Now it`s orange peel, etc

**tguil** · 08-10-2003, 04:59 PM

Another question for my body shop experts, especially Guitarman.

My previous post, "dent repair/paint problems", focused on a repair and overspray. The body shop corrected both of those problems. Now I have a problem with rippling and some orange peel located on the door below the window and above the molding. The major part of the door. No problem with color match. It is just clearcoat. The body shop cleared this area twice. The rippling/orange peel was present after their first attempt at making the repair time. What caused the rippling? Improper sanding techniques? Paint application on a hot humid day?

Can this be fixed and how? I`m pretty sure it will require wet sanding. Right, Guitarman? Can the defect be taken care of right away or should the PPG urethane be allowed to cure for a while especially because it has been cleared twice. It should not be absolutely smooth because the rear door has a sight amount of orange peel. Very slight.

I know this is a much more visible problem because the truck is black. IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve not had problems like this with this shop before and the same painter has painted other two other black trucks for me.

Funniest thing. I had a black Chevy that I didn`t give a rip about. It never had to have body work.

Tom

**jr weeks** · 08-10-2003, 06:13 PM

Tom, there are many causes for orange peel, from improper spray tip on the gun, and distance the gun is held, to wrong air pressure to poor technique and too thin a coat, where there is not enough paint to "flow out".

I`m a bit surprised they didn`t match the O/P to the oem paint, it should be a no-brainer for them because they have to do it pretty much every time. They should allow a week or so before they wetsand it IMO.

Regardless, they will need to block/wet sand the clear to knock down the O/P. They can do it with wetsandpaper or with 3M dry discs for a D/A sander. I myself generally use 1500 and 2000 grit when I do this, then compound via a rotary with 3M Perfect-It III Rubbing Compound with a cutting pad, and finish with 3M Machine Glaze with a polishing pad, and on dark and black vehicles I go 1 step further and use 3M Swirl Remover with a fine finishing pad on low speed. They will have their own preferences as to compounds, but the result should be the same.

I painted the car below, my `89 T-Bird SC myself, and blocked it to where there is NO orange peel on it. They will of course stop when they match your oem O/P, as you desire. Keep after them till it`s satisfactory for you. Best of luck.

**tguil** · 08-10-2003, 06:42 PM

Guitarman,

Thanks for the information. That is pretty much what I thought should be done. I had one on my black Harleys repainted. It has abslolutely no orange peel. Nada! Lots of clearcoat were put on that baby followed by lots of wet sanding. Of course there isn`t as much to a bike as there is to a big Dodge Ram. :-)

Darned nice T-bird. What products do you use to keep it that way?

Tom

**B3Golde** · 08-10-2003, 06:44 PM

If I`m understanding your thread correctly the orange peel and the rippling are two different things. Are these little lines that are raised above the other points instead of "blotches" raised as in orange peel? Orange peel is just a matter of wetsanding but the lines are caused by not going to a fine enough grit when removing the original paint. My car was resprayed before I got it and it had the lines going all throughout the paint, it had to be block sanded by hand as the machine sanders just follow in these marks.

Please take pics so that I know we`re on the same page.

**jr weeks** · 08-10-2003, 07:24 PM

Tom, thanks. I use Zaino on the car.

I hope it`s just orange peel and not a feathering problem as B3Golde suggested may be the prob. If it is a feathering issue under the clear, then not much will help aside from blocking it, reblending base color , and reclearing.

Here`s to praying it`s just a clearcoat O/P issue.

**tguil** · 08-10-2003, 07:29 PM

Sorry no digital camera. Too many other toys. The rippling actually is more like a few soft waves in the surface. There was absolutley no body work done in the area. Just prepping to paint.

Tom

**B3Golde** · 08-10-2003, 08:25 PM

Yeah, it doesn`t sound like it`s the "line" thing that I was talking about. Wetsanding and buffing should take care of it all

**SP 325i** · 08-12-2003, 03:12 AM

Did they apply primer to the area that has the rippling ? I have seen (what I imagine to be the problem) when a "filler" primer has been used and then not flatted correctly.

By the way using PPG Deltron (I assume it was deltron as you reffered to it as urethane) system you can get good results applying wet on wet (clear onto colour). This will be low baked and pretty much ready a couple of hours after application.

Orange peel is sometimes provoked at OEM stage to help hide defects.

Steve

**SickOfItAll** · 08-12-2003, 03:45 AM

Originally posted by Guitarman

Off-topic, I realize, but good god - that is one of the best finishes I`ve ever seen, I bow down to you, sir

**jr weeks** · 08-12-2003, 10:25 AM

Thanks SickOfItAll.

**tguil** · 08-12-2003, 03:44 PM

After carefully looking over the door with the shop manager, we have agreed that wet sanding might make the reclearing more noticeable. It`s really not that different than several other panels. I`m ready to just pretty much let it go, BUT.....

Can the orange peel be leveled SLIGHTLY using a pc and compound such as 3M Perfect-It II or III followed by Meguair`s DACP? From what I understand, Perfect-It is about the same as 2000 sandpaper. I`ve seen at least one post saying that this will work? Should a wool pad or a foam pad be used be used for the Perfect-It? I would use a yellow pad for the DACP.

I have a very "good eye" and am very careful and patient when using abrasive compounds.

Thanks, guys. I appreciate your comments

Tom

**jr weeks** · 08-12-2003, 04:44 PM

Tom, I suppose the rub is in the "slightly" part of the equation and whether or not that will suffice for you, but, yes, compounding with those products will register a slight change if worked sufficiently. It may take repeated attempts with a P/C though to see a difference in the O/P. A rotary would be the better choice ( outside of blocking it by wetsanding), but if you don`t have one no sense in buying one for a single event either.

Personally, i`m not really understanding why wetsanding would magnify your problem, because if you`re going to approximate 2000 grit via a compound, why not just block it with 2000 wet paper then compound and polish? The rigidity of the block under the paper is what will effect and knock down the high points of the orange peel, much better than a foam pad on a PC, which will "follow" the paint surface to a certain extent since the buffing pad has a lot of "give" to it.

I suppose if I saw it, yours and the shop manager`s decision might make more sense, but it`s kind of vague at this point.

Anyhoo, try your idea and let us know what happens. Good luck.