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  1. #16

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    Re: Big price increases coming in near future

    Klaus Schwab of the world economic forum already had a big conference during the height of the plandemic talking about the next big crisis. Guess what it was? Cyber attacks, be it on the electrical grid, financial system etc

    If i were i betting man, there is a high chance the next world "crisis" with be cyber attack maybe from Russia - A Russian software company is one of the leading players of some kind of task force they set up to counter the "threat" - on some country in the so called "west". And it won`t be a bunch of saudi`s living in caves.

  2. #17

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    Re: Big price increases coming in near future

    Quote Originally Posted by Stokdgs View Post
    Regarding the Colonial Pipeline (Thanks Lonnie) hack, does anyone here work or has worked on one of these big pipelines ???

    Will you please when you have time, tell me how something that is round, has lots of valves to open and close, divert product/s here to there, can be actually attacked by a small low voltage signal, and now be rendered unable to operate, please???

    I still think of it as huge system of pipes that have "open and close valves", that had to be operated by hand for hundreds of years before the internet was even an idea.

    So, if you have a pipeline, and it has a lot of valves that can be opened and closed to move product in and out, how could you not revert to doing it manually again, and just disconnect those pesky internet connections, that somehow disabled your big pipeline??? Did Colonial not ever think about this and have the normal Disaster Recovery Plan in their Binders???

    Does not every big company still Back Up all their Files regularly and store them all offsite, so they can be recovered and loaded back up in the event of a Disaster Recovery???

    Does America not have our own Hackers, perhaps teams of Hackers that can go out and undo what other Hackers did to our Operating Systems, etc., ???

    Can`t we just trace their IP addresses no matter how many places they went with them to get to our pipeline, and send something back to them to disable them or better yet, send some big guys over to slap them silly and make them cry and promise to never do it again ??

    Sadly, I saw today that the Keystone Pipeline that some dilbert stopped the work on, is going, going, gone...
    Sorry Canada.. Sorry, America.. And especially sorry to those thousands of people who had work or had business that were related to this project that are now all out of a job..

    Dan F
    The issue is related to valves and instrumentation. Their valves usually have on them something called a PLC or Programmable Logic Controller. This is how most industries have controlled their industrial components for decades. Now think of the proliferation of smart locks, thermostats, lights, etc, etc in the home, which is often referred to as the Internet of Things (IoT). Well where do you think security was when all these companies, and there were a ton, were trying to quickly enter the IoT market? Well, unfortunately about the same thing happened on the industrial side where they started hooking up these PLCs to the network or Internet. Not enough thought put into security and that is why we have pipelines and electrical grids vulnerable to hacking. And they will be for a while until they can properly add security, which includes training people to stop being a contributor to the problem, such as clicking on something they shouldn’t or giving/improperly storing information they shouldn’t.
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  3. #18
    dansautodetailing.com Stokdgs's Avatar
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    Re: Big price increases coming in near future

    Quote Originally Posted by dgage View Post
    The issue is related to valves and instrumentation. Their valves usually have on them something called a PLC or Programmable Logic Controller. This is how most industries have controlled their industrial components for decades. Now think of the proliferation of smart locks, thermostats, lights, etc, etc in the home, which is often referred to as the Internet of Things (IoT). Well where do you think security was when all these companies, and there were a ton, were trying to quickly enter the IoT market? Well, unfortunately about the same thing happened on the industrial side where they started hooking up these PLCs to the network or Internet. Not enough thought put into security and that is why we have pipelines and electrical grids vulnerable to hacking. And they will be for a while until they can properly add security, which includes training people to stop being a contributor to the problem, such as clicking on something they shouldn’t or giving/improperly storing information they shouldn’t.

    dgage - thanks for the explanation, I learned a lot about this..

    Now, regarding Disaster Recovery, which I happen to know a lot about, do these people with pipelines not know how to address their pipeline operation in the event of say, massive electrical grid failure??? No one, well, actually teams of people can not go out to Their part of the pipeline and Manually operate it???

    It still is a pipeline, right?? People operated pipelines and dam gates for over 100 years without the internet, can we not just go turn the dang valves to open and let that product go through them?? It still is a pipeline, right ?

    If there is no solution to this, I am just amazed how this entire pipeline infrastructure ever got built without 1 person thinking, "hey, shouldn`t we remember how to operate this Manually, in the event of a power failure ????(long before the internet was invented) No one thought about that??? Ever???

    Thinking about the Internet access, does using only VPN not work anymore??? We were using VPN`s at Verizon over 20 years ago.. We never got hacked either..
    Or, cannot the IT team just limit access to only certain things coming And going, to help slow down those pesky little evil bugs that come in with something that looks normal but isn`t?? There are no Firewalls that really are Firewalls??

    No one today can write a little program that flags things that go out, or come in, that are on a list of dangerous places to be, and block them before they do damage?

    Our people at Verizon put limits on access to things for everyone... You were just not going to get to go to that place... It was dangerous... We even had the first design of Lotus Notes, long before Microsoft Outlook came out with their beautiful email version, in the middle 90`s..

    Ok, I have to go outside, this is making me crazy..

    Thanks again for your time and help, dgage !
    Dan F
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  4. #19
    bob m's Avatar
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    Re: Big price increases coming in near future

    Quote Originally Posted by noorth View Post
    Klaus Schwab of the world economic forum already had a big conference during the height of the plandemic talking about the next big crisis. Guess what it was? Cyber attacks, be it on the electrical grid, financial system etc

    If i were i betting man, there is a high chance the next world "crisis" with be cyber attack maybe from Russia - A Russian software company is one of the leading players of some kind of task force they set up to counter the "threat" - on some country in the so called "west". And it won`t be a bunch of saudi`s living in caves.
    Cyberattacks on the USA infrastructure. Is that really so prescient? A blind man could see this coming from years ago. Ted Koppel had a book out in 2015 called Lights Out, about just such a thing.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngkt6PVvc04

    Yes, I`m sure he was not the first, but I am also pretty sure we have not taken this threat seriously enough. We seem not to heed the warnings we should be heeding.
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  5. #20

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    Re: Big price increases coming in near future

    Bob, Who are you referring to when you say "we".

  6. #21
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    Re: Big price increases coming in near future

    Quote Originally Posted by Stokdgs View Post
    dgage - thanks for the explanation, I learned a lot about this..

    Now, regarding Disaster Recovery, which I happen to know a lot about, do these people with pipelines not know how to address their pipeline operation in the event of say, massive electrical grid failure??? No one, well, actually teams of people can not go out to Their part of the pipeline and Manually operate it???

    It still is a pipeline, right?? People operated pipelines and dam gates for over 100 years without the internet, can we not just go turn the dang valves to open and let that product go through them?? It still is a pipeline, right ?

    If there is no solution to this, I am just amazed how this entire pipeline infrastructure ever got built without 1 person thinking, "hey, shouldn`t we remember how to operate this Manually, in the event of a power failure ????(long before the internet was invented) No one thought about that??? Ever???

    Thinking about the Internet access, does using only VPN not work anymore??? We were using VPN`s at Verizon over 20 years ago.. We never got hacked either..
    Or, cannot the IT team just limit access to only certain things coming And going, to help slow down those pesky little evil bugs that come in with something that looks normal but isn`t?? There are no Firewalls that really are Firewalls??

    No one today can write a little program that flags things that go out, or come in, that are on a list of dangerous places to be, and block them before they do damage?

    Our people at Verizon put limits on access to things for everyone... You were just not going to get to go to that place... It was dangerous... We even had the first design of Lotus Notes, long before Microsoft Outlook came out with their beautiful email version, in the middle 90`s..

    Ok, I have to go outside, this is making me crazy..

    Thanks again for your time and help, dgage !
    Dan F
    I completely agree with every doubt you have! Ill say it much shorter and sweeter. I THINK ITS BS and they do have those safeties in place THEY ARE JUST FULL OF CRAP AND TRYING TO MAKE THE US PANIC WHEN THEY RAISE PRICES. Thats all I have to say on that
    Don

    1989 Formula 350
    2004 Saturn Ion Quadcoupe
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  7. #22
    bob m's Avatar
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    Re: Big price increases coming in near future

    Quote Originally Posted by noorth View Post
    Bob, Who are you referring to when you say "we".
    The government as well as the companies. And I don`t think WE are the only country ill prepared.
    Likes noorth liked this post

  8. #23
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    Re: Big price increases coming in near future

    Quote Originally Posted by dgage View Post
    The issue is related to valves and instrumentation. Their valves usually have on them something called a PLC or Programmable Logic Controller. This is how most industries have controlled their industrial components for decades. Now think of the proliferation of smart locks, thermostats, lights, etc, etc in the home, which is often referred to as the Internet of Things (IoT). Well where do you think security was when all these companies, and there were a ton, were trying to quickly enter the IoT market? Well, unfortunately about the same thing happened on the industrial side where they started hooking up these PLCs to the network or Internet. Not enough thought put into security and that is why we have pipelines and electrical grids vulnerable to hacking. And they will be for a while until they can properly add security, which includes training people to stop being a contributor to the problem, such as clicking on something they shouldn’t or giving/improperly storing information they shouldn’t.
    I clicked the dislike by mistake.
    Likes dgage liked this post

  9. #24

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    Re: Big price increases coming in near future

    Quote Originally Posted by Older View Post
    I clicked the dislike by mistake.
    Come on man! How could you? I`ve never done that accidentally multiple times with no way to walk it back.
    Likes Cadfael liked this post

  10. #25

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    Re: Big price increases coming in near future

    Well, enough about economics, politics, and cyber attacks/hacks, BACK to the topic about price increases on detailing and car-care products.:
    I asked this question during the pandemic:
    Have any of you experienced product shortages or unavailability of detailing equipment or products in orders you recently places through car-care equipment and product re-sellers/distributors/dealers, whether over-the-counter or through the Internet?
    AND, how has that affected your vehicle detailing business or hobby??

    I want to give my sincere "Thanks" to Ron Ketcham for his heads-up information on this price increase. I know Ron has a lot of acquaintances and associates in the car-care manufacturing sector that he has made in working within that sector over the years. I trust his information because he trusts his sources and this is not some "fake news" item to get us Autopians to panic and stock up on car-care products and and related items.

    Although this information does not bode well for me personally because I NEED to buy my "large every-other-year stash" of car-care products that I am totally out of and have procrastinated about ordering to continue my vehicle OCD detailing hobby.
    Another title for Captain Obvious: Procrastinator! I know, "Time is of the essence." "The early bird gets the worm." "Put off today what you can do tomorrow" Wait (pun intended!), how did that last one get in here? Oh ya, that`s MY saying.
    GB detailer

  11. #26

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    Re: Big price increases coming in near future

    Regarding inflation rates, we haven`t had a yearly average inflation rate over 10% since 1981, and it`s never been above 5% since 1982, except in 1990, when it was 5.4. Since 2000 it`s never been above 4%, and was even negative in 2009. So...after we got over the crushing inflation of the late 70`s (13.5% in 1980), inflation has been pretty stable and low, through a lot of different administrations and policies. IMO what we`re seeing now is supply/demand issues related to the pandemic. https://www.usinflationcalculator.co...flation-rates/

    As far as the pipeline, are we sure that it was actually the automation that was sabotaged? I see a lot of speculation here that the operator was unable to operate the system, but I have heard no evidence of that. Is it possible the operator was afraid to operate it (as opposed to being unable to operate it) for fear that malicious software had been installed which would provided false feedback to the system operators? Remember in the Stuxnet attack on the Iranian centrifuges, the centrifuges were overspeeded while their instruments showed the RPM within normal parameters. Perhaps in this case the pipeline operator was afraid they would press the button and everything would look normal on their screens, while in reality a dump valve was open somewhere pumping into someone`s back yard. Remember this pipeline is 1500 miles long and probably took many years to build and troubleshoot.
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  12. #27

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    Re: Big price increases coming in near future

    Quote Originally Posted by bob m View Post
    Cyberattacks on the USA infrastructure. Is that really so prescient? A blind man could see this coming from years ago. Ted Koppel had a book out in 2015 called Lights Out, about just such a thing.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngkt6PVvc04

    Yes, I`m sure he was not the first, but I am also pretty sure we have not taken this threat seriously enough. We seem not to heed the warnings we should be heeding.
    I`ve worked in the government IT space for over 20 years in various capacities and the idea of cyber attacks against critical infrastructure has been a topic of concern in some corners of government and industry the entire time. It`s only hit the public`s attention because the attack directly effected millions of private citizens across a dozen states. Even ransomware isn`t anything new. It`s been a threat vector for almost a decade.

    Quote Originally Posted by bob m View Post
    And I don`t think WE are the only country ill prepared.
    Agree, but I don`t know if there are any easy answers. The problem is pretty complex at many levels and there is always the human element of complacency or error.

    The best defense is companies taking their IT security seriously and investing on both the infrastructure and training. This latest attack started with a compromised password from an inactive account that should`ve been deleted on a network that didn`t utilize two-factor authentication. Who knows what other measures were not implemented which could have isolated the attack and limited it`s spread.

    I don`t know who said this the first time, but I love the quote: "There are only two types of networks. Those which have been hacked and those which will be hacked again"
    Drop by to see the latest at The Car Geek Blog

  13. #28

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    Re: Big price increases coming in near future

    I used to work for Microsoft. You’d be surprised how many places are hacked and the organizations/companies don’t even realize it for months, even years later.

    I own a home theater subwoofer business and plywood prices have doubled and I can no longer get the top quality Baltic Birch plywood. Amplifier and subwoofer driver prices have gone up over 30%. My amplifier lead times have gone from 3-4 weeks to 3 months. I’m not sure I’ll be able to get enough subwoofer drivers to have good sales.

    And my subwoofer business comments are related to auto detailing as we’ve done several subs with gloss lacquer where we wet sand and then polish with a Flex CBeast to get a mirrored shine. When we finish our current 2 custom subs I’ll post up some pictures.
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  14. #29
    bob m's Avatar
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    Re: Big price increases coming in near future

    Quote Originally Posted by Desertnate View Post
    I`ve worked in the government IT space for over 20 years in various capacities and the idea of cyber attacks against critical infrastructure has beena topic of concern in some corners of government and industry the entire time. It`s only hit the public`s attention because the attack directly effected millions of private citizens across a dozen states. Even ransomware isn`t anything new. It`s been a threat vector for almost a decade.



    Agree, but I don`t know if there are any easy answers. The problem is pretty complex at many levels and there is always the human element of complacency or error.

    The best defense is companies taking their IT security seriously and investing on both the infrastructure and training. This latest attack started with a compromised password from an inactive account that should`ve been deleted on a network that didn`t utilize two-factor authentication. Who knows what other measures were not implemented which could have isolated the attack and limited it`s spread.

    I don`t know who said this the first time, but I love the quote: "There are only two types of networks. Those which have been hacked and those which will be hacked again"
    We are in basic agreement, but this should have been taken more seriously years ago.And this is from a guy (me) who is the most tech challenged guy around. But like most things that ain`t sexy, doesn`t get the concern until something happens. About 15 years ago, as a Respiratory Therapist I assisted an MD with a bronchoscopy on a non-intubated patient. Because the MD was in a rush, I didn`t have time to place an oral airway (which prevents the patient from biting down on the scope`s tube) and sooooooo, this patient did bite down and damaged the scope. My understanding was that it was a could have been a couple of grand to fix it. The ICU Attending obviously wasn`t too happy with me - to say the least, and said that the damage done to the scope by not using that airway "was a predictable event." Same thing with not adequately guarding against these cyberattacks and ransomware; only this time, it`s not just predictable, but a certainty - as you mention.

    Of course it`s not easy, but the less we do, the more we are all at risk. And it`s not just the Texas pipeline; apparently there have been many ransomware attacks on smaller levels. And of course penalties have to be stiff. The better prepared we are, the lesser the disturbances.

  15. #30

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    Re: Big price increases coming in near future

    Materials in my line of work have gone from 6 week lead time to 56 week lead time over the last 12 months.
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