Cleaning ceramic brake dust off of rotors and pads

**emaxxman** · 02-05-2010, 08:45 AM

I have ceramic brakes on my minivan and they dust a lot! I can clean them off of the rims pretty well with various cleaners and brushes. The problem I have is that the rotors accumulate enough to create a grinding sound when the brakes are applied. My mechanic will clean them off for free (usually ask him to do it when I get an oil change) but it`s a pain to constantly take the van into his shop.

What can I use to clean the rotors/pads w/o damaging the rims and safety of the brake system? I`ve heard of brake cleaner but not sure exactly how it is meant to be used. Do you just spray it on the rotor/pad assembly and then rinse?

I assume I`ll have to reapply any wheel dressing (Klasse AIO/SG for now).

**15951** · 02-05-2010, 11:31 AM

Are you sure they`re ceramic? I`m asking because mine are as well, and they hardly dust at all. In fact, that`s one of the benefits of ceramic brakes.

It`s odd that your rotors would accumulate dust - it shouldn`t happen, as you`re constantly removing contaminants from the rotors when you brake. Are you saying the pads are leaving deposits on the rotors that cannot be easily removed? If so, it sounds like your brake pads are of poor quality.

**emaxxman** · 02-05-2010, 12:09 PM

They are ceramic but I have no idea about the quality. My mechanic put them on. Mechanic will blow them out and buff the rotors at each oil change. They stay nice and quiet for awhile and then they get noisy again. To be honest, I`m starting to reconsider taking it to him for brake work.

**Setec Astronomy** · 02-05-2010, 12:20 PM

Something is very wrong with that brake job!

**emaxxman** · 02-05-2010, 05:26 PM

I will definitely question him again. He`s not a hack mechanic. He comes very highly recommended by many people I trust and many very knowledgeable car guys in town. He`s always been very truthful (eg tells me if certain things are required, good to haves, or just a plain waste of money).

I googled ceramic pads and I noticed that ceramic pads, being harder, can wear the rotors down faster. I had the rotors replaced with the pads so I`m hoping that they are compatible. I wonder if it`s rotor dust and not pad dust?

**jDizzle** · 02-05-2010, 06:58 PM

i honestly dont know where to start with this. Brake dust building up on your rotors? as someone else already said , whenever you apply the brakes the pads are pressed against the rotors. and ceramic is indeed harder than some other materials brake pads are made of, so they will wear out your rotors faster, but most cars now a days use ceramic pads from the factory. so i wouldnt worry about that. ceramics are generally quieter, last longer, and dust less. dust cant accumulate on your rotors.. and if the tech tells you brake dust is causing your noise problem. hes full of it. I have never heard of someone trying to tell someone that brake dust was causing a noise issue. .. what type of noise is it? by the way. if you were refering to putting a sealant or wax on your rotors. do not do that. the brake cleaner spray you were refering to (unless your talking about a wheel cleaner which is just supposed to remove dirt and brake dust etc) is called brake clean. and its what you use to get brake dust off before you service them so you dont inhale the dust because it can be hazardous to your health. sorry this post is so long winded. hope it helps.

**15951** · 02-05-2010, 07:09 PM

There`s a possibility they used the wrong brake shim with the pads, which could cause some of that grinding/squealing. I`m guessing he`s putting a little grease on them each time you go in for an oil change, which temporarily quiets the problem.

SWAG, but that`s the best I can come up with.

**jDizzle** · 02-05-2010, 07:16 PM

brakes can make a few sounds. most commonly squeaks. which many pads are deqigned to do to let the driver know that its time to replace brake pads. if the pads arent worn out. the noise could also be from not having disc quiet (like this)

on back of the pads (not the side that touches the rotor). glazed rotors that arent resurfaced, and just have new pads slapped on them an also make noises. even properly resurfaced rotors with brand new pads can make noise if the teh didnt give it a non directional finnish when finnished.

**Deanski** · 02-05-2010, 08:05 PM

They are not true ceramic brakes. Ceramic brakes pertain to the rotor, not the pad.

I should know as I have them on my Porsche and they are not a cheap option when you order (spec) your car.

What you have are pads that have a ceramic mix in the pad and a steel rotor.

If you had true ceramic brakes, there would be no dust unless you track it and even then it`s minimal.

Quite a few pad mfg`s are using the "ceramic" buzzword to get you to purchase a set of pads. If the pads were full ceramic, you would not stop very well unless they were warm/hot enough.

As for cleaning, always start with mild and work up. P21S wheel cleaner is the first step, then work up from there.

Regards,

Deanski

**getcha** · 02-05-2010, 08:33 PM

Another thing to consider, if its the noise that bothers you is the bed in procedure.

If you did not do a proper bed in procedure, where you eventually have enough pad material on the rotor, your braking can be quite loud.

Typically a thorough bedding process transfers enough pad material to significantly quiet many brakes down.

**emaxxman** · 02-06-2010, 09:34 AM

Firstly, thanks all for your comments.

The pads and rotors have no more than 10K (probably closer to 5K - I don`t remember) on them for sure. It`s a Honda Odyssey minivan so I know there were no ceramic pads or rotors on it new.

The comment regarding a ceramic mix pad with a steel rotor sounds right. He did not put on ceramic rotors.

The bed in procedure comment is interesting. I had ceramic pads with a steel rotor put on my Accord. I used to drive on NJ Rt. 80 in rush hour and had constant issues with warped rotors (Honda or aftermarket). When my mechanic switched over ceramic pads, the warped issue went away but I then had the noise during braking. It did go away after time. I`m noticing that for the van, the noise isn`t as bad as it was in the beginning so maybe that is it.

**nygoat03** · 02-07-2010, 07:54 AM

why would u need ceramic pads on a van?? I did a "proper" bed in procedure on my GTO when I went with EBC pads and slotted rotors-and i dont always think it makes the biggest difference. What about the thousands of new cars that get driven off lots without being bed in??

**focus2069** · 02-07-2010, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by nygoat03

why would u need ceramic pads on a van?? I did a "proper" bed in procedure on my GTO when I went with EBC pads and slotted rotors-and i dont always think it makes the biggest difference. What about the thousands of new cars that get driven off lots without being bed in??

your EBC pads and slotted rotors are "performance" brakes, not "off the dealer lot" brakes. They do require proper bedding to perform at their best.

To the OP, ceramic brake pads are not supposed to dust that bad. Your mechanic put semi-metallic pads on (which are still fine, they just dust more and make more noise, but are cheaper than ceramic pads)

Get new pads (wagner thermo quiet laser cut, or duralast c-max, are what we use in our shop) and resurface the rotors to get rid of the dust.

To the Porsche owner, your brakes are carbon-composite most likely...which is not even an option on most cars under 75 grand.

**Accumulator** · 02-07-2010, 11:31 AM

Not sure if this is worth posting, but...

I have similar issues with my Mazda MPV, and it was simply *awful* with the oe pads. Noise and that "warped rotor" effect of vibration under braking. I used the scare-quotes at it was really deposits on the rotor rather than actual warpage (StopTech`s website used to have some great info on this, maybe it still does). Refacing the rotors would only effect a very temporary fix.

And yeah, the pads were always properly broken in, using the same long, drawn-out process I use on my performance cars. It helped, but the problem *always* came back.

Last time I replaced the pads and rotors (which was a fairly frequent occurence because the problem was so terrible), I not only had the rotors cryo`ed and plated, but I also went with aftermarket pads (Hawks IIRC). The cryo treatment was just a "why not?" idea (and the heat-sensitive paint marks show they`re not getting all that hot), but it has worked well on some of my serious cars. The pads were the big thing, and they not only dramatically improved the stopping distance, but they also improved the deposit-related vibration and they`re a lot quieter. The vibration problem *did* eventually recur, but it took thousands of miles and it`s not *nearly* as bad as it always was with the oe pads; it`s something we can now live with. The aftermarket pads do dust something awful though, worst brake dust I`ve ever experienced by a long shot.

Why put good pads on a minivan? I`d ask "why not try for the best possible brake performance on *any* vehicle?" :nixweiss My MPV is so under-engineered for serious driving that it needs all the help it can get.

**emaxxman** · 02-07-2010, 02:00 PM

I put the ceramic pads on the van because, based on my experience with the ceramic pads on my Accord, they last longer and the rotor warping went away completely. Based on what I`ve read on the various Honda forums, Honda brand or Honda spec rotors are notorious for warping. I was replacing the rotors/pads on my Accord every year for 3 years straight before I switched to the ceramics.

My wife drives locally only so there is a lot of stop and go braking in the van. Heck, the front pads were replaced under a Honda recall but they only replaced the pads and cut the rotors. The rotors are warped and vibrate if I have to brake hard at 70mph`s. Once it starts to vibrate at lower speeds or brake pressure, I`ll replace them as well.