Water softener question

**imported_Mighty HD** · 04-04-2005, 09:51 AM

Is it safe to get a water softener if my house has galvanized pipe? The water here is pretty hard and would like to ease it up a bit, especially for the cars.

Also, does it cause the cars to rust prematurely?

**Accumulator** · 04-04-2005, 12:11 PM

I don`t *think* it will cause a problem with the pipes, my dad`s place had very old plumbing (pre-WWII) and he never had any trouble.

I haven`t had any rust problems, and my Jag would probably let me know in a hurry

But just to be on the safe side, I run Potassium Chloride instead of salt (sodium chloride) in the one that supplies the garage. The same places that sell "softener salt" usually have the Potassium Chloride stuff, under a name like "Nature`s Alternative" or something like that.

IMO you`ll love having a softener. We`d never be without one. I like the ones where you can adjust how they operate, to give a long "rinse cycle", for instance.

**imported_Mighty HD** · 04-04-2005, 12:45 PM

So I could use Potassium Chloride instead of salt eh?

My main worry is that the galvanized pipes would rust. Every few months we have to clean-out the screw-on water things on all the faucets. They all get small pieces of rust in them, thats why rust was my concern.

**Accumulator** · 04-04-2005, 02:44 PM

Yeah, we`re always cleaning out our aerators too, always some kind of sediment building up in there; if it isn`t rust it`s something else.

IMO you oughta talk to a (good and honest) plumbing contractor. But I`m pretty sure they`re gonna recommend the softener (or "conditioner" as they call `em).

**lucid696** · 04-04-2005, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by Accumulator

But I`m pretty sure they`re gonna recommend the softener (or "conditioner" as they call `em).

Conditioner is a better term for the action, since the water isn`t truly softer after being run through one of these. One salt swapped out for another (potassium/sodium chloride for calcium chloride) remains water with dissolved solids.

Now, whether they deposit on the paint is another matter, which is why they work to a great extent.

**Accumulator** · 04-04-2005, 06:34 PM

Originally posted by lucid696

One salt swapped out for another (potassium/sodium chloride for calcium chloride) remains water with dissolved solids...

Very true. There appears to be a huge difference in concentration of the solids though. I`d expected the conditioned water in the house (regular "softener salt") to be literal murder on our houseplants, but it`s been nearly 20 years and the plants are still fine.

When it comes to deposits, the solids from the conditioner *do* act quite different, as you pointed out:

Now, whether they deposit on the paint is another matter, which is why they work to a great extent.

Besides making for cleaner bathrooms in the house and fewer aerator clean-outs, when it comes to use in a detailing garage, I can say from first hand experience that the conditioners *do* make a huge difference. It`s not like you don`t get *any* waterspots, but between the better cleaning and the greatly *reduced* spotting, they`re really great IMO. And any spotting from the conditioned water wipes off *much* easier.

**lucid696** · 04-04-2005, 07:38 PM

I agree with your anecdotal results, I am just saying that truly soft water is devoid of dissolved solids--an important distinction if you want to know what is going on with your water...

Many people say they have softened water, but it really isn`t any softer than how they got it, from a chemical perspective. I guess that was my whole point--not terribly germane to the subject at hand, just a personal rant from dealing with many over the years.

**Accumulator** · 04-05-2005, 11:21 AM

lucid696- Heh heh, you`ll never get any [stuff] from me over being precise about things

The world would be a better place if people were more careful about using words correctly. Enough *incorrect* usage and it seems the definitions get changed to reflect the popular opinions

**imported_Mighty HD** · 04-05-2005, 12:01 PM

Very good advice guys. Hopefully in the next few weeks I can look into getting one. The water tastes like "metal" or if you drink it cold with ice, it tastes like a copper penny in your mouth. Yuck!

I`ve mastered speed-drying though!

**lucid696** · 04-05-2005, 02:58 PM

I hope things work out for you--the world always needs great -looking cars...

**scottlee** · 04-05-2005, 03:49 PM

from my understanding, and i could be wrong, the salt isnt added to the water, the salt is used to make a brine that in turn is injected into the mineral bed inside of the conditoner, softener, to release the * solids * or hardness as its called that are collected in the mineral bed, it is injected soaks and is back flushed down the drain minute traces of salt may remain but that is normally why the regeneration process is done in the middle of the night when household water is not being used so the brine doesnt get into the pipes that go to feed the house or water heater, if anyone tastes salt in their water with a water softener get it checked it most likely isnt working correctly

**lucid696** · 04-05-2005, 04:13 PM

Well, you are partially correct. The process involves trading out the Ca++ and the Mg++ ions and exchanging them with Na+ ions. All of which bond to Cl- ions.

During the regeneration process, a heavy brine solution (loaded with Na++ ions) is forced through the exchanger, displacing the calcium and magnesium ions, washing them down the drain. Sodium ions are replaced in the medium.

This is what a "water softener" does--simply an ion exchange unit. There are deionizers that serve to strip out ions with no replacement, but these are typically not used in home systems and are not conditioners, but purifiers. They are expensive, and the process for regeneration involves strong acids such as HCl.

Reverse osmosis systems are the next step up, forcing water against a semi-permeable membrane--stripping out most contaminants. After this comes distillation--lots of fun to do in the household!

**Accumulator** · 04-05-2005, 04:32 PM

FWIW, Scottlee`s explanation was how I originally understood it and lucid969`s explanation is how it was most recently explained to me.

Much of the correctly expressed info is basically transparent to the end user. If you taste salty water, yeah, *generally* your conditioner/softener needs servicing. But some people, who are *extremely* sensitive to "salt", can always taste it in "softened" water. And some people`s (health-related) sensitivity to sodium is the reason they market the Potassium Chloride softener-salt substitute.

Most softeners are run at night so you don`t use/fill your water heater with "hard" water. Every conditioner I`ve ever had was bypassed automatically when regenerating.

Not to get OT, but RO water is great for drinking, though the process wastes an awful lot of water.

**scottlee** · 04-05-2005, 04:41 PM

thanks for clearing that up for me :xyxthumbs

wouldnt trade mine for anything love it

**lucid696** · 04-05-2005, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by Accumulator

Not to get OT, but RO water is great for drinking, though the process wastes an awful lot of water.

I don`t think that`s off topic at all...I love RO water, and yeah, it does waste a lot of water, but if you set it up right, you can redirect it to the garden, where it will be appreciated!

Gotta be careful with the RO water when drinking, though--RO and distillation take so much out of the water (like chlorine) that it becomes a bacterial breeding ground. Most aftermarket systems come with a pressurized reservoir (2-10 gallons) that is sterilized just before use, and so is safe for drinking, but you still would be wise to make sure things are clean when using the RO.

It does make great coffee, btw.

Perhaps one day, I`ll set up an RO system with a monster reservoir to wash the car with.