Level of effort summary for Zaino vs. Klasse vs. P21s, etc?

**roller5435** · 10-01-2002, 02:29 PM

I`m searching and reading as fast as I can. But can anybody provide a brief summary of level of effort required for each of these products? Something like number of steps and hours required?

I`m attracted to the Zaino/Klasse products for longer durability and protection, but am a bit intimidated by the number of steps required to treat the car. I`m now wondering if regular carnauba waxing every 2-3 months is not so bad?

I`m looking for some input like this:

Product XXX steps:

1. dawn wash

2. polish

3. glaze

4. wax

Estimated hours = 3

Err...something like that. Anyone?? :nixweiss

**Bobby G** · 10-01-2002, 03:05 PM

Can`t beat Klasse AIO for ease-of-use. Durability and finish are excellent.

Can`t beat Z (ZFX, Z5 + Z2) for durability and final finish. Application does take more effort.

So, I think it all depends on what you`re looking for. If you want the best finish with the least effort, Klasse AIO is my first pick. If you want showcar results and time/effort is not a factor, Z is the answer for many people.

If you want perfection... every car has a different solution set.

db

**janderson** · 10-01-2002, 03:06 PM

Well, lets see here . . .

1. Wheels (about 30 minutes only because they are 17" and very easy to clean . . . since they are so new)

2. Dawn (about 15 minutes)

3. Clay (+/- an hour, depending upon how dirty the car is)

4. Dawn again (15 minutes)

5. Klasse AIO (2-3 hours) depending upon how long you want to wait between coats. I normally let about 30 minutes to an hour between each coat. I normally go about 3XAIO

6. Klasse SG (2-3 hours). Again, this is cure time, not application time. The longer you wait, the deeper the shine. Zaino is the same way.

7. Blitz Wax (1 hour)

Once I am done, I EF Black Opal the wheels, and move to the interior (since I am the only one who ever really rides in the car, it is pretty clean inside).

I hope that this helps. In the end, you can really determine how long you will spend detailing. If I am doing a "full" detailing, it normally takes me a good part of a Saturday (8am to around 3pm). I always make sure to save a little daylight for at least one trip around the block for "show off time."

Best regards.

**Bobby G** · 10-01-2002, 05:18 PM

If you drink that much coffee you may slow your time due to frequnt trips to the bathroom.

**NattyBumppo** · 10-01-2002, 06:35 PM

Originally posted by Fireproof

I`m now wondering if regular carnauba waxing every 2-3 months is not so bad?

If you go the P21s route you`ll need to reapply more often than every 2-3 months....more like every 4-6 weeks at most. Using One Grand Showoff (or any good carnauba based qd) as a qd can help extend the P21s out to the 6 week area. It did for my non-garaged, dd. P21s is by far the easiest carnauba I`ve ever used and it produces striking results on a properly prepped finish (especially red and black). I can do my F150 extended cab with P21s in about 45 minutes working at a comfortable pace.

On my F150 (excluding covered bed):

wash/dry 40 minutes

spot clay 20 minutes

P21s GEPC or Meg`s #7 Show Car Glaze 45 minutes

P21s carnauba 45 minutes

This is all at a pretty comfortable pace. No need to rush something I love doing!

**mrdetailer** · 10-01-2002, 06:41 PM

Originally posted by Fireproof

I`m attracted to the Zaino/Klasse products for longer durability and protection, but am a bit intimidated by the number of steps required to treat the car. I`m now wondering if regular carnauba waxing every 2-3 months is not so bad?

If your signature is correct you have a black car. Definitely a challenge. While all products are good each has difficulties:

Zaino difficult to apply and may have to leave on for long periods. Great shine no depth. Excellent duarability attracts dust. Emphasizes swirls and scratches.

Klasse, All in One is easy to apply. Sealant Glaze must be applied carefully or it will haze. Some complain that it has a candy (silvery) finish. Quite often topped with Carnaubas to increase depth. Great durability 6- 9 months. Shows swirl marks

The newer class of polymer synthetic waxes like Blackfire and Platinum which mimic the look of a carnauba. Their durability is between carnaubas and acrylics. Generally lasts between 3 -- 6 months. They hide swirls just about as well as Carnaubas.

I`ve tried Blackfire about 3 weeks ago on my red Mazda and it looks fabulous. It really has the depth of Carnaubas. It was extremely easy to use, and I could put on multiple layers immediately. My treatment took over an hour. 2 layers of the cleaner, and 3 layers of the glaze. In a few weeks I`m going to top it with a Carnauba.

Carnaubas have the best depth, brilliance and clarity, but don`t last as long. I use them exclusively spring -- fall. And on the vertical surfaces year around. Inexpensive, very easy to apply. My current favorites are all Paste waxes (gentlest on the finish) 3M Perfect-It Show Car Wax, P21S, and Meguiars #26 in that order.

On a black car the problem with Carnaubas is the heat. Plan on waxing avery 4--6 weeks when very warm. The heat on dark cars evaporates the carnauba faster. Not a serious problem with lighter colored vehicles.

My personal call would be a Blackfire base then after at least 3 weeks to allow a full cure, topped with P21S, or 3M Perfect-It Show Car Paste to add more depth and briliance during the summer, and a pure Carnauba in cooler weather.

**roller5435** · 10-01-2002, 07:05 PM

Thanks for your detailed response. I think the info is all coming together for me now.

One thing in my searches I didn`t seem to notice is the fact that Zaino and Klasse tend to show swirl marks. But after reading some of the product info, and your response, I think that may be a concern for me - especially on my black car!!

So net net is that I don`t mind spending 3-4 hours detailing if I don`t have to do it every 4 weeks. But getting the 6-9 month durability may not be worth the swirls and lack of depth.

So maybe I should look into Blackfire and Platinum as you suggested for something in between. Any more information on these would be appreciated if you feel like posting. Otherwise, I`ll start searching on these.

Quickly though, on Blackfire:

1. will it go 2 months between waxings?

2. what is the recommended QD between waxings?

3. does it leave "white" residue in the crevices from the waxings? I hate that.

Thanks!

**PAW** · 10-01-2002, 08:14 PM

I did my first application of Zaino this past week. It wasn`t bad. Here were my steps

1 - Clayed the car several weeks ago. That took me 2 - 3 hours. It was my first claying also. I did the traditional method. Wash car, dry car, squit with a dulited car shampoo mix, clay, wipe down. My recommendation, wash the car, clay each section with suds on, have a spray bottle of dulited car shampoo/Dawn to keep it wet, hit it with the wash mitt again, rinse that section and move on to the next section

Actual Zaino session

1 - Dawn wash the car - 30 minutes to 1 hour

2 - Clay the wheels. They had too much brake dust

3 - Throughly dry the car. Blot with an Absorber, wipe with an MF towel, blow the water out with an electric leaf blowe, wipe up drops - 30 minutes

4 - Quick Detail with Z6 - 20 to 30 minutes

5 - Mix the Z5 and ZFX, about 3/4 to 1 oz, shake for a couple of minutes or until your hand falls off - 5 minutes

6 - Gather foam applicator, etc. 10 minutes

7 - Shake Z5/ZFX for anothe couple of minutes.

8 - Apply a coat of Z5/ZFX 20 to 30 minutes. It took a little while to figure out how much too apply. I think I was too thin at first and too thick in some places

9 - Allow to dry for 30 minutes while I ate lunch

10 - Buff it off with an MF towel. 20 minutes

11 - Quick Detail with Z6 20 minutes. I was faster this time

12 - Apply 2nd coat of Z5/ZFX. 20 minutes

13 - Allow to dry for 30 minutes. Read Autopia posts

14 - Buff off with an MF towel 20 minutes

15 - Go shopping with the wife and kids. 2 hours

16 - Mix some more Z5/ZFX. About 1/3 to 1/2 oz. Shake for 2 minutes

17 - Quick Detail with Z6 - 15 minutes

18 - Shake Z5/ZFX for another couple minutes

19 - Apply 3rd coat of Z5/ZFX 20 minutes. Ran out and applied some straight Z5.

20 - Allow to dry 30 - 60 minutes. A rain shower came through

21 - Buff off with an MF towel 20 minutes.

22 - Had dinner

I also Zed my wheels 3 times and the front windshield.

Total Z time, not counting waiting time, 4 hours 7 minutes. An afternoon well spent.

I`m guessing I can wash, dry and apply another coat in 2 hours.

**PGA2B** · 10-01-2002, 08:39 PM

I did the same thing as PAW except I had to remove a lot of water etching and swirls, had to do it by hand so it took a lot longer.

From what i`ve read, Zaino application takes longer for initial prep but the next time you do it all u have to do is wash, apply Z5/Z2 and Z6.

**shaf** · 10-01-2002, 11:57 PM

I beg to differ on the issue of (Klasse anyway) highlighting swirls. Now, it may be that they are referring to moderate swirls, but I feel that very noticable swirls like that should be polished out anyway. Then Klasse SG will fill in and hide any minor swirls left behind that you missed, hence the name "sealant glaze".

I think Klasse may be the most time-consuming process of them all really, especially if you give in to the "24 hr cure rule" and how fastidious you sometimes need to be with application/removal. Zaino with ZFX is probably one of the fastest systems. That said, you only have to perform this ritual twice a year at the most.

**Green Max** · 10-02-2002, 01:17 AM

I have to disagree with mrdetailer`s rating of the waxes. In my experience, 3M Show car wax is difficult to remove and doesn`t last very long but it does produce a nice glossy shine. #26 probably lasts the longest of the three and has a great shine and depth. However, S100 seems to have the best shine and is the easiest to apply. I would rate them in this order: S100, #26 and 3M Show Car paste.

**CharlesW** · 10-02-2002, 03:29 AM

Originally posted by Green Max

I have to disagree with mrdetailer`s rating of the waxes. In my experience, 3M Show car wax is difficult to remove and doesn`t last very long but it does produce a nice glossy shine.

Nver used #26, but 3M Paste and S100 seemed to be about the same for ease of use and initial appearance. 3M was no problem for me to apply or remove at all and since I usually was at least every 60 days, durability was never an issue. I started using S100 because of all the raves on Autopia. It too, is very easy to use and looks great.

Charles

**NattyBumppo** · 10-02-2002, 06:59 AM

Originally posted by Fireproof

So maybe I should look into Blackfire and Platinum as you suggested for something in between. Any more information on these would be appreciated if you feel like posting. Otherwise, I`ll start searching on these.

Personally, I love Platinum. I`ve had it on my truck now for about 1 1/2 months with the third and final coat being about 3 weeks old. It is still beading like crazy, shines like the dickens (even after this last week with no wash or qd), is extremely slick and as others mentioned actually has somewhat of a carnauba like depth/warmth to it. If you`ve seached at all on Platinum here you`ll find a bunch of opinions and experiences...some good, some so-so and some not so good. Thus far, my Platinum experience has been quite good. I used 2 coats of AIO as a base for the Platinum UPP then over the course of about two weeks got 3 coats of UPP on and I am extremely satisfied with the product. It is also extremely easy to use, as easy as P21s, so adding another coat now and then is a breeze.

I will agree that it doesn`t hide or do much to mask swirls but then if your car is new and silver, it probably won`t matter. One last thing, 4-Star is working on another formula change to Platinum UPP and I had the chance to try it out last weekend on a 2000 maroon metallic explorer and was impressed. The owner of the Xplorer is very happy. The new recipe is even more slick than the last version, has the same great gloss and is supposed to have a substantially higher polymer content than the last. Not sure when they are going to be releasing it but it should be soon.

Maybe Tim could offer some more info on the new version.

**MikeLS** · 10-02-2002, 08:11 AM

Originally posted by mrdetailer

Zaino difficult to apply and may have to leave on for long periods. Great shine no depth. Excellent duarability attracts dust. Emphasizes swirls and scratches.

I must ask if you have used Zaino before? It`s not difficult to apply or remove, especially with ZFX, mine doesn`t attract much if any dust, and if you saw my car in person (which is red) I think you`d agree that the depth is pretty amazing, especially on the long, low hood. Frankly, I`m amazed at the depth and clarity of reflections on the car. Your statements sound too generalized to me, like things you`ve "heard" but not experienced. Maybe I`m wrong....

**imported_Intermezzo** · 10-02-2002, 10:09 AM

Originally posted by mrdetailer

Zaino difficult to apply and may have to leave on for long periods. Great shine no depth.

Sealant Glaze must be applied carefully......... Shows swirl marks

I`m with Mike on this one. Zaino is not difficut at all to apply or buff. And depth of shine is excellent. I do feel, however that it has a tendency to highlight surface imperfections.

Also, in my experience, Klasse SG does an excellent job of filling minor swirls.....every bit as good as a carnauba wax.