Blackfire Afpp

**MicroRacer** · 03-30-2003, 02:49 PM

To begin with, Is their an all new BF AFPP formula?? I was at CMA looking at the new BF products and they recomended leting the (new) BF cure for 12 hrs. What`s up? This was not recomended on the "old" BF which I posess. Anyway, I got my new MENZERNA polish last week and was very curious to see what what Germany really knows about polish. My black Cobra already had a decent shine from several layers each of Liquid glass, some Dura Gloss and Zymol (blue) polish. I`m comming out of winter, so I began with the clay bar. Then after the second layer of the Menzerna.....very noticable differance. The shine improved with each layer there after. The Germans definatly know their stuff when it comes to polish!

Enitaly I chose Klasse SG, but as I said in the other thread, It was exstreemly dificult to remove. I didn`t know if it was the temp, humidity or if it just wasn`t compatible with the Menzerna. Time being a factor, I went for the BF. No problems ever in the past. After three quick layers w/ the Porter Cable, It seemed like it knocked the Menzerna`s killer shine down a bit.

Not dull, but disapointing. No major improvment. I buffed the whole car with a MF bonnet & a QD and it did seem to improve but, there was no sun here yesterday so the results are probably a little decieving. Not a dilema, just a pisser! There is no sun today either, so I`ll just let it cure. I think it will be adiquite if not what I had anticipated. I plan on trying the SG again with tips from SERGE & ACCUMULATOR and hopefully I`ll get at least a couple of layers of SG put down. At least I`ll have some protection. :nixweiss If the method of removing the SG suggested by ACCUMULATOR & SERGE works out......then I`m on to the SOUVERAN (paste) & liquid Souveran for the rest of the summer.

PEACE

**Anthony O.** · 03-30-2003, 04:48 PM

X-man,

There is a difference between the Blackfire of old and the new and improved formula. I have yet to use the new formula so I cannot really comment on the new one. I do use the old formula and I let it set up about 20 to 30 minutes and have had no problem with it sticking or smearing. I have even wiped it down in as little as 15 minutes with no real problem. Blackfire does not seem to have the gloss and shine of a few other sealants but it does give the finish a nice even tone and that is what you may be experiencing. Also I notice, if I read it correctly, you laid down 3 quick layers of the Blackfire and this may be where you are getting problems. Try one layer and see how that is but wait at least 12 to 24 hours before adding another layer and instead of adding more layers you may just want to use a carnuba topper after 24 hours.

As for the AIO, try using alot less than you are now and work it in until it is almost all gone.

I work with the Menzerna also, both the Intensive and the Final polishes, and I believe they do a great job also but they are not going to replace my main arsenal of polishes. They will compliment them.

Anthony

Patrick · 03-30-2003, 11:47 PM

I dont believe the old formula has ANY cleaners in it. Very mysterious that it didnt look better after application. Ive never encountered that one before. Like Anthony said, you need to give it some time. Although in the past, I have layered BF II on top of initial application, without removing.... Easy on easy off, no smearing, smudging, no grudging !, resuts were superior to anything ive used before. BF II just needs a little experimenting with, on the users part. I used it today in conjunction with Platinum Paint cleaner, Vanilla moose....I found the VM to even everything out, then the bf just enhanced what the VM left behind.......

""Blackfire does not seem to have the gloss and shine of a few other sealants ""

Of all the products i have in my arsenal, Wizards, Klasse, Clearkote, Platinum, Meg`s, S100, Rightlook, and Gliptone, I keep coming back to BF.. With the exception of tha last two, which havent been truly tested/used.....Platinum running a close 2nd....

XMAN, was there a reason you didnt go with BF`s polish ??

**hondaguy2582** · 03-31-2003, 12:25 AM

im doing the same thing that xman is doing this week on my car. Im going to get my aio on wed, and im going to top it with bf2. Reason i didn`t choose bf2 bc klasse aio does the same thing as bf2 does, and offers protection and you can layer anything over it.

**Accumulator** · 03-31-2003, 12:22 PM

Anthony Orosco- I`ll be interested to hear what you experience when you try BFII. I`ve found it to be quite a bit trickier to use than BFI. Some people have worse trouble with it than I do, others have NO problems at all. I keep thinking I must be doing something wrong, but nothing seems to completely solve the smearing problem while keeping the "BF look". My experience with BFII mirrors Nick T.`s.

Patrick- I gather you DID NOT use the BF polish, just put the AFPP over your VM (please correct me if I`m wrong). Glad to hear it worked for you, I`ve been curious about this combo and wondered if the VM and BFII would be compatible.

Anyone else with VM/BFII experience please chime in!

X-MAN- Yeah, the BF isn`t quite as reflective/shiny as some products (the Audi with Pinnacle Creme Glaze + 3M Show Car Paste is MUCH more reflective than the one with BFII), but I`m surprised it seemed to compromise the look you had after the Menzerna. I`m starting to think that BFII just isn`t the best thing for some of us.

The SG on my MPV came off EASILY after the 24 hour (actually a bit longer) cure time. There were a few spots where I`d applied it WAY TOO thick (almost like a layman applying paste wax :p ), those took a little more effort, but certainly no big deal. I didn`t have to resort to a QD or anything. My wife buffed it off about half the vehicle and remarked that it was easy for her, too. This was with dry (suede-style) MF`s, fogging the surface with our breath before wiping (I`d turned down the heat in the garage so the fogging really, well, fogged the surface- maybe the moisture of this condensation helped?). Having thought about this, I remember that I once left the SG on for over 48 hours (!) and it came off easy as could be. That was in the summer when the breath-fogging wouldn`t have been as effective. Yeah, silver is forgiving, but still, I find the SG more foolproof than the BFII, by far.

BTW, which MF bonnets did you use? I`ve pretty much retired my Viper ones, not soft/plush enough, at least for my "good" cars. I`ve VERY big on machine application and removal (I even apply paste wax by machine!), but I usually get better SG/BFII removal results doing it by hand using the "suede-style" MF`s. I WILL do a final buff with (again, sued-style) MF bonnets and a little QD if I`m feeling like it, but for the most part, I`ve (reluctantly) resigned myself to removing sealants by hand.

**imported_Intermezzo** · 03-31-2003, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by Patrick

I dont believe the old formula has ANY cleaners in it. Very mysterious that it didnt look better after application.

Actually, the old blackfire formula had abrasives. It`s been documented pretty well here on Autopia.

X-MAN, if you feel the BF protectant diminished the shine from your prep job, most likely it was due to the cleaning agents from your `original` BF product.

BFII is definitely non-abrasive and very gentle. My experience with BFII is a bit contrary to Accumulator`s. I felt that it provided an exceptional shine. Maybe not super-reflective, but that`s not what I was shooting for. I personally had trouble getting it to buff out without streaks, but once you get the product buffed properly, the shine is truly amazing.

**Accumulator** · 03-31-2003, 01:57 PM

Intermezzo- Heh heh, I get the feeling our BFII experiences and expectations aren`t all that different after all; I probably didn`t come across quite as I`d intended. The car I use BF on is one where I want a "carnauba-like" look, not the super-reflective synthetic look (the look on my PCG+3M Audi isn`t SG or Z-like either, just different). I didn`t mean to overstate subtle differences. I honestly can`t decide whether I`m satisfied with how the BFII looks or not, so I probably like it better than I imply or I`d just switch. But when I lose the streaks, I seem to lose some of the look I like. I`m glad it`s working out for you (and many others), I just find it puzzling how different people (who know what they`re doing and seem to want the same look) get such different results. And I sometimes think I`m a bit

to split hairs like this (especially since I`m working with silver- I`d drive myself and others nuts if I still had black and red cars).

X-MAN- Sorry, my previous SG vs. BF comments applied to BFII. Now I get your "BF more foolproof than SG". As Intermezzo said, there are significant differences between the two BF formulas and the BFI is much more abrasive (BFII is virtually NON-abrasive). But BFI WAS pretty much foolproof, especially compared with BFII.

The abrasives in your BFI could very well be coarser than those in your Menzerna (they are supposedly stronger than Meg #9 2.0, surprised me!). Thinking back to when I used BFI, it DID slightly lessen the gloss I`d achieved prior to its application; it looked like micro-marring when viewed under magnification. At the time I wondered if it was the Viper MF bonnets or the BFI, and so I stopped using them both and then BFII came out. I honestly don`t know whether to recommend BFII or not, given the disparity of results. Nick T., whose experiences mirrored mine, has me ALMOST ready to try PUPP but I have all this BFI and BFII just sitting here saying "I work fine for lots of other people, what`s your problem?"

**imported_Intermezzo** · 03-31-2003, 03:01 PM

Accumulator, hehe, yeah I think we`re on pretty similar ground here. Although I do like the BF shine, I find that dealing with the streaks and smears is just too much for me. There are plenty of other products out there that buff out with no effort and leave a crystal clear surface with no finger-printing or smudges when you touch it, and BFII ain`t one of them! I have since given away my bottle of BF II to a fellow Autopian.

LoL, I know what you`re saying about working fine for lots of other people. I hear great reviews and how it`s so easy to work with and wonder to myself if we`re actually using the same product! I went through about 15 MF`s to properly buff BFII and the car was still very prone to smears. The only thing that took care of the problem was applying a coat of P21S right over the smearing.....beautiful shine with not a swirl in sight.

I agree...the BFI abrasives were pretty coarse. Left significant marring when used on a CD......much more than products like GEPC or AIO.

I received my order of the Platinum kit a few weeks ago and it buffs out easier than BFII, doesn`t smear as much, and leaves every bit as good a shine. :xyxthumbs

**Spilchy** · 03-31-2003, 04:40 PM

12 hours - 24 hours?!

I spoke to Terry at CMA and he said wait 8 hours. He also said that if you are topping with a carnuba (p21s and Souveran) he said do not use an additional coat. It won`t make a difference.

I think he knows his stuff.

**MicroRacer** · 03-31-2003, 05:03 PM

WOA! I`m a little behind on this thread. Thanx for all the responses.I would like to address each one but that`s probably not practical, so this will be more or less a generalization comment. First off...I don`t ever use AIO, not nesissary for me. Today I washed it and wiped it down good & I can live with the results. One thing I did gain was...drying. The drying process was much easier.Accumlator I once again agree with you about the abrasives in the BF1. I had the same therory on it, going on over the Menzerna.And you are absoloutly rigt about the "easy on easy off" of the BF1. It`s almost like wiping off dust.Oh yes, and I do use MF bonnets, in this case it was only to buff it out with QD. I removed it with a MF towel. I always remove by hand. Even with all the negative oppinions on BFII, Intermezzo you keep me curious about it. And that was the one thing I always disliked about the BF1, was the abrasives.

Abercrombie2582....I don`t exactly think I know where you`re commin` from. ?? The thing I don`t like about the AIO is I don`t want to do anything "all in one" step. I prefer the hard way...one step at a time.

Patrick....good question. I`ve always used the BF polish right before the BF1 on others vehicles and always on my old Cobra (also black) This may have been a mistake

I was just so pleased with the Menzerna that I skipped the BF polish. I knew it could not top what the Menzerna had acheived.

Anthony......you did read correctly.....and you may have a point about the curing time. I basicly did not do anything that I have not done many,many times before. It always worked very well for me on my old Cobra, but then again, I always applied it over the BF polish & never over the Menzerna. As for the Carnuba topper...well that was my inital plan, but it will be the very last thing I do. Now that I have rethought my statement about "loosing my other polishes" I agree with you...they can only compliment the Menzerna. :doh BTW...what are your feeligs about the Menzerna (polish) ?? You can PM me. And if anyone else has an oppinion on the Menzerna I would like to hear from you.:xyxthumbs

Still curious about the new BF.

My problems usually come with the SG rather than the BF, but I`m going that direction next, using Serge & Accumulator`s method of removal..

PEACE

**stoneweed1** · 04-01-2003, 04:16 PM

i agree with the Blackfire II being a synthetic that is very difficult to buff off. despite using extremely scant amount of wax, it smears and seems almost impossible to wipe off properly and leaves a haze. the only recourse is to apply a layer of Souveran over it and it looks fine.....but that is a step i feel that should be an optional step and not a compulsory step of the regimen.

and then i read posts of people who laud the Blackfire and i wonder what i`m doing incorrectly. i`ll just continue to use the BF AFPP till i`m finished with the BF allfinish paint protection and then try platinum or another product that is easier to buff off and does not require a mandatory layer of souveran to get rid of the smears and haze.

**2wheelsx2** · 04-01-2003, 04:26 PM

Try the Platinum. I have not tried the BF or BFII so I cannot compare, but I got the PUPP with my Klasse twins and the UPP is so easy to buff off it was insane. As easy as my Meguiar`s #20, but much better shine. For $14, it was a steal. I am doing some long term testing comparing it to Klasse SG, but if I had to choose, I would rather apply Platinum once a month than SG once every 2 months.