Car Wash Industry aims to stop driveway washing

**Peter Crowl** · 01-28-2005, 08:10 PM

Well..the thread has indicated that run-off of metals is more the issue than shampoo residue. Metals...as in brake dust.

I disagree that there`s nothing we can do about it..we can be prepared to dispute the idea of a ban when it comes around to our municipalities.

That`s what I`m harping on here. Preparation.

**Mikeman** · 01-28-2005, 11:26 PM

Hmmm....Carwashing Prohibition......clandestine "speakeasy" detailing shops..... Effective (hazardous) detailing products produced in the hills by criminal bootleggers with their "polish and wax" stills.....swirl free cars a sure sign of illegal car care....DavidB, notorious bootlegger of car care products, imprisoned for tax evasion....

I will defy the law by washing quietly at night. I may get caught; but what will they really do, fine me? It`s worth the risk. Carwashing will take on a new exciting dimension.

Mikeman out.

**Scottwax** · 01-29-2005, 12:03 AM

QEW in your closed garage. Problem solved provided your fenderwells aren`t caked in mud.

**Pondscum** · 01-29-2005, 01:33 PM

The first step in formulating a solution to this issue is understanding the argument the commercial car wash industry lobbyists are making. The soap many people use to wash their cars with contain phosphates. Phosphates work essentially as a fertilizer. Most commercially available fertilizers contain phosphates as a component. When you start washing them down the driveway, they often wind up in streams and cause algae and other crap to grow which clogs up those streams. You can`t compare commercial car washes, shampoo, laundry or dish washing detergent because those things go into waste treatment which deals with this problem. Now is there any validity to their argument? Perhaps, but even if there were, they are certainly barking up the wrong tree. Going back to the subject of phosphates in lawn fertilizer, over fertilizing of people`s lawns is a much larger phosphate problem. Thousands of people in California overfertilize their lawns. Lawn treatment companies will happily charge you huge fees to do exactly that. No one is saying much about that problem and it`s much bigger than driveway car washing.

**Anthony O.** · 01-29-2005, 08:10 PM

Pondscum........well said

**DaGonz** · 01-29-2005, 08:44 PM

Will the carwash industry take reponsibility for damaging people`s cars when their equipment malfunctions?

Will the carwash industry turn away vehicles with loose trim and damage that can cause problems, or will they go after the buck and take their chances ( remeber that your car might be next in the line)

Until they are willing to step up to the plate, I see a huge problem...

**safetyman2010** · 02-03-2005, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by RCBuddha

I agree...i`d say that most car wash owners pollute a heck of a lot more than the average household!

I`d like to see you back up that statement with some facts. Most carwashes now recycle most of their water (at their expense) so they use very little water and if they do happen to be hooked into the city sanitary sewer system they are charged sometimes in the hundreds of thousands of dollars to do so. The car wash industry is VERY heavily regulated and self policed by the ICA. The average car wash at home uses twice as much water as at a professional car wash does and sends all the pollutants directly into the water supply.

**safetyman2010** · 02-03-2005, 07:38 PM

Originally posted by Peter Crowl

Well..the thread has indicated that run-off of metals is more the issue than shampoo residue. Metals...as in brake dust.

I disagree that there`s nothing we can do about it..we can be prepared to dispute the idea of a ban when it comes around to our municipalities.

That`s what I`m harping on here. Preparation.

Why would your motivation to dispute the ban? Because it`s wrong or because it doesn`t suit your needs and wants to do your car at home? Sounds kind of self serving to me. Also, the broad issue is the depositing of detergents, surfactants, oils, rust, engine grime, wax, degreasers and a variety of metals directly into the water supply untreated. Is that not a big deal to you? I am neither a car wash owner or an environmental activist but I do want to do what`s right. Like the old saying goes: you are either part of the solution or part of the problem.

**saltydog** · 02-03-2005, 08:06 PM

This was the last post that I was reading for the night, and I logged off the PC. I had just sat down with my dog and someone was knocking at my door and neither my wife or the dog was going to see who it was, so I guess that i would have to.

I open the door and it was someone soliciting for the clean water action, I kid you not that was weird. Anyway he went on to inform me of the campaign for the clean water act. I was a little disturbed that he was doing this at about 8:00 PM, but anyway he left me some literature to read.

Basically he stated the CWA holds trainings for community activist about protecting the drinking water sources and to protect the environment from toxic chemicals such as mercury and pesticides.

**togwt** · 02-03-2005, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by REX-RACER

EOQ . . . :nixweiss

That`s not on the "secret decoder ring . . . :nixweiss

It`s nothing sinister :wavey end of quote (EOQ)

**Peter Crowl** · 02-03-2005, 08:26 PM

Well until someone ...pops for the $1500 containment system..uses it to collect the water and shampoo run-off from a regular washing..then

A: measures the output to see how much water is used and

2: Has the run off analyzed to determine what it actually contains

It`s all just speculation.

It`s my unsubstantiated claim that my wash every two or three weeks is of minimal impact..and far out weighed by spontaneus run-off from rain, snow, applications of Magnesium Chloride to the streets... and other incidents.

It`s my unsubstantiated claim that as a percentage of the whole hand car washers are such a small minority their impact is minimal.

It`s my unsubstantiated claim that the activity of hand washing will come under intense pressure to be banned because it`s easy to target and business interests have a reason to pay for the lobbying effort to enact that ban.

It`s my substantiated claim that politicans love to enact such measures because they are seen as "doing something" and the group who looses their activity is small enough that they don`t risk future defeat.

You..meaning everybody who favors a potential ban...may choose to believe the opposite. That`s your right. But in the absence of testing done by an impartial group I choose to believe my unsubstantiated claims.

BTW... I use a two bucket method...When I`m done I have about 85% of the original amount in the buckets..and that water is spread on my lawn. I do use my hose with a nozzle to rinse my car before and after the hand washing process. Hence..I dispute the claim of wasting water.

I do not have children. Should be villifying those who do because they use far more water than I ?

Earlier in the thread I said that educational materials that help people learn how to wash their cars with minimal impact would be the right thing to do. People who let the hose run and use dish soap are doing something wrong..but they can be taught rather than banned.

Just some (more) thoughts

Peter..in Denver

**safetyman2010** · 02-03-2005, 08:45 PM

Originally posted by Peter Crowl

it`s all just speculation.[/B]

http://www.riversides.org/riversafe/media.html

There you go. No less than five articles written by different authors. Although I am sure you will believe they are just part of a larger "conspiracy" to keep you from your god given right to wash your car at home. This is getting old........

**jfelbab** · 02-03-2005, 09:15 PM

This is pretty absurd. The Milwaukee Metropolitan Sewage District dumped 4.6 billion of gallons of untreated sewage (septic waste) into Lake Michigan this last May (2004) in one month alone. Lake Michigan is our source of drinking water as well as the source for many cities along it`s shoreline (Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois & Indiana) and the government (local or federal) does nothing. But they are interested in me washing my car in my driveway? Yeah, I`ll support that.

**Peter Crowl** · 02-03-2005, 10:56 PM

ShineShop says..

"There you go. No less than five articles written by different authors. Although I am sure you will believe they are just part of a larger "conspiracy" to keep you from your god given right to wash your car at home. This is getting old........"

Getting old? I, for one, haven`t posted to this thread since January 29th. I believe the last post before yours was January 30th. Looks like you`re the person to re-open it...

Thanks for the links...

I found this bit interesting

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Conclusion

We`re proposing nothing less than overturning the inviolable right of residents to nonpoint-source discharge. The pollution from car washing doesn`t quite rate with, say, combined sewer overflows, but it`s a practice we can control through adequate social marketing while building community-business partnerships. TMOC demonstrates an innovative partnership between industry, community, and municipality that addresses unregulated discharges to our watersheds while building a supportive framework for community-based solutions.

So the next time you see a dirty car in the parking lot, don`t write "Wash me" on it, write "Take Me to the Carwash," and practice a little guerrilla social marketing while you`re at it. Your local river will thank you for it.

Guest author Kevin Mercer is executive director of RiverSides Stewardship Alliance in Toronto, ON.

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You have every right to adhere to whatever standard your community or your personal beliefs demand.

If my community enacted a ban I would adhere to it. I will fight it...but if I loose...I loose.

Meantime I will continue to wash my car as I have been..exercising the best controls that I can.

It would seem...however...that if this is to be the way of the future somebody better get cracking on establishing a commercial car wash that doesn`t damage the finish on properly maintained cars. There are none that I know of in my area.

Peter

**Woob** · 02-03-2005, 11:15 PM

Holy crap. I didn`t realize Toronto was the first to restrict Residential car washing! That sucks tremendously. I guess you could just take it to a nearby non touch place or use QEW.

Personally I think there are many environmental issues to attend to, but car washing isn`t something that threathens or lifestyle as much as direct pollution of certain chemicals.