Blackfire users inside...What do you use to apply and remove

[Bill87GN]

I decided on giving Blackfire a try on my newly painted Grand National. The newer formula seems to be getting killer reviews.

Being that this is NEW paint would you use the polish/cleaner first? or skip that and go straight to the wax? I can`t wax the car for a month or two, but when it`s time I want to be ready.

Also, if you are using both of these products, what do you use to apply each of them and remove each of them? Foam pad and waffle weaves? Foam and cotton? Cotton an MF?



Thanks guys, all opinions are welcome

[Accumulator]

Bill87GN- Cool car :xyxthumbs . Did you have it reshot in single-stage or a base-clearcoat? Just curious.



I don`t know for sure, but I THINK I`d go ahead and use the BF polish. Or maybe P21S GEPC instead. But I`d do SOMETING before the BFII. Actually, based on my (and Nick T.`s) BFII experience, I`d use Platinum Ultimate Paint Protection instead of BFII, but that`s just my $0.02.



I suggest you apply (any of the above) with a foam applicator and remove with a plush (NOT waffle-weave) MF, or MAYBE remove the BFII (or PUPP) with a suede-style MF.



But I`d go with GEPC then PUPP. Others will offer differing advice...BFII IS popular with some people.

[imported_Aurora40]

I think the BF polish is up to you. This last time I just put BF on over the Meg`s SFP. It still looked awesome.



I use a PC and a finishing pad to apply the BF. Make sure to be thin! I can really probably do my whole car with 1/2 ounce or less. I let it sit a while (1-2 hours) then buff with an MF towel. I then come back after another hour or so and do a final buff with another MF and some QD (BF QD, but you could use whatever). This takes care of any smearing that didn`t buff off the first time. Yeah, it`s an extra step, but to me the look, slickness, and super beading are worth it. I can`t really comment on the durability as I don`t go that long before reapplying.



FYI, I have 3 shots of a GN in my gallery...

[Bill87GN]

Thanks Guys

Accumulator: It`s been reshot base/clear. It`s just waiting to be wetsanded now.

Aurora: Nice `86. Do you detail these professionally? I saw the Aurora with the blackfire and MAN, that is beautiful. That`s what got me thinking about BF.

Thanks again guys. Your info and recommendations are priceless

[imported_Aurora40]

Originally posted by Bill87GN

Aurora: Nice `86. Do you detail these professionally?

Nope, it belongs to an almost relation of mine. It`s a nice car that I felt needed some TLC. It sits in a garage all the time, but it rarely even gets washed. I just felt bad for it. I wish I`d had a digital camera at the time (or thought to use my film camera) as the difference in before/after on that thing was astounding. You can probably do a search if you are curious about the whole story. I don`t think there are too many threads about Grand Nationals.

[hondaguy2582]

as much as i don`t like removing the bf2, the shine, slickness, and durability is there for me. I put it over klasse aio, and its still going after 5 weeks with minimal washing.

[Bill87GN]

Abercrombie:

How is the BF hard to remove? Does it smear? Is this because too much is used?

Just trying to get a grasp on this before I buy everything

[Accumulator]

Bill87GN- Smart move going basecoat-clear :up . Gee, that`s about the only time I`ll say something so "non-traditionalist"!



Since Aurora40, ejant, and Patrick, among others, get such great results with the BFII I can certainly understand your wanting to try it. I just somehow haven`t got the knack for it yet, odd as it`s the only product I can EVER remember having real trouble with (I think SG is a piece of cake). We`ll see what Abercrombie2582 says, but in my case I got BARELY noticeable smearing that just wouldn`t go away until I washed the car. Silver Audi S8, FAR less than one oz to do the car, applied mostly with a random orbital. Waited about an hour before removing, climate-controlled garage with low humidity. Wiping down with the BF QD and a plush MF (also tried cotton) helped a good bit, but didn`t completely solve the problem. Smearing gone with one wash, but so was a LITTLE of the shine. Still, the car DOES still look great, even months later.



I HAVE resolved NOT to try something else until I`ve worked with the BFII some more. You guys who have success with it really have me scratching my head.

[imported_Aurora40]

Originally posted by Accumulator

Wiping down with the BF QD and a plush MF (also tried cotton) helped a good bit, but didn`t completely solve the problem. Smearing gone with one wash, but so was a LITTLE of the shine. Still, the car DOES still look great, even months later.



I HAVE resolved NOT to try something else until I`ve worked with the BFII some more. You guys who have success with it really have me scratching my head.

It might just be that this is how you need to apply it. You might have to decide if having the car a little smeary until its next wash is worth the shine/beading/durability/what-have-you to you. I apply BF quite thinnly and give it a good amount of time to cure before buffing. I still get smearing until I later QD the car. I just sort of accept that that`s how I will have to apply this stuff. I like the results, and it isn`t too much extra work, so I`ll keep doing it for now. :nixweiss

[hondaguy2582]

what i did is i applied it thin, and waited about 12 hrs(in garage obviously) and removed it with an mf towel(don`t even bother with cotton, youll get streaks everywhere), i love the shine, durability, and slickness of bf2, but again, like everyone has said on this board, get platinum ultimate paint protection(pupp) at www.premiumautocare.com . Reason i say this is because the diff between these products is minimal, the pupp is about 12 bucks cheaper than bf2, and its easier to apply. I got my bf2 for free, so im not complaining, but if i was to get another polymer besides bf2 and klasse twins, id be getting platinum upp.

[Nick T.]

Here’s my Blackfire2 experience - -

I bought it in mid-February, started playing with it and found that on my black paint it had good depth and shine, but there was a lot of oiliness and smudging. Tried several different techniques for application/removal, all with poor results. Tried BF2 on my white paint, better results, but still not really acceptable. :down



Having read posts on another detailing board from others saying that they had no oiliness problems I phoned CMA and asked to talk with a Blackfire expert. I was told that there have been no changes in the formulation of BF since 10/2002 and they have received no complaints about BF2 oiliness. He said that maybe I got a bad batch and offered to send me a replacement bottle. UPS should be delivering it today. Will give it a try and post the results soon. The CMA tech was friendly and knowledgeable. :up



Been doing a lot of playing with Platinum and am really pleased with it! :xyxthumbs





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[TortoiseAWD]

Originally posted by ejant

IMO BF is hard to remove because of the smearing which I believe is too much product and not a long enough wait time.

If you get smearing usually waiting a bit longer and using a QD solves the problem and you wind up with great results.

That`s what I thought, too . . . except I used 4.5 mL to do the entire car, and waited over two hours before trying to remove when I tried BFII. Still got smearing. QD helped, but only if I used a whole lot of QD on the panel. The smearing did disappear after the following wash, but I`d rather use something that, from past experience, I know will wipe off cleanly.



Others have had excellent results with BFII, and that`s great. Especially if I decide to sell what`s left of my bottle on abay.



I`ll give it one more try sometime this spring, and try a few different techniques. If it still smears, it`s up for sale.



Tort

[Patrick]

Foam and MF.........

Foam for hand or PC....(polish)

Foam by hand for sealant, or you will end up using too much product, youll probably leave more on your pad than you will use on the entire car by hand.....Personaly, i prefer doing it on a sunny day (And thats not asking a lot being in So Cal.) The reason i do this is this....after applying sealant, and allowing a wait time, 2 hrs ?(Varies depending on temp, humidity...Humidity is a big part of this IMO), remove with MF...Then I prefer to take it in the sun, and let it warm up, I think this thins the remaining oils and allows for easier removal of any smearing, which is a downside for many users, apparently....I have really found this to be a key in my BF success....As for using Platinums polish, entirely up to you...I just dont get the same results without using anything other than BF polish....and Ive used many polishes in testing prior to BF sealant (Platinum, Clearkote, Rightlook, AIO, Kicka**, Wizards, 3M SMR-worked very well)....I always prefer BF polish. Not to say nothing else will work, because they will. I took me many months to find out the technique that worked for me .

I am to BF II, as Accumulator is to Klasse, for the life of me, I can not use Klasse with any success, but I ended up just giving up on it after 3 unsuccessful coats ( Finally thought to myself, "Why do i need to put on so many coats if this stuff is so good?") I occasionally use AIO however, I like that stuff, good, quick, EZ2 use product, limited durability, but good as long as you top it !

[Nick T.]

Originally posted by Nick T.

He said that maybe I got a bad batch and offered to send me a replacement bottle. UPS should be delivering it today. Will give it a try and post the results soon.

The big brown truck brought me the replacement bottle of BF2 about noon today and I’ve been playing with it ever since. On my black paint it still is very oily and smudgy.



For a test area I RO buffed the deck lid with SMR, again with GEPC, and washed with a Dawn solution - so I was down to bare clean paint. Repeated the buffing and washing several times during the day. I tried thin coats, super thin coats, removing right after hazing, after a longer wait (2 hours), after 2 hours with a 500W halogen 16� from the test area, removing with and without help from QD or water. No matter what I did there would be smearing if I wiped my finger across the test area (and I did remember to wipe my finger with alcohol before testing). I’ll call CMA tomorrow and see if they can help with ideas.



Enough wiping with a MF and QD would remove the oiliness, but the depth disappeared along with the oil. Either I’m just not smart enough to use BF2, or I’m too anal about my paint’s appearance.



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[Patrick]

Nick, I realize your efforts have not yet been satisfactory with BF II. If you finally just wanna throw the MF in, let me know, I would like to purchase your BF remnants.....