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  1. #1
    Forza Auto Salon David Fermani's Avatar
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    The blatant misuse of the term “Ceramic”

    What is everyone’s opinion on how the term “ceramic” is being whored out by sectors of the car care industry such as car washes as well as the consumer grade detailing product companies? Seems like every time you look another company is labeling their detail spray, wash soap, wax or sealant as “ceramic”. I really think at the end of the day it’s further diluting the strength & quality of real ceramic coatings offered by the ones who pioneered the concept.....professional detailers. Do you realize that tunnel car washes are beginning to offer a “ceramic” sealant for a measly $5 add-on and buying it by drum? The operators of these places actually think they’re applying a real ceramic coating to a car while it goes down the conveyor. This will only lead to the notion of no one ever needing an expensive detailer applied ceramic when they can get the similar thing through their local tunnel wash for an extra $5 or even coat their own car 50 times with their big box brand $15 spray “ceramic”. It’s troublesome to continually watch the professional coating market take a hit like this.
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    Re: The blatant misuse of the term “Ceramic”

    Dave Fermani:
    I understand your angst for a "misappropriation/misuse" of the term ceramic. Wax has gotten into the same verbal misuse.
    Microfiber is in the same boat. Until you dig deep into the actual fiber make-up and its construction, to the average person, a microfiber is a microfiber.

    Will there be any legislation to clean this up?? NO. Ask the American dairy farmer about "mismarketing" of the term milk. Just because it is white and comes from almonds does not make it milk.

    I agree that professional detailers are indeed, taking a hit on what do-it-yourselfer`s are using a "ceramic" product and then thinking it is a full-fledged ceramic coated vehicle. Buzz words mean a lot to marketing. Caveat Emptor-Buyer beware.

    Edit: To understand why I consider Dave Fermani an Autopian All-Star, you HAVE to see this photo expose on detailing businesses that were abandoned in Detroit, Michigan after the 2008 Great Recession. Still boggles my mind that this is actually in America!! (Yes, I did see some of these areas first-hand several years later) Unfortunately, the Photobucket copyright debacle has made these photos "difficult" to view.
    https://www.autopia.org/forums/car-d...tml?highlight=
    GB detailer
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  3. #3
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    Re: The blatant misuse of the term “Ceramic”

    Dave - And now Graphene! It does seem to get the average consumer into thinking they don`t need to pay for the good stuff when they can go grab some "wash" and do it themselves. (WHAT?! Now tunnel washes, too?! wow)

    I do get asked often about some of offerings from like Chemical Guys and Adams (credit their marketing for getting their brand out there), and I do my best to educate the guys asking.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnie View Post
    Edit: To understand why I consider Dave Fermani an Autopian All-Star,
    I agree with Dave being an All-Star. I recall the massive thread he had on coatings when they were still new. He did some serious long term testing that involved a tunnel wash. it was a great thread.
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  4. #4
    John U's Avatar
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    Re: The blatant misuse of the term “Ceramic”

    Another is the misuse of the term "leather".

    "Hand Car Wash" has turned into meaning at the end of the tunnel they wipe the glass off by hand.

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    The blatant misuse of the term “Ceramic”

    Unfortunately this will never stop. Companies pay alot for marketing and unfortunately with no regulations they literally could put 2 sand particles in a bottle and call it Sio2 infused. The marketing companies are going to do this till consumers figure this out and demand more. Most just don’t care.

    I don’t disagre with it though as marketing is just trying to sell their products they are playing by the rules

    “Don’t hate the player, hate the game”


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  6. #6

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    Re: The blatant misuse of the term “Ceramic”

    While I whole-heartedly agree, is it any different from the term "wax"? My local touchless car wash doesn`t advertise anything ceramic yet, but it does offer a "wax" cycle if you buy the right package. We all know it is some cheap sealant and there is no way it`s a solution with carnauba wax in it.

    I would take Dave`s argument one step further (in his favor). I think the abuse of the term "coating" goes hand-in-hand with the abuse of the term "ceramic". When everyone started slapping the term on a host of spray products rather than keeping it for the actual long-term ceramic coatings in the little glass bottles, it was all down hill.

    In an unregulated industry, there isn`t much you can do about it. The marketing department will run amok.
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  7. #7
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    Re: The blatant misuse of the term “Ceramic”

    I’ve had these discussions with a few people. Usually I just show them a bottle of a coating (typically a leftover 30ml CSL or EXO bottle), tell them what that tiny bottle costs, then just ask them if they really think that $20 16oz “ceramic” spray is the same thing. Most people are pretty good at figuring that out.

  8. #8
    wannafbody
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    Re: The blatant misuse of the term “Ceramic”

    Ceramic is the newest buzzword. Fomblin was the real deal.

  9. #9
    Forza Auto Salon David Fermani's Avatar
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    Re: The blatant misuse of the term “Ceramic”

    You guys are way too kind! I really appreciate your compliments. I’ve spent a lot of time over the years on this forum and have seen many interesting changes. It will always be my “home” and my detailing roots. Without Autopia I wouldn’t be the detailer I am today. Thank you!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnie View Post
    Edit: To understand why I consider Dave Fermani an Autopian All-Star, you HAVE to see this photo expose on detailing businesses that were abandoned in Detroit, Michigan after the 2008 Great Recession. Still boggles my mind that this is actually in America!! (Yes, I did see some of these areas first-hand several years later) Unfortunately, the Photobucket copyright debacle has made these photos "difficult" to view.
    https://www.autopia.org/forums/car-d...tml?highlight=
    I’m planning on updating my Photobucket subscription and posting here more. This should clear up those existing pics. I’ve got probably 30 more abandoned car washes that I’ve found since making that thread that I’d like to post sooner than later. Stay tuned.

    Quote Originally Posted by JustJesus View Post
    I agree with Dave being an All-Star. I recall the massive thread he had on coatings when they were still new. He did some serious long term testing that involved a tunnel wash. it was a great thread.
    Yes! My Opti-coat durability thread. It was a benchmark for the coating industry back then.
    Metro Detroit`s leader in cleaning, preserving & perfecting fine automobiles!
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  10. #10
    Forza Auto Salon David Fermani's Avatar
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    Re: The blatant misuse of the term “Ceramic”

    I totally get that we can’t ever change the over exaggeration coming out of the places I listed (car washes & big box detail supply companies). But I know for certain that they fear outspoken people condemning their practices. So, making threads such as this and getting the word out to as many people about these critical product differences are key.
    Metro Detroit`s leader in cleaning, preserving & perfecting fine automobiles!
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  11. #11
    AMG Classic Car Detailing Old Pirate's Avatar
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    Re: The blatant misuse of the term “Ceramic”

    Welcome back David! been a long time my friend and yes to your question, it`s seems everyone is getting into the detailing industries with the term ` Ceramic Coatings " and also the term " Graphene " which starting to pop up in alot of detailing vans around me.....I remember the days when Wax and Sealants were the term and we all knew what they meant. They come by where I work and say and show their business cards and say they invented the products and term them and I just laugh and say no thanks to these hacks by me....I had to give up detailing because of my heart which is 40% dead tissue and it`s hard to lift a rotary or PC but still try to maintain my vehicles shine and protection.
    AutopiaForums is the place to be.
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  12. #12
    Forza Auto Salon David Fermani's Avatar
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    Re: The blatant misuse of the term “Ceramic”

    This is a classic example how big box brands are exploiting the professional detailing industry AND belittling its value. How can you take a company like this seriously when they market their spray detailer as a professional grade coating. Total trickery marketed to the unknowing consumer. I’ve been using this product on and off for nearly a year and I can say without hesitation that it’s the furthest thing from a real ceramic coating. Basically a mediocre spray sealant that lasts a few months. Has little to no characteristics of a professional grade coating whatsoever, yet a consumer is really led to think that what’s in the bottle is what a professional detailer is applying for 100’s of dollars. Again, this is hurting the credibility of our profession.
    Metro Detroit`s leader in cleaning, preserving & perfecting fine automobiles!

  13. #13
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    Re: The blatant misuse of the term “Ceramic”

    Quote Originally Posted by David Fermani View Post
    I totally get that we can’t ever change the over exaggeration coming out of the places I listed (car washes & big box detail supply companies). But I know for certain that they fear outspoken people condemning their practices. So, making threads such as this and getting the word out to as many people about these critical product differences are key.
    May as well include coating mfg`s who tout such things as Diamond-Infusion and Scratch Resistance if looking for such `exaggerated` marketing.

    While the above 2 examples can be distilled in a manner that makes them technically correct, the reality is somewhat less than described.

    Is the Car Wash really that much different than the `pro` who hoses down a car with something like Gyeon Wetcoat and tags it an "Entry Level Ceramic Coating Service"?

    It`s just marketing no matter the level where it occurs.
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  14. #14

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    Re: The blatant misuse of the term “Ceramic”

    I have argued this "misrepresentation" of other terms as well in marketing: one being "Lifetime guarantee" and "Money-back guarantee if not completely satisfied". Neither one is true, especially the former. As I have stated before, in the state of Wisconsin, the state supreme court has ruled that "lifetime" means 7 years. In reality, it has NOTHING to do with the product`s life expectancy nor the buyer`s living life in time; it only applies to the life-time of the company`s existence. This was brought to my attention when my wife and I looked at replacement windows for our house and window companies who sell their windows with "a lifetime guarantee". A law suite involving windows with such a guarantee went all the way to the state supreme court and the above ruling time-frame is the legal precedent (ruling standard) for cases involving "lifetime guarantees".
    Another case at my local level involved a long-time new car dealership that offered "free life-time oil changes" with new cars purchased there. When the dealership went under shortly after the 2008 Great Recession, those vehicle owners who had purchased new vehicle at said dealership under this pretense asked who would pay for continuing their oil changes. The lawyer for the troubled dealership said "You will", since the dealership and its ownership no longer existed. As stated, Caveat Emptor- Buyer Beware
    GB detailer

  15. #15
    William_Wallace's Avatar
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    Re: The blatant misuse of the term “Ceramic”

    The whored out comment had me laughing.. The kool-aid is strong but delicious
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