Is Teflon a scam?

**imported_Bababooey** · 11-25-2004, 12:24 AM

Before I get into it, this is my first post and I must say that I am truly thankful for all the info that the members of Autopia contribute to the forums. I think I have benefitted tremendously from the advice of many enthusiasts and professional detailers. It really gives a beginner such as myself an opprotunity to start on the right foot.

My original question is about teflon. My parents and I were at a MB dealership and the salesman offered them an incentive to sweeten the deal. The salesman explained that the car`s exterior would be treated with teflon and the interior would be scotch guarded. The salesman claimed that the teflon protects your car from all the elements and lasts forever. I must admit, I might be exaggerating a liitle bit but it was something to that effect. He also claimed that this service normally retails at $695. I had a similar experience when I was at an Infiniti dealership. After I bought my car, the tried to sell me the same service for $500 which was supposedly discounted. Based on prior experiences, I am always skeptical of salesman and will never trust them completely. But is there any amount of truth in his claim? What does Teflon do (what are its properties)? What does it protect against (i.e acid rain, bird droppings)? Can it last for a longer period of time than I good sealant like AIO? Wouldn`t I be able to buy a can of scotch guard and spray the carpet and upholstery myself for a few bucks? Shouldn`t I avoid scotch guarding leather which I have a feeling they will proceed to do with the service?

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

**LouisanaJeeper** · 11-25-2004, 12:38 AM

you will be 100x better off finding a local autopian to do a $200 full detail incuding light polish, clay, sealant and interior scotch guard.

i would not even let the stealershp wash the car if i were you, they will probably do more harm than good

>same service for $500 which was supposedly discounted. Based on prior experiences, I am always skeptical of salesman and will never trust them completely. But is there any amount of truth in his claim? What does Teflon do (what are its properties)? What does it protect against (i.e acid rain, bird droppings)? Can it last for a longer period of time than I good sealant like AIO?

exaggerated claims

>Wouldn`t I be able to buy a can of scotch guard and spray the carpet and upholstery myself for a few bucks?

Yes

>Shouldn`t I avoid scotch guarding leather which I have a feeling they will proceed to do with the service?

Yes

use 303 or lexol on leather

**Myles** · 11-25-2004, 06:02 AM

Ever since i read that teflon can only be applied in a high heat baking on process i have steered away from everything that contains it in a bottle,

I beleive it is a powder that when baked at high temps becomes a layer and that layer is teflon,. Prperties, non stick is the usual one.

Doesnt last though, ever noticed how easily the pans with teflon scratch?

**imported_BretFraz** · 11-25-2004, 06:51 AM

:welcome to Autopia

We`ve talked alot about Teflon/PTFE in car waxes over the years. You may want to do a SEARCH on the topic to learn in more detail. IIRC, we`ve had some pretty entertaining conversations about the stuff.

Cliff Notes: As the others have said, Teflon offers no tangible benefits to car wax. Even DuPont, the makers of Teflon, have said so in a well-known memo created years ago. Teflon has its benefits, but a car paint protectant is not one of them. It`s just a marketing scheme.

It is good business for car dealers, though. They can offer a paint protection warranty, mark up the package, and sell it to willing consumers. There are consumers out there who want this stuff so dealers are going to offer it as long as people buy it.

**jfelbab** · 11-25-2004, 07:29 AM

Just a comment on ScotchGuard. I wouldn`t use it.

See this... http://www.chemicalindustryarchives....otchgard/1.asp

**andriver** · 11-25-2004, 07:39 AM

Teflon is for frying pans.

**03COBRA** · 11-25-2004, 08:03 AM

Originally posted by Bababooey

But is there any amount of truth in his claim? What does Teflon do (what are its properties)? What does it protect against (i.e acid rain, bird droppings)? Can it last for a longer period of time than I good sealant like AIO? Wouldn`t I be able to buy a can of scotch guard and spray the carpet and upholstery myself for a few bucks? Shouldn`t I avoid scotch guarding leather which I have a feeling they will proceed to do with the service?

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

I work for a Goodyear Tire retail store. Recently we had we had a meeting on some new fuel, oil cleaner, and oil treatment additives that we can offer the customer with an oil change. The oil treatment that we now offer has Teflon in it. The first thing they told us is that Teflon does not last for ever, so that claim is out the window. Teflon is negatively charged, metal is positively charged, so I think that`s how it bonds to the service. The company that offers these new products to us gave one of my tech`s a bottle of car wax with Teflon in it, he has a Vette. I looked at him and chuckled a little, said don`t even think of putting that on there. Besides, I would think that once you use a cleaner like DACP, AIO, it would strip the Teflon off. As far as it protecting from bird droppings, I doubt that it will do anything for that, I guess the ol` bird s*** can go through any kind of protection, it causing etching which I doubt Teflon can prevent. As far as Scotch guarding the carpets, that I can`t comment on, I would say it`s pointless.

So IMO I would stay away from it. Save the money on the service and maybe put some elbow grease in once and a while and put a coat of wax on it. As much as it pains me to say it, maybe get some Zaino and just apply a new coat every 4 months or so. You can buy a lot of Zaino for $695, probably look better to. So don`t do it, Teflon is not that expensive, if it was so great on paint Meg`s, Mother`s, all of them would use!!!

Also, what color is the car? Maybe we can offer you some product information for a black car in an alternative to Zaino if you don`t want to use Zaino!

Just My opinion!!!

**03COBRA** · 11-25-2004, 08:09 AM

Originally posted by andriver

Teflon is for frying pans.

That`s pretty funny. The guy at the meeting that I went to said even wears off of the pans, you have to re-treat it with Teflon if you want!

**JustinR32** · 11-25-2004, 08:12 AM

Once again,

Selling automotive aftermarket products to people who just bought new cars is what I do for a living. I don`t offer paint sealants, and never will.

The scam isn`t in the product, really; if the pitch was to put NOTHING on your car, but warrant the gloss and such as long as you owned the car, then the idea becomes clearer; the thing being sold isn`t the sealant, it`s the warranty.

It falls apart when you understand that that no one ever comes back and makes a claim. No one. Ever. As soon as the customer gets in that new car and turns the key, he forgets about the paint salant and the $695. Or, he trades the car in long before there is ever a problem. Point being, it uses the customers` excitement at time of purchase to offer a product that doesn`t maintain its high priority in the customers` minds after the purchase (The desire to keep the car looking new "forever").

Is it a scam? Is it unethical? Nope. If there was ever a claim, it would get honored. All the certificates get registered, all the moneys get paid to the underwriters. BUT IT IS A WICKEDLY BAD DEAL FOR THE CUSTOMER. As such, we don`t offer it because it doesn`t fit with our "fair deal" philosophy. Now, if it was offered as a "It`s on the car and you HAVE TO TAKE IT", that`s a scam, and it`s illegal as well. Otherwise, make it a polite "No, but thank you for offering it, that was an interesting presentation but it`s really not the right product for me" situation.

Tom

**03COBRA** · 11-25-2004, 08:24 AM

Originally posted by Mosca

Once again,

Selling automotive aftermarket products to people who just bought new cars is what I do for a living. I don`t offer paint sealants, and never will.

The scam isn`t in the product, really; if the pitch was to put NOTHING on your car, but warrant the gloss and such as long as you owned the car, then the idea becomes clearer; the thing being sold isn`t the sealant, it`s the warranty.

It falls apart when you understand that that no one ever comes back and makes a claim. No one. Ever. As soon as the customer gets in that new car and turns the key, he forgets about the paint salant and the $695. Or, he trades the car in long before there is ever a problem. Point being, it uses the customers` excitement at time of purchase to offer a product that doesn`t maintain its high priority in the customers` minds after the purchase (The desire to keep the car looking new "forever").

Is it a scam? Is it unethical? Nope. If there was ever a claim, it would get honored. All the certificates get registered, all the moneys get paid to the underwriters. BUT IT IS A WICKEDLY BAD DEAL FOR THE CUSTOMER. As such, we don`t offer it because it doesn`t fit with our "fair deal" philosophy. Now, if it was offered as a "It`s on the car and you HAVE TO TAKE IT", that`s a scam, and it`s illegal as well. Otherwise, make it a polite "No, but thank you for offering it, that was an interesting presentation but it`s really not the right product for me" situation.

Tom

Very well said! :xyxthumbs

**Pondscum** · 11-25-2004, 09:04 AM

Teflon coating for vehicles is a scam, period.

**imported_Mr Shine** · 11-25-2004, 10:56 AM

To echo an earlier post, Teflon will not adhere to a surface, unless it is heated to about 1,200 degrees. Most products that say they contain "Teflon", actually contain polymers or resins.

These tend to be more durable than wax based products, and in most cases will remain crystal clear, no matter how many coats are applied.

**ALAN81** · 11-26-2004, 06:35 AM

Mosca ...thank you for your honesty.You said it right AFTER shelling out big money for a new car the dealership tries to get you for another $695.Just a bad deal for the customer because if I am right how much is the Teflon coating and scothguard cost?a few bucks and the cost of application and they charge you $695.This is just greety dealerships trying to get every last penny and before that they go after you for extended this and that.

**JustinR32** · 11-26-2004, 07:14 AM

Alan,

Most aftermarket products fit into at least SOME peoples` needs somehow. Therefore, what looks like a bad deal to one person is a godsend to another, and we shouldn`t try to impose our needs onto others; someone who is trading every 3 years, or someone who can afford to pay for any repairs doesn`t need an extended service contract, but a huge number of people who are living paycheck to paycheck need some way to control the budget, and an unexpected repair can be a real hardship.

The problem with the paint sealant protection packages is that they fit almost no ones` needs.

Keep in mind that I`m not saying there`s anything wrong with the dealer trying to make more money. They are free to try and get as much money as they can, just like the customers are free to ask for as much off as they can get. All I`m doing is advising my Autopia friends to say "no" to this one.

Tom

**SupremeChief** · 11-26-2004, 11:08 AM

once a year car polish/wax..never wax your car again..!!

well its america..and if you can think of it..you can sell it...because people will buy it

when you consider that most car buyers will never wax their own car and dont even know how to wax it...this "product" may sound like a good deal..

several neighbors ask me..why do i wax my car so often..or can i detail their car..yeah they have new cars and taking them to the car wash is about all they are going to do to keep them clean..remember most people dont even look at the wheels or know about them...they are part of the tire, right?...so when space age products come along, im not surprised..its like putting lemons in dishwashing soap or apples in your shampoo..

wait till they sell a "stealth" package...never get a speeding ticket again..Never ??...thats right Bob!! Never!!

wolf