Newbie that needs some guidance

**BCS996TT** · 08-26-2003, 01:10 PM

I joined the site a few months ago...but am now starting to get back into it. I now realize why I left the boards for a while...to actually get some work done. There is such a wealth of knowledge on this board that I could just sit here for hours on end reading about different products, techniques, etc. Excellent board!!!

Ok, now to my questions, etc. Well, I just purchased my PC along with a number of white, yellow and black pads.

I`ve been browsing and searching for washing soap, polishes, waxes, etc. and am just overwhelmed by what`s out there. There really doesnt seem to be a consensus on any particular brand.

I must admit that I have neglected giving my car a good polish and wax, but now that Iam going to invest the time and energy, I want to be sure that I am doing it correctly with the best products.

My car is black...if that helps narrow down certain recommendations.

I`ll start by describing how I wash the car and plan to polish and wax and hopefully someone can chime in and tell me if what I am doing is right, wrong, ridiculous.

Im currently using a mystery wash (picked it up from a reputable detailer...his own blend), so im somewhat confident that it`s a safe and good soap. Im also using a natural sea sponge to wash the car (using the standard back and forth technique) with no applied pressure. The sponge holds a lot of water, so I assume it`s safe for the paint. I was told by the detailer that it`s the best thing to use....as well as natural sheepskin mitts. To dry the car, I use a California Wiper Blade followed up with the absorber.

That`s pretty much it! Simple but does part of the job.

Now that i`ve done that, I want to use the PC to remove some swirlmarks and give it a really nice shine.

I was thinking about using Meguiar`s DACP with the yellow sponge and following up with Meguiar`s Swirl Remover #9 and a good wax.

Now can anyone recommend anything that would compliment my product selection. Some say Meguiar`s #26 glaze would work well after the polish. What about wax for black paint? I would rather use a carnauba wax (less work) and thinking about going with s100.

Any advice/ recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

TIA!!!!

**imported_Greg** · 08-26-2003, 01:26 PM

Welcome. I would say you are off to a pretty good start. Wash the car, then clay, then DACP w/ yellow pad would be a good choice. Make sure you work the DACP until it is a powder dust or it is a pain to remove. Then #9 would be good with the white pad. I would recommend a sealant, Poorboy`s EX would be great on your black 996, I assume, damn what a sweet car, then topped off with S100.

Oh yeah, post some pictures of that beautiful beast when you are done!

**BCS996TT** · 08-26-2003, 01:43 PM

Greg,

Thanks for the info! Yes, it is an 02 996TT. In regards to Poorboy`s EX, is it ok to apply it immediately after applying the #9? Or, do I have to give the car a wash again?

Finally, where is the best place to acquire all these products?

Thanks!

**mhuf** · 08-26-2003, 03:20 PM

Porsches do not like Mequairs or any synthetic cleaning or waxing product. I am a retired Porsche detailer and a Porsche Concours best of show winner. Porsches are all I do, or did.. I also am a Porsche owner and PCA meber.

www.carcareonline.com has good selection and prices and some good info. I think he is a Jersey guy also.

I use and highly recommend Griots Garage Products for your 996TT www.griotsgarage.com

**2wheelsx2** · 08-26-2003, 03:26 PM

Actually, if you search for Carguy`s posts, he uses Meguiar`s Gold Class on his black Porsche and gets a really nice deep shine.

I think you were confused on the Meguiar`s numbers. #26 is the hi-tech yellow wax, and #7 is the show car glaze. I would try that combo and see if you like it.

**imported_garyo** · 08-26-2003, 03:37 PM

Chuckrh1,

I am curious on why you say PorscheÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s do not like synthetic products? I am not questioning your knowledge, but merely want to know what your experience is. What problems did you have with synthetics on Porsches?

I know many Porsche owners that use synthetics. Zaino is very popular on the 993 board of Rennlist with some great looking results. I personally used zaino with no problems on my Boxster before getting by 993. I currently have zaino on the 993 and it has performed very well. I am going to switch products, but it really is because I want to experiment and try some new things.

**mhuf** · 08-26-2003, 04:24 PM

As a Porsche only detailer I saw lots of older Porsches that had a milky looking haze. This was more common on dark colors. it was removable with lots of work but since it was on some cars and not others of that year and color I got to wondering why it was there. I had a customer with a red 85 928 that had the haze and on another 85 red 928 about the same milage and from the same area with no haze. I asked what wax each had used through the years and Mequiars was mentioned, other waxes were also mentioned, nothing good, Turtle Wax and some other Wal-Mart wax. I did some research www.carcareonline.com and other places, talked to other Porsche owners and other Concours winners. If you talk to enough Porsche owners, especially PCA members you`ll start to see a pattern. With the newer Porsches

it takes a while for anything to show up. Lets face it... with your newer car,you could wax it with just about anything and it would look fantastic.... for a short period of time. Did you happen to notice your Boxster scratched easily ? Porsche started using a latex based paint with a polyurethane clearcoat. This was a tough finnish to get really nice and shinny, it was almost like the finnish was not hard enough. What I have seen with the Zaino products is people get complacent with the ease of use and have not fairly compared it to top of the line carnuba waxes, which are much more difficult to use and get right. I had 4 Porsches in the Austin Tx. PCA Concours two years ago, they all placed. There were two Zaino`d Porsches there.... did not place.

They did look great, especially a Black 993 Cab, however, the depth of shine and the smoothness as you rub yuour hand over the car was just not as good as a really good carnuba finnish.

There are lots of good carnuba waxes out there and the things to look for are how long does it last and easy is it to work with and how smooth does it feel and how deep does the finnish look. I also am a rennlist member and post on the 911 board, I also post on pelicanparts. Both these sites have a search function, look for recommendations there. Sorry, I get long winded on this subject

I recommend talking to other Porsche owners and actually feeling the cars you think look good, I`d ask first before feeling though, cars are kinda like wifes or girlfriends.... keep your hands off !

I hope this answers some of your questions. I have to admit that I never did get a chance to detail a Speed Yellow Porsche and that black was my least favorite to detail, but when done right looked the best. Good Luck !

**BCS996TT** · 08-26-2003, 04:59 PM

Chuck,

Thanks for your input. I do frequent rennlist, funcars and 6speedonline forums. I`ve talked to a number of owners who do use griots and have had good success...however, I was referred to this board to seek more advice. I knew griots was well respected, but I thought it was more marketing than anything else. Afterall, they now sell BBQ sauce and sandals!!!!

I will check out carcareonline and see what other information I can find before I make my decision. If all else fails, i`ll probably go with griots as well.

**imported_Greg** · 08-26-2003, 05:27 PM

I have detailed enough Porsches and enough cars for that matter and have never experienced any type of hazing while using synthetics. Proper prep work usually takes care of it. Granted I was not prepping these cars for the Concours d`Elegance, but looked strikingly good in their own sense and after coming back to do them again, never was there a haze. It does suprise me a bit in chuckrh1`s post that he only mentions waxes as being the source of the problem for the haze and since when did they judge Concours on depth of shine. I`ve always been a firm believer in 99% percent of the shine comes from paint prep, not wax or sealant. Also when you say that Meguiars is not good for Porsche paint- it seemed to me that you were inferring all Meguiars products including the BSP line. To me thats like saying- you are allergic to apples, therefore you are allergic to all fruit.

Now you said people get complacent with the easy of use with Zaino. You are quite possibly the first person to ever refer to Zaino as easy to use due to the time, curing, and other factors. However, a top of the line carnauba (which you spelled carnuba and after detailing for Concours competitions, I would have thought you might have spelled it correctly) is about as easy to use as any product. Granted, I have never tried Zymol Vintage due to the price, but what are you really going to find that is easier to use than Pinnacle Souveran? Griots Best of Show or Carnauba wax are of a substantially lesser grade than Souveran or even S100 in my book.

As for the original question, I think a sealant such as Poorboy`s EX, www.poorboysworld.com is a great choice on black, or even Klasse AIO and SG, but SG can be fickle. Luster can post some pictures of his black car with Zaino and they look incredible. Do a search for AMP99 and he usually posts pictures of his black 740 as often as he can to show what 3 layers of EX plus a Pinnacle Souveran topper can accomplish. As for other websites to order from, we are sponsored by companies below who all have great products including Autogeek, Eizett, Autopia car care and Ranney (Pakshak) has the best microfiber towels and gives an Autopian discount- just PM him for prices. Take care.

**Deanski** · 08-26-2003, 07:57 PM

Well you`re off on the right start. Wash, clay and polish.

Polishing is where the results are! Poor polishing, and if using a sealant such as Zaino, Klasse, UPP etc, the lack of removing ALL oils/silicones after polishing gives it a "plastic" or sometime haze look. Remember, all a sealant does is cover what you just did. Same for wax, however, oils help wax flow on the finish and aid to the shine/depth. Get someone with black hair and put some type of oils/grease on it and it looks shiny and good. Same goes for a finish with wax. Oils from waxes just sit on the finish.

Sealants are opposite, you HAVE to remove all oils/silicone prior to applying. ALso, the finish work you did polishing has EVERYTHING to do with sealants. You MUST get the finish as close to a mirror as possible, high gloss on it`s own is the secret.

I`ve seen many vehicles at shows here in Connecticut, specifically Greenwich which has a very fine car show for high-end collectors.

A good amount of the owners use Zaino, but they are knowledgeable on how to use a sealant and or a wax. Prep and polish is the key!

IMO, I`d try all waxes first as they are easy to remove as opposed to a sealant if you are not happy with the results. All the waxes we use here, S100, Moose, Souveran, etc are all very good waxes. I`m not sure on PB-EX as it is a mix of wax and synthetic resin. I`d just stay 100% carnuba for now.

If you`re ready to try Zaino, remember to remove all waxes and oils etc prior or your results will not be as spectacular.

Look at my SC430 in my sig. That`s Zaino done the right way. Now, some ALSO top Zaino with a wax for a bit more depth, but that`s up to you.

As for polishes, all depends on finish level. After DACP, you can go with 3M PIII-MG and step to a finer glaze, Menzerna-FP (Glue-Zerna IMO) or Megs hand glaze. I used just the black pad as I wanted the Menzerna to burnish the finish, not the pad.

Granted, it takes time and practice on products, pads and technique. Practice on other cars if you can first to get the feel of both the PC and how each polish reacts and breaks down as well as downward pressure needed.

Let us know how you do.

Regards,

Deanski

**SP 325i** · 08-27-2003, 05:01 AM

Chuckrh1,

Lots of car companies use a latex based basecoat with a polyurethane clearcoat. This is the way car paint technology has been moving for the last 10 years (at least) - esp. in Europe. I do not know who supplies the paint to Porsche at the moment (maybe someone could look -it is usually marked near the paint code) but I am pretty certain that it will be a very similar formulation to other companies that they supply.

By the way I speak as a development chemist who was in charge of primer/surfacers for Japanese transplant customers for 4 years.

Steve

**BCS996TT** · 08-27-2003, 08:53 AM

Originally posted by Deanski

If you`re ready to try Zaino, remember to remove all waxes and oils etc prior or your results will not be as spectacular.

I doubt I`ll go straight to zaino, but I assume that I would have to polish first and then wash the car again to remove all polishing oils, etc.? I`ve heard many say "Dawn wash". Forgive my ignorance but is that Dawn dishwashing soap????

Originally posted by Deanski

As for polishes, all depends on finish level. After DACP, you can go with 3M PIII-MG and step to a finer glaze, Menzerna-FP (Glue-Zerna IMO) or Megs hand glaze. I used just the black pad as I wanted the Menzerna to burnish the finish, not the pad.

Is it safe to assume that after wash and clay I can go straight to DACP (orange pad), then to 3M PIII-MG (white pad), and then Meg Hand glaze (black pad) and finally S100 (black pad)?

**russ968** · 08-27-2003, 11:32 AM

BCS996TT...Welcome back...sorta:up

Yeah...all the information here can give you a headache.

I often use Meguiar`s products and Klasse products (synthetic) and have great results and win the occasional concours.

Here`s my process for my Porsche.

Wash - Dawn (when necessary) or Griot`s Car Wash

Clay - Griot`s Clay and Meg`s FI (when necessary)

Wash - Dawn - (when necessary) or Griot`s Car Wash

Clean/Polish - 3M PI-IIIMG w/Orange Pad (Meg`s FI for help in removal)

Clean/Polish - Klasse AIO (2) by hand (Meg`s FI for help in removal)

Seal - Klasse SG (5) (Meg`s FI for help in removal)

Wax - PS (3)

That`s the dishwashing soap to your question. I would only recommend using it a couple times a year to strip the wax and fillers off your car. I have not used a sea sponge so it`s hard for me to comment. I use a Boar`s Hair brush for the most part and good sheepskin mitts. I would definitely add a clay step to your outline. If you don`t use the 2 bucket method for washing I know it has helped me scratch my car less. Same goes for the "Perfect Drying Technique" here:

http://www.autopia.org/forums/showth...&threadid=5120[/URL]

Deanski`s suggestions were good in stepping down from DACP with 3M PI-IIIMG or Menzerna FP. In fact these are the three polishes I use between the Porsche and my wifeÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s black 5 series BMW, depending on what the job is and I can recommend all three although the Menzerna FP is a little tough getting off. Orange pads are great and I use them quite almost exclusively. A Yellow cutting pad will help DACP or any other mild cutting product get to your swirls or microabraisions more effectively than an orange pad but I use this combination as a last resort. I`ve also used a black pad to apply wax but I`ve gone back to applying finish coats by hand. Since your car is newer my only suggestion here is try the 3M PI-IIIMG (05937 is the 32oz part #) first with the orange pad and see if that gets your finish where you want it. Good MF towels are a huge help, BTW.

Ok, so let me make a quick recommendation assuming you are not going the polymer/acrylic route. Instead of washing again, as some do to remove fillers or surface contaminates from the clean/polish step try Klasse AIO. It is a chemical cleaner that works the gloss of your finish. I have gotten my best results from AIO and it will set-up your finish for whatever next step you choose. Of course it would now be very easy for you to put on a few coats of SG and then a coat or two of S100 or Pinnacle but you could go right to the wax if you don`t have the time or interest in SG. Jimwh Klasse instructions in the hall of fame are a must read here:

http://www.autopia.org/forums/showth...threadid=12590

Where to get stuff:

1. 3m-PI-IIIMG - http://www.handsontools.com/store/sh...roduct_id=3825

2. Microfiber Towels - www.pakshak.com (Great MFs!)

3. Car wash, interior cleaner, glass cleaner, clay, and rubber cleaner and a few other items - Griot`s Garage (link is in thread below)

4. Menzerna FP - right here at Autopia (click shop above)

5. Klasse, DACP, PC Pads, Meguiar`s Final Inspection (get a gallon of this great product) and the rest...

http://www.properautocare.com/

http://www.carcareonline.com/

http://www.premiumautocare.com/

http://www.autogeek.net/

http://www.topoftheline.com/

There are, of course, lots of great products and folks with experience with them here. I just haven`t gotten around to trying them all

but the products I listed here are the ones I use and am comfortable recommending.

My recent Concours prep write-up is here, fyi:

Good luck and take some pictures! :xyxthumbs

Russ

**Deanski** · 08-27-2003, 06:16 PM

Yes, try the 3M PIII-MG FIRST! If this does not remove enough of the swirls, or is taking way too long, then you may try the DACP, then step down with the 3M PIII-MG again. Any finish glaze, such as Megs #7 (somewhat oily) or other finer glaze and white pad will really get it glossy. I`d also try the Klasse, as it has good results as well.

Waxes are subjective. I like Souveran, S100 and sometimes Zymol Japon or Carbon, but those do not last as long as S100. Souveran looks very good on dark finishes!

Dawn is just alkaline, that`s why it works removing oils/waxes, but if you want, try the distilled water/alcohol spray bottle to remove fillers or some of the oils. But then again, if you`re going to wax as a protectant, don`t remove all the oils, just apply the wax. Megs #26 also has good results too.

Take your time, work a panel at a time to gauge results and work from that. Once you get the finish as perfect as possible, it`s just maintenance from that point going forward. Careful attention to washing back/forth and drying with proper drying tools will keep you from pulling your hair out.

I wash quite a bit, as QD is OK for very light dust. Dirt on the other hand needs to be washed off, or you run the risk of it being captured in a towel and dragged all over!

Try waxes at first. It easy, looks good and you can always add to the level of gloss with each waxing.

Zaino is great but again just getting the first layers right take time and knowledge. That`s why too many people get that Hazed look or "plastic" look, they do not spend enough time finishing.

If you are going to wax, I use 3M PIII-FG, as it has carnuba in it. If you are going to Klasse, skip the FG and use a differrent finish glaze.

Menzerna-FP is a fantastic glaze/finish polish, but as I call it Glue-Zerna, it can be a PITA to remove as well. Sometimes by trying to remove it, you can marr the finish by rubbing too hard, that`s when the alcohol/water spray comes in handy.

Again, take your time, don`t expect things to jump off. It may take several attempts with a lower grade polish, but you`ll get it done.

Post the pics when done!

Regards,

Deanski

**2wheelsx2** · 08-27-2003, 06:22 PM

Lots of good sources above, but no one seems to have mentioned Autopia. All you need in one place. And it helps to keep this board going too.

Autopia store