Understanding MF`s

**Hawkeye_TDI** · 11-21-2002, 05:51 PM

I just got 5 MF`s from Microfibertech (elite). As I`m reading I got a wicked chill down my spine.

Everything I`ve read and heard, here and elsewhere, clearly states the anthing but 100% cotton will scratch paint. ESPECIALLY POLYESTER! How is it that these MF`s which are 80% polyester are the exception?

Thanks in advance!

PS. Has anyone ever heard of AUTO TECNIK MF"S. I have two and they are WAY softer then the MF Elites I just received. Now I`m not sure I want to use them. My Auto tecniks are not "nappy" like the MF techs. They are flat and smooth.

I`m totally confused

HELP!

Bruce

**imported_BretFraz** · 11-21-2002, 06:08 PM

Read about microfiber here:

http://www.properautocare.com/micwhatbigde.html

There is a lot more to microfiber than what you think or know.

I`ve never heard of those companies so I can`t comment.

**medic159** · 11-21-2002, 07:42 PM

I have to disagree with the above site, microfiber is NOT strictly a man made fiber. It certainly can be natural and does not have to be polyester or nylon.

**Hawkeye_TDI** · 11-21-2002, 09:04 PM

That site is biased. All the info is based on selling thier product. If any one knows of some impartial source of info I`d like to know about it.

Until then I`m not letting polyester touch my baby.

Bruce

**shaf** · 11-21-2002, 09:05 PM

I think I`ve learned somewhere that you can also make "microfiber" out of rayon, which starts off as cellulose, which comes from plants.... After all this processing, do you still categorize it as "man made" or not?

I have a pretty good opinion of microfiber at the moment though. I`ve done a CD scratch test on 3 different MF cloths (TW, generic hardware store brand, and cheap lint-fest MFs) and none of them scratched the CD even when rubbed hard.

**Hawkeye_TDI** · 11-21-2002, 09:12 PM

Does anyone know the difference between the Loomey or waffle style and a completely smooth flat type? I have two very flat and 10 times softer than either cotton or the elite , waffle towels I just got from microfiber tech.

:bounce

**medic159** · 11-21-2002, 10:18 PM

Originally posted by 4DSC

I think I`ve learned somewhere that you can also make "microfiber" out of rayon, which starts off as cellulose, which comes from plants.... After all this processing, do you still categorize it as "man made" or not?

NO, Rayon (also known as Viscose) is not considered a man made fiber. While Rayon does come from tree pulp it is considered regenerated cellulose with manufactured cellulose fibers added where the hydrogen molecules have been replaced. Calling Rayon a natural fiber would be like calling polyester a natural fiber because it is originally derived from a natural material, that being oil!

To be considered not man made or natural the molecular make up must not have been changed and the yarn must be extruded or spun from the plant or animal unaltered except for dyes, bleaches, or cleansing agents.

Keep this in mind: If the fabric is soft, has good absorption, does not scratch your car, is easily cleaned, and lasts you a long time then USE IT! Whether it is made of natural or man made fibers or woven or knitted or comprised of microfiber or standard denier yarns should, in the long run, make no difference! If you like it and you get good results then that`s all you need to concern yourself with.

**imported_memnuts** · 11-22-2002, 09:00 AM

I am confused. You stated that you purchased your MF`s from "Microfiber technique (elite)". Did you mean MicrofiberTech located in San Diego, Ca?

Second, why did you purchases items that you did not research prior to purchase? These questions should have been addressed prior to purchase.JMO

Finally,like silicone, polymer fibers can not be evaluated as a group. Each has sub-divisions of the general class. Some good for detailing (MF`s, waffle-weave MF), some bad( old or new T shirts, cheap bath towels, etc.). As Bretfraz stated do some research. The polyester fiber blends (80/20 or 70/30) of a

quality MF will not marr a CLEAN surface of a car.

If you are talking about "MicrofiberTech " MF`s, my short experience with both their Elite and Ultra was quite favorable. The Elite is extremely plush and soft. The Ultra is also soft but not as plush as the Elite but plush enough for safe car detailing ( 3 of my cars have Black finishes and 2 with Red). Both are also well constructed ( seams ). I actual love MicrofiberTech`s towels along with PakShak`s MF`s. If you have found a better towel at a price you are willing to pay, stick with it. I just find it hard to believe that your initial impression of the MicrofiberTech Elite towel to be anything but paint friendly. Please clarify if you are talking about MicrofiberTech or Microfiber technique (elite). This is very important to everyone here at Autopia. Consistancy of product seems to be a problem that I have been detecting concerning MF`s. Could this be a case of that lack of consistancy? :nixweiss .

That is why we must know MicrofiberTech or Microfiber technique (elite).

**dbruene** · 11-22-2002, 11:29 AM

My understanding about the subject is that microfiber is determined by the final size of each individual strand of material and the way it`s spun. Microfiber is way finer than a lot of other materials, including silk. With proper techniques, I doubt if one can damage the clearcoat with either silk or microfiber towels. I agree with both DFTowel and 4DSC, as long as it`s something nice, soft and absorbent, and as long as one tested it out on a small section first, it wouldn`t hurt. Even top quality cotton towels are by design coarser then microfiber ones. Just my opinion and observations, of course.

A local retailer demonstrated some Pakshak towel once by wiping away a few squirt of clear machine oil on a glass surface with just "one wipe, turn the cloth, and then a second finishing wipe." The glass top was totally streaky clean even though the towel seems to have been used many many times before. I have a box of fresh new Pakshap (came in yesterday, but washed, of course) waiting to pamper my car outside the next moring. Can`t wait for the sun to come up! It`s Zaino time!

BTW, 4DSC, plenty mahalo for your excellent article on Porter Cable, which helped a great deal in research and understanding for non-techie novice like myself.

:wavey

**shaf** · 11-22-2002, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by solara

BTW, 4DSC, plenty mahalo for your excellent article on Porter Cable, which helped a great deal in research and understanding for non-techie novice like myself.

:wavey

You`re very welcome! I know it`s a bit heavy reading sometimes, but it was long enough as is! :p

**medic159** · 11-22-2002, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by solara

My understanding about the subject is that microfiber is determined by the final size of each individual strand of material and the way it`s spun. Microfiber is way finer than a lot of other materials, including silk. With proper techniques, I doubt if one can damage the clearcoat with either silk or microfiber towels.:wavey

Folks, again everyone is confusing size and content. The term "microfiber" ONLY refers to the denier or diameter of a strand of yarn, NOT what it is made out of. You can have a micro denier yarn of cotton, or flax, or cellulose, or polyester, or nylon, or any of a number of fibers. Typically microfiber refers to any possible micro denier yarn that is much finer than would be normal under traditional spinning or extruding techniques. Silk, for example, is typically twice as think as the typical microfiber polyester. If you could get the moth to make a cocoon of silk where the diameter is 1/2 normal then it too could be considered a microfiber. Years ago this was attempted using spider webs but the yarn was never strong enough.

**Hawkeye_TDI** · 11-22-2002, 09:29 PM

Ok I did some research and found the following:

The type of towels I refer to as flat are considered suede, I think.

I tried a CD test and found that my 100% cotton was indeed scratching the Cd. So I lubricated the cotton with Z6 and the scratching stopped. Neither of the Mf`s scratched unless I really bore down on it. Very interesting results.

My conclusion is that the swirls I was getting while Qding were caused by the cotton! I`m shocked.

Is this Cd test a true example od a car finish? If so I`m a MF user from here on out.

Can anyone shed some light on this?

Thank you, Thank you Thank you!

Bruce

:bounce

**Hawkeye_TDI** · 11-22-2002, 09:35 PM

Originally posted by blkZ28Conv

I am confused. You stated that you purchased your MF`s from "Microfiber technique (elite)". Did you mean MicrofiberTech located in San Diego, Ca?

Second, why did you purchases items that you did not research prior to purchase? These questions should have been addressed prior to purchase.JMO

Finally,like silicone, polymer fibers can not be evaluated as a group. Each has sub-divisions of the general class. Some good for detailing (MF`s, waffle-weave MF), some bad( old or new T shirts, cheap bath towels, etc.). As Bretfraz stated do some research. The polyester fiber blends (80/20 or 70/30) of a

quality MF will not marr a CLEAN surface of a car.

If you are talking about "MicrofiberTech " MF`s, my short experience with both their Elite and Ultra was quite favorable. The Elite is extremely plush and soft. The Ultra is also soft but not as plush as the Elite but plush enough for safe car detailing ( 3 of my cars have Black finishes and 2 with Red). Both are also well constructed ( seams ). I actual love MicrofiberTech`s towels along with PakShak`s MF`s. If you have found a better towel at a price you are willing to pay, stick with it. I just find it hard to believe that your initial impression of the MicrofiberTech Elite towel to be anything but paint friendly. Please clarify if you are talking about MicrofiberTech or Microfiber technique (elite). This is very important to everyone here at Autopia. Consistancy of product seems to be a problem that I have been detecting concerning MF`s. Could this be a case of that lack of consistancy? :nixweiss .

That is why we must know MicrofiberTech or Microfiber technique (elite).

I was reffering to microfibertech.com, elite. And yes they are very soft and supple. These along with my "suede type" did NOT scratch the cd.

Sorry for the confusion.

BTW I did the research and new about the 80-20 or 70-30 I was just asking everyones opinion after the fact. I neede reassurrance. Thanks guys!

Bruce

**shaf** · 11-22-2002, 09:51 PM

Originally posted by Bruce Peter

Is this Cd test a true example od a car finish? If so I`m a MF user from here on out.

NO the CD test is not representative of a car finish. It is much softer, so something that scratches a CD does not necessarily scratch car paint.

Because of this, there are many critics of the CD scratch test and of how valid it is. Personally I still find it informative and useful.

The general rule is: If a product does not scratch a CD, it is safe. If a product does scratch a CD, more testing is warranted.

What this means is, just because something causes light marring on a CD doesn`t mean it`s automatically junk. I kind of think it depends on how badly it scratches the CD myself. It`s not a perfect science, but it`s better than nothing.

BTW, I also found some 100% cotton stuff I had to also produce very faint marring on a CD. But I still judged them safe in the end because it was so slight.

**samiam513** · 11-22-2002, 10:13 PM

It would be cool to get a large product comparison in this field with all large brands of MF in the comp..

How to test?

Take a wax pen(art supply store) and section off a body panel. Then take 1 mf towel per section and rub with same pressure (or as close as you can simulate the pressures) and see which one scratches the hardest. Tkae pics, and post the results.

If I was the tester, I would go to the junkyard and get a hood, buff it up and use it. By no means would I do this to my vehicle do to it being a TEST.

P.S. I might be able to do this in the spring after I am finished with the wax test I am currently doing. But by all means anyone can jump on the idea, or bash me for it. :-)