel once or twice more. Each time you apply the product to the pad is referred to as a "pass". Sometime vehicles require 2-3 passes with one polish to become fully defect free.

**MongooseGA** · 04-12-2005, 07:35 PM

BTW, where are you located?

**GroovinPickle** · 04-12-2005, 07:42 PM

I`ll probably try a different pad, and perhaps hope that someone who uses 3M products will give me some pointers. I`ve heard that it takes FI-II a while to break down into an abrasive. I`ll also try using a bit more pressure.

I`ve lived in Mississippi for the past 6 years or so.

**hirosh** · 04-12-2005, 08:12 PM

you could also try doing a search. here`s some results searched for "finesse-it" `title only`.

i`m not too sure of who else uses this polish though.

**Accumulator** · 04-12-2005, 08:18 PM

For significant marring, I`d use a 4" pad. Works a lot better than the larger ones as the PC doesn`t bog down and merely "jiggle" when you put a little pressure on it.

I haven`t used FI-II for ages, but it works OK. Might have to follow up with something milder though.

Heh heh, I`ve had to do *dozens* of passes when I was trying to do rotary (or even Cyclo) work with a PC

It can literally take hours to remove some problems, but with the BMW (sorta soft)clear you should be able to do it.

FWIW, I`d use a 4" mild cutting pad and PI-III RC (05933) then a polishing pad with the same thing, then a polishing pad with PI-III MG (05937). Or you could try the new PI-3000 equivalents. Nothing really wrong with the FI-II though, plenty of people have done goos work with it.

**Don** · 04-13-2005, 05:03 AM

Originally posted by GroovinPickle

My technique for the PC involves putting 4-6 drops of polish around the edge of the pad...

That is one SWEET ride.

When you`re trying to polish out a defect, you need to make sure you have enough product to do the job. You wouldn`t expect 4-6 drops of glass cleaner to clean your windshield would you?

Try putting 1 or 2 thin (spaghetti-sized) `strings` of polish around the circumference of your pad, then start buffing you 2` X 2` area. I usually buff until the product becomes thin and greasy looking (like an oily smear) then wipe off and inspect the results.

**svntwosix** · 04-13-2005, 05:41 AM

Once the polish has broken down to become `greasy` looking is the polish no longer correcting any defects? is there any harm from continuing to use a PC after the product has gone greasy? (ie will it induce more swirls/scratches?) I just used my PC this weekend for the first time and I am trying to get a better idea of when I am `done` with each section, as well as learn when I am not getting any more results from a product.

Thanks-

**Accumulator** · 04-13-2005, 09:37 AM

Meg`s #80- work until it turns clear or pink

Meg`s #83- many say to work until it *does* turn to powder

Other stuff- the general rule is to work polishes until they`re almost dry, but usually *not* until they are completely dry/turn to powder.

**GroovinPickle** · 04-13-2005, 05:44 PM

Last night I went out and worked on a section of the car a little bit more. I used some more product (FI-II) along with a higher speed and a bit of pressure. I also spent more time on the section, doing many passes. There is a definite improvement, but not quite perfection. I`m at a bit of a crossroads in terms of whether I should go for that extra 10%. One thing that I don`t want to do is wear down too much of the clear coat. Is that an issue with aggressive pads (i.e. yellow) and products (i.e. rubbing compounds) with a PC?

**Accumulator** · 04-13-2005, 06:35 PM

That`s always a tough question to answer. Even for our *own* cars, let alone somebody else`s.

If you`re gonna keep it marring free, and that`s a huge "if", then maybe the extra work would be worth it. You can almost certainly get away with taking off the required clear, usually quite few time. But if it keeps gets marred again and again, every time you have that much *less* clear to work with.

At this stage of the game, where you`re just starting to get serious about your detailing, I`d stop at this point and try to *not* induce any new marring. Be careful when you wash and any other time you`re touching the car. See how your current, 90% finish holds up. If it gets some more marring, you`ll still have plenty of clear to last through the learning curve.