total swirl removal with the rotary alone ??

[chip douglas]

I`d really like to know whether the rotary alone can remove *all* of them swirls ? I`ve asked numerous people to get as good and accurate an idea as possible, and now I`m asking it here, hoping Mike will chime in. I`ve been told by guys with 14 years of experience with the rotary that it`s impossible to remove *all* swirls using only the rotary. Howver, another chimed in and said that he has ten years experience using the rotary, and says he can produce swirl free finish, or near swirl free. If that is so, I really wonder what technique they use





Anyone with experience using the rotary, please chime in, I`d really appreciate that.



Best..

[Accumulator]

Chip Douglas- Yeah, used *properly* the rotary can remove all marring all by itself. If it`s *not* used properly, you can get holograms or (the classic-definition version of) swirlmarks. When that happens, a DA/Cyclo/PC is generally used to remove the rotary-induced marring. But it`s certainly NOT like that *always* happens when you use a rotary.



You just work the products until they`re broken down, switching to milder pad/product combinations as you go until the finish is perfect, much like with a PC or by hand. It takes practice and care, but it`s certainly not impossible (unless there`s an issue with thinning the paint too much). In fact, I`m sorta and about someone saying it can`t be done.

[chip douglas]

Accumulator,



first thanks to chime in, I`m glad you did, but could you outline what it is you do bufing a car that will prevent swirls--I`m still talking about the rotary . Is there a pattern that is likely to influence the outcome ? Figure 8, cross hatch, anything like that, or perhaps something else, I may not have thought about here.



Feel free to PV me should so you desired...I don`t mind at all. I`ll actually log in to the chatroom, maybe you can join, that`d be cool really.

[Bill D]

Chip, definitely count me in on that too! Best to learn this first before picking up the rotary and going to town in my case :up

[imported_Intel486]

You can get completely swirl free finishs with a rotary. It takes the right pad, product, and technique though.



If you are looking for a swirl free finish on your own personal vehicle, then you won`t need a rotary buffer. It`s really there for serious paint defect correction or if you need to get the job done quickly. I`d go for an orbital if it`s just for your own vehicle. The orbitals are practically fool proof compared to the rotary. Easy to get a swirl free finish.



The rotary buffer also takes a good but of work to use. I could use my orbital all day but after doing an entire job with the rotary I`m usually pretty tired. I`ve also had it jump off the side of a boat before and hit me in the nose... thought I broke my nose that day. One new pad ripped up on a screw and getting hit in the face w/ my buffer... that was the last boat I`ve ever done.

[Corey Bit Spank]

Mike (tpgsr) did both the Black jetta and Black GTP with him using the rotary + dacp and be following behind with the PC and wolfgang pre cleaner. It worked really nicely.



I need to learn how to use it.

[Accumulator]

Chip Douglas- I never seem to have time *at the right time* to join in live chats; I have to get my posting done when I can spare the time.



I`m still getting reacquainted with the rotary. I used one *way* back in the day (the dreaded "kid with a rotary doing new cars at the dealership", but I did `em pretty well- only one other guy at the shop was allowed to use it and he was the old guy who showed me how). It`s coming back pretty well, using the Cyclo all the time is good carry-over training.



Yeah, I use figure-8 motions, for me, it`s easier to keep the machine in motion without having "pauses" at the end of the strokes that way. But sometimes that just won`t work due to tight spots, panel contours, etc. If you`re using sensible products and common sense, it`s not *really* all that big of a problem. Tape over "fragile areas" when doing the aggressive stuff.



I played around on the Volvo- some sharp contours where I knew the paint was too thin to survive any real rotary polishing (I`d already been cutting through with just the PC and mild polishes). The rotary wasn`t all that bad; it cut through faster (well, duh..) but it wasn`t like some out-of-control monster out of the movie Maximum Overdrive.



I still follow up my rotary work with the PC/Cyclo. As Intel said, it *is* more work and there are serious consequences if fatigue/complacency make for a moment`s inattention. For me, it`s easier to only use the rotary for the aggressive work/major correction and to then switch to a more familiar/easier machine for the stuff it can handle. IMO trying to do *everything*, including final polishing, with a rotary is best left for later, when you`re *so* experienced that it`s likely to go well. Remember that every additional step (as in "oh [expletive], I got holograms, now I gotta polish even *more* with a PC or something") removes more clear.



When I did the S8, it *seemed* to be fine after my rotary work. No obvious holograms (nothing three of us could see, even in bright sunlight), certainly no swirlmarks. But I still used the Cyclo for the last two polishing steps. Just the absence of sling was enough of a reason!



Intel- I`ve found that with some paints (like Audi clear), you (well, at least *I* ) absolutely *must* use a rotary to get a marring free finish. On an `02 A6, using a PC with wool pads and a Cyclo with cutting pads, I went through *an entire quart bottle of PI-II RC* (over many hours) and it didn`t fully remove anything except the lightest swirls. This was on a car that didn`t look bad at all, just typical marring. As Bill D. found out the hard way, some paint just won`t level at all without pretty drastic measures. That`s when I gave in and bought the rotary. Unfortunately, it really is mandatory for the paints I`m working these days.

[Bill D]

Yep, my 15 year old white Caddy, prbably will only respond to a rotary to really improve defects, even with a PC with wool pad, its just too darn hard :mad; Im looking forward to trying out the rotary.

[imported_Intel486]

Originally posted by Accumulator

Intel- I`ve found that with some paints (like Audi clear), you (well, at least *I* ) absolutely *must* use a rotary to get a marring free finish. On an `02 A6, using a PC with wool pads and a Cyclo with cutting pads, I went through *an entire quart bottle of PI-II RC* (over many hours) and it didn`t fully remove anything except the lightest swirls. This was on a car that didn`t look bad at all, just typical marring. As Bill D. found out the hard way, some paint just won`t level at all without pretty drastic measures. That`s when I gave in and bought the rotary. Unfortunately, it really is mandatory for the paints I`m working these days.

yep, some paints are harder than others and more difficult to remove maring from. I had a black R/T the other day that was its first time ever being polished. I went over a spot on the bedcover twice with the rotary, a cutting pad, and a compound and there were still a lot of marks in the paint. Owner said it was the best it had ever looked though so I was happy.

[Accumulator]

Intel486- Good move, *not* overdoing it on the Dodge :xyxthumbs