Swirl Marks - 3M Perfect it Paste Rubbing Compound

**MTO44** · 08-26-2002, 02:12 PM

Would like your opinion on this Recipe for removing swirl marks and minor scratches on a less than one year old clear coat.

1) use PC 7336SP with a white polishing pad.

2) buff 2` by 2` foot sections with 3M perfect it Paste Rubbing Compound Fine Cut (1200 grade) for no more than 30 seconds on each section in various directions (don`t push down, let weight of PC work in the compound), speed no greater than 2. Wipe off with micro fiber towel.

3) Buff out haze made by compound with Meguiars No 3 Machine Polish using PC and another white polishing pad. After this process you should not see any swirls and your finish should look great.

4) follow up with 3MIHG and Soverign Wax. Car should look great???

OK Autopia experts, let me know what you think. Will this work? If not, why? Main goal is to get rid of these minor swirls that I can only see in the brightest of lighting and most importantly, not do more harm to my paint...:xyxthumbs

**vroddad** · 08-26-2002, 05:08 PM

Sounds a bit much for "swirls"... unless they are actually scratches. What you got there is a way to bring back rather abused paint.

Also, you`re up there on product agressiveness, but you`re still using a polishing pad. I`d use some sort of cutting pad (CMA Yellow, or stronger... perhaps a 3M Waffle). Also, I`m not sure what 3M compound you`re using, but when I used 3M FCRC it didn`t leave any haze.

**MTO44** · 08-26-2002, 05:22 PM

I agree it does sound aggressive but a person on the phone at CMA said the combo worked great. The swirls would be gone. So I purchased the Perfect-it Paste Rubbing compound Fine Cut. I have not used it. I can always send it back. Thought I would throw the question out there to the auto-pia experts like yourself, NY detailer, David B. and others and see if the recipe was one that would work or be a recipe for disaster. Hopefully people like yourself will respond and help me out. :nixweiss

**Thunderingbird** · 08-26-2002, 06:37 PM

I tried to do the exact same thing you are wanting to do. I ordered the PC and all the pads and ended up buying the following products Megs Scratch-X, 3M SMR, 3M Finesse it II, and 3M Fine cut rubbing compound. I started out with 3M SMR and tried every speed on the PC, didnt even touch it. Then I tried the 3M Finesse it II with the same results. Next I try the Scratch-X still NOTHING! Now I break out the 3M fine cut rubbing compound, after working it for about 45 minutes you could tell that it barely is starting to do something. Keep in mind that I have tried every speed on the PC with each of these products and the marks are not going away, I spent a total of 9.5 hours that day foolin with the PC and all of these products only to have shinnier swirl marks. I just broke out the Dewalt rotary buffer with 3M Finesse it II and 5 minutes later they were gone!

**MTO44** · 08-27-2002, 01:02 AM

Well that sucks. So what you are saying is the rubbing compound did help out very little but you still needed a rotary to really work them out. There has to be a formula out there that works with a pc at removing Swirl marks. I need to hear success stories. If anyone has them, please share. From what I heard, 3MSMR is really only a filler, you need some abbrasive to correct the swirl mark problem. Can you damage your paint with my system - PC and compound fine cut and then Machine Polish 3 to shine up work, or like you said, just have shinnier swirls. Please help.

**vroddad** · 08-27-2002, 01:47 AM

Well that`s it, I`ve got to get a rotary.

**Bing999** · 08-27-2002, 01:59 PM

I`m no expert by any stretch, but this has worked well for me.

I`ve got a lot (and I mean alot) of fine scratches in the clear coat of my F150 as well as the really fine, circular scratches (marring maybe?) from washing. I don`t really have the "swirls" that are caused by buffer use.

I used the PC in the following ways:

1. White pad that came with the PC and FI II - not much success.

2. Yellow cutting pad (Buffmaster) from local paint shop and FI II - removed some of the fine scratches, but didn`t touch the washing marks.

3. Yellow cutting pad (Buffmaster) and Perfect It II RC - very good success removing the fine scratches and removed most of the washing marks. Any leftover marks were just not visible enough to warrant taking more clear coat off.

Now, that said, PI II RC is more than abrasive enough to cause actual "swirling marks" in the finish so:

1. light swirled areas get Meguiars #9 SMR in a straight line, front to back by hand.

2. other areas get FI II with PC and polishing pad (lightly) and then the Meguiars #9 SMR front to back by hand.

This is not regular maintenance work for me, the previous owner marked it up pretty good and it needed some TLC. I wouldn`t subject the finish to this on a regular basis, practice good washing and hopefully all you need is some minor work with SMR or FI II in the future.

My final step is a few coats of Klasse.

Hope this helps.

Darcy

**ClayBartrug** · 08-27-2002, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by Thunderingbird

I tried to do the exact same thing you are wanting to do. I ordered the PC and all the pads and ended up buying the following products Megs Scratch-X, 3M SMR, 3M Finesse it II, and 3M Fine cut rubbing compound. I started out with 3M SMR and tried every speed on the PC, didnt even touch it. Then I tried the 3M Finesse it II with the same results. Next I try the Scratch-X still NOTHING! Now I break out the 3M fine cut rubbing compound, after working it for about 45 minutes you could tell that it barely is starting to do something. Keep in mind that I have tried every speed on the PC with each of these products and the marks are not going away, I spent a total of 9.5 hours that day foolin with the PC and all of these products only to have shinnier swirl marks. I just broke out the Dewalt rotary buffer with 3M Finesse it II and 5 minutes later they were gone!

Wow, you`ve just rendered the PC entirely USELESS... Countless numbers of people from this forum have great success with it...I hate to break it to you, but you`re obviously doing something wrong.

I agree with what someone said above, you`re using a very aggressive product with a polishing pad, doesn`t seem to make sense. I had great success this weekend with 3M FI-II with a yellow cutting pad...on speed 6, with moderate pressure. Took out swirls and some fine surface scratches! And I only spent ONE hour on my trunk and roof!!! Worked for me!:nixweiss

**MTO44** · 08-27-2002, 03:23 PM

Is the Yellow cutting pad from the CMA kit safe on newer cars with light swirls? What is more aggressive, 3M Perfect II Fine cut Rubbing compound or Finesse it II? How aggressive is the Meg Dual Action cleaner polish some people on this site have recommended for taking out swirls? Which 3M product is comparable to this dual action polish? Thank you everyone for helping me with my decision which is getting more and more confusing as time goes by.:scared

**Bing999** · 08-27-2002, 06:02 PM

FI II is a finishing compound so it should be less agressive then the FCRC. Rub each one on your fingers and see which feels more gritty, I`m pretty sure it will be the FCRC.

While I don`t own one, the yellow foam pad should be fine for Clear coat, I think clear coat was one of the main "drivers" behind foam pads becoming so popular.

I can`t help you with the DACP, but just about everything I read about it is positive.

Can`t help you for a 3M product comparable to the Meg`s.

Darcy

**Thunderingbird** · 08-27-2002, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by Chris S

Wow, you`ve just rendered the PC entirely USELESS... Countless numbers of people from this forum have great success with it...I hate to break it to you, but you`re obviously doing something wrong.

I agree with what someone said above, you`re using a very aggressive product with a polishing pad, doesn`t seem to make sense. I had great success this weekend with 3M FI-II with a yellow cutting pad...on speed 6, with moderate pressure. Took out swirls and some fine surface scratches! And I only spent ONE hour on my trunk and roof!!! Worked for me!:nixweiss

Well Chris for me the PC is entirely useless! I cut my teeth on a rotary some 23 years ago so I`m not scared of it. I bought the PC because of all the high praises of it on this site. Chris I assure you I`m not new to this and I do know how to use the products properly. I used cutting pads with all the products. The only time I got any results period was with the fine cut rubbing compound the PC on speed 6 and putting ALOT of pressure on the PC, and still it took 45 minutes to get the marks shinier on half the hood! Dont get me wrong the PC may be good for someone that is affraid of a rotary or does`nt want to do anything other than apply light polish`s and wax`s to mostly perfect finish`s. However it cannot even begin to hang with a rotary when trying to remove imperfections in paint. I dont know maybe I have some type of new hybrid paint that is composed mostly of steel,but I was VERY dissapointed with the PC`s performance considering all the raves and claims that I read on this site.:nixweiss

**Thunderingbird** · 08-27-2002, 08:00 PM

Originally posted by MTO44

Well that sucks. So what you are saying is the rubbing compound did help out very little but you still needed a rotary to really work them out. There has to be a formula out there that works with a pc at removing Swirl marks. I need to hear success stories. If anyone has them, please share. From what I heard, 3MSMR is really only a filler, you need some abbrasive to correct the swirl mark problem. Can you damage your paint with my system - PC and compound fine cut and then Machine Polish 3 to shine up work, or like you said, just have shinnier swirls. Please help.

Well from what I`ve seen about the only way your going to hurt the finnish on your car with a PC is to take the PC and beat the daylights out of your car with it! Like I said before I got NO results until I used fine cut rubbing compound and by then I was so mad I was trying to burn the paint off[I`m NOT kidding]and only then it barely made any difference! The PC just DOES NOT create the friction or the heat needed to remove scratch`s or swirls. Save yourself some money and buy a rotary, learn how to use it and you will be way ahead of anybody using only a PC.

**corvettez** · 08-28-2002, 06:44 AM

I`ve had good results with the CMA yellow pad and the 3M FCRC as the first pass using the PC as well as Pi lll and the yellow pad. I`ve had good results with 3M SMR and the yellow pad as both a secondary pass and as a final pass before sealing. The maroon and pink Meg`s pads work good and are easily interchangeable with CMA`s during a detailing session using the PC. In MTO44`s case that might work just fine, ( the FCRC I`ve thought from time to time could be used as just a step above a general polish using the right pad) but for less than a year old car you might want to tone down the level of abrasiveness a bit and step it up on the pad. Try it both ways and see which yields the best results. I polished by hand for years until last year when I bought the Porter Cable, I wish I had bought it years ago. If the correct combination of PC, pad and polish isnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t working then you might want to look at your technique. Seems to me there is a wide range of technique possible with the PC and some may get disheartened when they get less results than what they expected right away. I think SMR has minor filling properties at most and Pi lll claims to be filler free and I believe it is from my experience but it does powder up quite a bit. IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m looking forward to trying the MegÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s DACP that seems to working well for some, I read some where here that it doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t leave a lot of powdery residue.

**MTO44** · 08-28-2002, 07:46 AM

Let me try and understand what V85097 and Thunderingbird just wrote. Even though the 3m PERFECT IT Paste RC (Fine cut) is up on the abbrasive scale, it is a product that will work with my PC and I should get the results (Swirls be gone) out of my hood and trunk. Per Thunderingbird, there is no way I can damage the clearcoat with the rubbing compound and my pc unless I throw the PC against the hood. V85097, Ford Guy and Chris S (happy PC users) if I use the white polishing pad with the fine cut rubbing compound and then follow up with the Meg No. 3 polish to take any haze out, should that work. Or should I def use the yellow pad with the rubbing compound, then the white pad with the polish. The guy at CMA said to use the white pad with the Rubbing compound. Do I need to throw a step in with the 3M Swirl remover or would that be overkill. Still somewhat confused. Why can`t they put paint and clearcoats on cars that don`t swirl or scratch. Thanks everyone for the helpful advice.:nixweiss

**corvettez** · 08-28-2002, 08:08 AM

The FCRC will certainly work with the PC and you can put it on any pad you like. How effective the FC and the white CMA pad will be will depend on variables such as the cars paint and condition, the pressure you apply and how long you work it for etc...The FC and yellow pad will be stepping up the overall abrasiveness for sure. From the sound of your paint`s condition and being newer to the PC, you should experiment in the area of low abrasiveness to begin with. Try the SMR with the white pad to begin with, you may not have much of an impact with it but it will help you get a feel for the machine.