I have pure #1 Brazilian Carnauba. Teach me how to make a wax!

[Porter]

Greetings all, this is my first post on Autopia.



Like many people, I was recently intrigued by the absurd cost of the high end Zymol waxes. I have used a number of different products in the past including Mothers, Zaino, Zymol, etc. so I began to wonder what in the world could cause these Zymol formulations to be so expensive. I mean, it`s car wax, not rocket science.



So I looked a little deeper, and the main factor that I can see as a differentiator in these products is Carnauba content... I believe getting as high as 80% for the ultra-expensive versions.



So I thought to myself, why not get some real carnauba from a distributor and play with some formulations myself? I`m a bit of a hands-on type of guy.



So I have a shipment of rock hard 100% pure #1 Brazilian Carnauba wax on the way as we speak. Obviously pure Carnauba has the consistency of concrete, and it will require heating to its melting point (86deg Celsius) and mixture with some kind of solvent to produce a usable wax product.



Obviously as it dries, largely pure Carnauba will become quite hard, so I will be doing small sections and probably using an orbital buffer to even the wax, then hand buff for shine.





Does anyone know what kind of solvent can be mixed with pure Carnauba that will produce a hard paste result that can be applied to paint, yet is safe for the finish on an automobile?



I`ve done a little research, and the average solvents used in the furniture polishing industry where Carnauba is prevalent seem to be far too caustic... things like paint thinner (gack!), napthla, turpentine, mineral spirits, etc etc.





Yes, I know... I`m a freak. Any thoughts on this project or advice for me?







-Porter

[Porter]

Excellent... mineral spirits won`t strip the paint or cause damage to the finish? Mineral spirits are odorless I believe...



:wavey

[medic159]

I`m intriqued by this and anxious to see your results.

[jcattarulla]

Good for you! A true pioneer!

Where did you order your "100% pure Carnauba" from?

[Porter]

Originally posted by jcattarulla

Good for you! A true pioneer!

Where did you order your "100% pure Carnauba" from?

Why, do you want to buy some? LOL, let me see if this stuff works well... if it does, I may start a side business selling the finished product for cheap. If it doesn`t, I`ll release the details for all and sundry so someone else can improve on it and build the better mousetrap.

[Porter]

Does anyone else have any thoughts re: a solvent to use? I`ll probably refrain from putting coconut and banana oil in like the fancy brands... I don`t need it to smell like a Pina Colada or suntan lotion...

[Paintxpert]

Good luck

[Porter]

Originally posted by ejant

:welcome to Autopia.



As you say high end carnauba are rock hard. I think you`ll find the directions that come with the wax will tell you to appy it by using your hand, this is to warm the wax.

I don`t think you`re understanding... this isn`t a high end carnauba based product...



This is pure 100% Carnauba wax, direct from the tree. It has the consistency of concrete and melts around 180 degrees F.



I`m trying to figure out what to mix with it once melted so that it produces a paste with a much lower melting point, yet won`t damage the paint.



I`m going to have to melt it up in a double boiler and then stir in the solvent to whatever consistency I need... I`m just trying to figure out a solvent.



....somebody shoot me, my GF thinks I`m nuts.

[dr427]

HOLY COW !!!!

[Porter]

Originally posted by BlackRegal

The guy to ask would be DETAILKING. He`s a chemist I think, are has a strong chemistry background. Send him a pm.

Excellent, thanks!

[forrest@mothers]

Good luck. There`s more to making it than adding a solvent. I`d also be careful at adding a solvent to something that`s 180º+, since (depending on the solvent), it may combust.



Other additives will be needed to allow it to spread.



I think there`s a chemistry website around somewhere that has instructions for making your own wax. Maybe a google search?

[chris0626]

Originally posted by Porter

I`m trying to figure out what to mix with it once melted so that it produces a paste with a much lower melting point, yet won`t damage the paint.

OK, you`re trying to build a better/different mousetrap. Why use a solvent to make it a liquid or paste like all the other waxes? I`m having this vision: You do something-or-other to it. Then you sell it in a little fondue pot or butter-warmer dish. So when an Autopian wants to detail, they just bring out the fondue pot, plop in a cube of Porter`s Pure Carnauba to the melting point, and brushes it on the paintwork.



BTW, you can tell I`m kidding, right?

[Poorboy]

I thinks she`s right your dealing with stuff companies build labs to make and test...I wish you good luck and wear protective gear at all times:xyxthumbs

[DETAILKING]

Be careful.......



One thing to note, is that carnuba content has little to do with durability. Having 100% or even close to 100 % carnuba is impossible, the formulation would be too hard to work with. A lot of company`s use the term 80% pure carnuba........and what it means is that part of the formulation that is wax, is 80% pure. Most formulations have anwhere from 1-15% carnuba BY VOLUME.



Carnuba wax is added to a formulation typically in flakes or pellet form. One way is to melt it and add it to a formulation of solvents to keep it fluid. I wouldn`t suggest doing this at home as most solvents are flammible and have low flashpoints.



In addition to carnuba wax and solvents, there are typically other ingredients too. Parafin, and/or polyethylene wax is added to increase durability, and provide water beading. Also, an oil is needed for shine, and depending on what oil is used, an emulsifier might be needed to keep the product from separating.



If you want to mix chemicals, I would start with glazes, that provide shine, and maybe some cleaning ability with no protection. Once you get that down, then figure out how to add wax for protection.....



Good luck and wear your safety glasses........



DK

[LOTA OT]

I can really add nothing concrete to this thread other than it sounds really interesting. I did a quick search and came across a list of the zymol products and their contents. Looks like they all contain various ethers (probably to soften the carnauba) and various oils either for frangrance or keeping the wax softer/spreadable at a lower temp.



http://www.sportscarworld.ltd.uk/mai...de.htm#destiny



One thing is for sure, with a really high carauba content, it`s going to be tough to spread and god help you if it hardens on your paint before you can buff it off.



I`d be interested in what happens.....keep us posted.



Michael