can I polish this newly-painted car?

**chris0626** · 08-09-2003, 03:31 PM

Some of you know that I`ve had the `75 red Jag in the paint shop for the past couple of weeks. She`s now fire-engine red. I love the color ... BUT!!! the paint job sucketh.

I went for a cheap paint job, in hopes of selling this Jag in the next few months. And cheap is what I got. (The professional Jag restoration shops wanted $8,000-20,000 for a repaint; I paid $1,000 for this one, including some bodywork.) Paid for 1 coat base, 1 coat clear. Picked up the car this morning, and it`s pretty horrible. The paint looks "gritty," if that makes any sense; it`s almost as if there is fine sand in the paint. And I can see some pretty severe runs. Other places, there are such "globs" that it looks like they touched-up with sloppy brushes. A few small areas (under 1 sq ft) just have no shine at all. Also, to my surprise, the finish is MAJOR SWIRL-CITY!! Somebody clearly fell asleep on the rotary!

I have no interest in going back to the paint shop. I asked for a cheap paint job, and I got a cheap paint job. Now it`s up to me to do any fix-up that I can.

Now ... let me be the first to say: "Lynn, do a search!" But I`m in a rush and needing predigested advice. So ... at the risk of being consigned to Autopia hell, I`ll just ask my (probably redundant) question.

Which is: I have the PC (thanks yet again, Accumulator!), and the 3 grades of Lake Country pads: finishing, polishing, and cutting. Also have 3M SMR, fine-cut rubbing compound, and heavy-cut rubbing compound, along with ScratchX. I`ve practiced enough with the PC that I`m prepared to tackle this Jag. Two questions:

1. Since I perceive that the major problems are in the base, not in the clear, is there any hope that I can actually fix these problems with a PC? With what I`ve read on Autopia, I have a hunch that I would have to destroy the clearcoat to address the paint problems. What are my options here?

2. I know the Autopia guideline about starting with the least aggressive polish. But I have a hunch that, in this case, I should start at the higher end of the abrasiveness scale. Any tips on pad/product combo to start with?

Hoping this doesn`t sound just TOO darn stupid!

**Scottwax** · 08-09-2003, 04:06 PM

You are probably going to have to wetsand the paint to get it smooth enough to remove the imperfections. www.meguiars.com has a tutorial on the use of their Uni-Grit wetsanding system, but I`d practice a bit on a used fender before attacking your car`s paint.

After that, it will take some major buffing to remove the wetsanding marks, then swirl removal and glazing.

**jonw440** · 08-09-2003, 04:33 PM

You had better be EXTREMELY careful wet sanding with only ONE coat of clear. Actually I wouldn`t wet-sand at all. I would bring it back and tell them "I paid $1,000. Now please give me the rest of the paint job" I don`t see how anybody can do just one coat of color (especially with a color change), then just shoot one coat of clear.:nixweiss . When I painted my Roadrunner, I only put two coats of color and wish I had done more because of some blotches, I also put 3 coats of clear and went through to the color coat when I tried wet-sanding out a run. Like I said go back and get the other $600 of the paint job they owe you!

**Deanski** · 08-09-2003, 04:54 PM

Sounds like they sprayed it in a garage w/o proper booth or dust controls. You seem to have dust in the finish. The only way is to wetsand the finish to level the finish and to remove, or level out the "grit" on the surface prior to rotary compounding and polishing.

They should have wetsanded the finish smooth and compounded it prior to you taking it. I would ask that they correct the defects. After all, you paid to have it done correctly, cheap, but still correctly done. Otherwise I`d ask for some of the money paid out to do this job be returned to you so you can seek out a shop that can resolve the screw-up they did.

Wetsanding is a long process and takes some skill. I soak all paper overnight prior to sanding, then mix up my Megs 00 wash and water for lube. Wash the car prior, wet the area with your lube and sand with the paper and block, flood the area sanded with water to check the "feel" and continue to the next area once the feel is smooth. After sanding, I compound and then polish/glaze the finish. This also shows any area missed by sanding, which you will have to go back and hit.

Bottom line, it`s your car and how much time you can spend correcting mistakes.

Regards,

Deanski

**DaGonz** · 08-09-2003, 07:55 PM

Lynn..I hate to say this...but..

you get what you pay for!

Considering what you can probably sell the Jag for, it would be worth it to invest a few more $$$ and get a proper paint job.

I recently did a detail on a 2002 Caravan that had a cheapo paint job on the right rear quarter panel ...runs everywhere, sand scratches and the underside of the quarter wasn`t even painted!

The owner had backed into a light pole stanchion in a parking lot and looked for a quickie fix... he never filed an accident report or got a proper estimate from a reputable body shop...he had a "friend" do the repair. he thought it came out great, until I pointed out the shoddy paint job to him

**JasonC8301** · 08-09-2003, 08:06 PM

Sounds like a $250 Maaco job sounds better than this $1000 job.

Obviously the paint shop sucks and scammed you because $1000 is still a lot of money. You should expect MORE!

Maaco`s $250 paint job sounds better than this...Sorry Lynn, could of done better. Don`t set you`re expectations so low. I would of raised heck at this supposed body shop.

**chris0626** · 08-09-2003, 09:31 PM

Thanks for all the input so far, Autopians. Yep, I`m feeling like a real dumbo at this point. On the other Jag, we`ve done nothing but Class-A. Somehow, I got lured into trying to do a half-way job on this red one. Gonzo, you`re right with your "get what you pay for" comment. I probably should have held off for a better and more expensive paint job, but just got lured into the "quick-and-dirty" solution for this one. Good news is, even with all its problems, this paint job does look better than what I had before. I guess I have no sense of what $1,000 should buy. Having heard that a full-Jag-restoration would be in the $8-20k range, I had relatively low expectations ... and this shop lived "down" to them.

Sounds like no kind of polishing or wetsanding is really going to give me a good result, so I`ll just have to ponder my next step.

Thanks for your time and tips!

**Scottwax** · 08-09-2003, 11:12 PM

Lynn, a factory level repaint should be in the $2500-3500 range. Obviously, a full resto show level paint job will cost more, but you can get a very good paint job for quite a bit less than what the restorers want.

**Accumulator** · 08-10-2003, 10:41 AM

Lynn and I`ve been kicking this around in PM`s and I sure feel bad about her disappointment

Originally posted by Scottwax

Lynn, a factory level repaint should be in the $2500-3500 range. Obviously, a full resto show level paint job will cost more, but you can get a very good paint job for quite a bit less than what the restorers want.

Unfortunately series I-III XJ`s really DO cost that much for a factory-quality repaint (and "factory-quality" in this case isn`t always saying much

). Just too many things that have to come apart, including some that were never MEANT to be disassembled. Not :argue with you or anything Scott, this is just an observation from a guy who has (unfortunately

) an unusual amount of knowledge about repainting Series I-III XJ`s (including a coupe like Lynn`s). You`re absolutely right about what it should cost to paint a "normal" car, these things just aren`t normal in this regard.

Most American shops don`t have a clue about the XJ`s idiosyncrasies (often, you actually NEED a Jag "restorerer" for a simple respray to turn out right). IMO, by the time you do the prep work right, you might as WELL spend extra and get a show-quality paintjob on it. Lotsa messed up XJ repaints out there. Anyhow, just my $0.02...

But none of the above really touches on the REAL problem here, namely that the "painter" didn`t come close to doing his job right, regardless of the cost. It`s not like you only use a clean shop and avoid runs if a customer pays extra. Even Maaco can do a decent job if a) the prep work is done right and b) the painter is "on it" that day.

**chris0626** · 08-11-2003, 09:39 PM

This one`s still making me cringe. Spent all weekend putting the car back together. (Replacing chrome, lights, mirroris, etc.) The closer I looked at the paint, the more flaws I saw.

BTW, I didn`t mention before that we did all the prep work ourselves: removed all trim, chrome, etc, and stripped off all the old paint down to bare metal. Now, having spent the weekend with the car, I see that they not only did lousy work on the paint; they also sprayed the rubber seals, the tires, etc. And some of the "gutters" are too ugly for words; you can see that they just sprayed paint on top of a 1/4" of dust.

And -- though fully aware it was probably futile -- I did try go at it gently (very, very gently -- in light of the thin paint) with the PC and polishes this weekend. They did not even touch the flaws. So I don`t think there`s a detailing solution for this problem. Just have to figure out what, if anything, I can do with the paintshop. I truly believe they did the very best job they could do (which is sad), and they couldn`t do much better if we took the Jag back to them. If anything develops, I`ll let you know.

**Scottwax** · 08-11-2003, 10:43 PM

Accumulator-what is so different about a Jag that would require so much more for a paint job? Removing trim pieces, bumpers, etc should not be that different than any other car and neither should the sanding, prep, primering, painting, etc. I can`t imagine that there are an additional 75-100 hours of work (at $50 an hour) to justify such an outrageous price difference for a basic factory level paint job on a Jag (again, not a hand rubber show level shoot). Can you expound on this?

**SP 325i** · 08-12-2003, 03:52 AM

Yeeeessss!!!!!! Something that costs more in the US than over here in the UK!!!!!!!

Sorry for that, but it doesn`t happen very often, if at all.

I think that you need to find a middle ground between the cheapos and the full on restorers. Do the US restorers want to use the original type paint (cellulose) flatting back between each coat and building up to 10 coats. If so I understand the cost. But using modern low bake paints this cost is ridiculous - esp. if you have fully prepped the car. In the UK for a full respray-with prep- you can pay 3000GBPounds but if you do all the prep this comes down to around 500GBpounds (same shop).

I have resprayed a 197? XJS, and am by no means a good sprayer (I used to work for PPG so had access to good facilities and paint). It takes more time on prep than a usual UK car but I cannot believe that it is any more difficult than US cars. We used 3litres of colourcoat (very excessive) and the same in clear(excessive again).

When having bodywork done always check that they have a prep area and then a clean (preferabably low bake) spray booth. This then gives a fighting chance.

Lynn get your money back. It sounds like they sanded the primer coat and didn#t bother cleaning the car, then spraying in the same area blowing up all the dust. The flat spots indicate low film weight or very dry spraying. They should be paying you.

Steve

**endus** · 08-12-2003, 09:12 AM

Sounds like you got what you paid for. $1k isn`t even close to enough to get a decent paint job on a daily driver...much less anything even remotely classic. I would definitely get rid of the car...the bubbles are coming! My experience with friends who have gotten paint jobs in that range is that they are piss-poor. One friend of mine probably would have been better off at Maaco...at least they would have sprayed the entire car and not missed rocker panels. Seriously, I think Maaco might have actually done a better job...

In any case, most paint shops recommend against polishing or waxing for some time after the paint job to let it cure...30-60 days is what I have heard. I`m sure there are people here who know more than me about that recommendation, but that`s a pretty universal thing. Given that you apparently got a pretty crappy, cheap job, you`re probably better off following that recommendation to prevent screwing up a paint job that`s already hurtin.

I know nothing of jags so excuse my ignorance, but wouldn`t it make more sense to sell the car WITHOUT getting it painted rather than destroy it with a garbage job that someone is just going to have to sand off later on? Do you think that the price you will be able to sell the car for will actually be $1000 higher now that this car has this ghetto paint job? I guess I don`t understand who would buy this car...an enthusiast would probably be willing to pay LESS for the car now and I think a 75 Jag would probably be the last car someone looking for a beater would want. I dunno...I don`t mean to sound like I`m attacking you, I`m just curious about the logic that went into giving a car like that a ****** paint job. Maybe it`s jsut because I know nothing about jags, especially older ones.

**Accumulator** · 08-12-2003, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by Scottwax

Accumulator..Can you expound on this?

Sure, but note my usual disclaimers about "my opinion/experience" etc. etc, even more than usual. Some of this might be of interest to SP 325i, too. It`s based on having prepped a coupe I had (just like Lynn`s) for a repaint, supervising a partial repaint of my father`s `84 XJ6 and my 18-year ownership of my XJS. I`ve painted US cars and have had maybe a dozen cars professionally repainted, from "drivers" to frame-off, "redo the ugly factory welds"-level jobs. Keep in mind that I`m a "realistic perfectionist"

Guess a lot of this gets to be "what`s OK-for-a-driver/show/etc." so we might be arguing (uhm, I mean debating) the same point :nixweiss

To really paint an XJ right, you GOTTA disassemble it, you can`t do much masking. It`ll show up right away. Not just the bumpers and trim, and "glass-out" is only the start of it. There are parts that paint should be UNDER, not ABUTTING. Lotsa fasteners that shouldn`t be painted (or at least not "sealed" with paint), gotta take them apart. There are panel gaps that should be free of paint, gotta take panels off to do it right (e.g., overspray getting in at the bottom of the front fenders makes an AWFUL mess, can`t JUST pull the doors; gotta take the fule tank fillers OUT to get the openings right; man, the list is endless...). Some things that will unbolt on a US car are riveted on XJ`s- REAL can `o worms there! It`s easier to repaint MOST ANY car than it is to do one of these things (right).

Again, maybe I`m just too much of a perfectionist, at least where Jags are concerned. But MOST repainted XJ/XJS`s just look embarrassingly bad to me. OK from 10 feet away, and maybe OK to people who don`t know `em very well. But not good enough for ME to live with. So I live with an XJS with the world`s WORST FACTORY PAINTJOB EVER :angry , and LOTS of cosmetic problems. I just have rust work done when it needs it (hence some of my PAINFULLY earned knowledge about what one SHOULD NOT do) and try to keep it as original as possible. Heh heh, I have a lot of baggage coloring my opinions on this Jag-painting issue....maybe not an awful thing in this instance, as there aren`t too many XJ *COUPES* out there and it`s a shame for one to get botched.