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  1. #16

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    Re: What do YOU think your LSP is providing?

    No UV blockers in #1000P, only micro crystal wax and other synthetic waxes. The ValuGard warrantied paint sealant has UV blockers in it, but like any companies sealant, they don`t stay there for long, more of a marketing thing.
    "Logic dictates I have been at this detailing thing way too many years!":wink1:
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  2. #17

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    Re: What do YOU think your LSP is providing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Ketcham View Post
    No UV blockers in #1000P, only micro crystal wax and other synthetic waxes...
    Ah, OK..I`ll just count my lucky stars (again) that I haven`t had any problems.

    The ValuGard warrantied paint sealant has UV blockers in it, but like any companies sealant, they don`t stay there for long, more of a marketing thing.
    And yeah..that "marketing.." is about what I`d figured.

    Now if I could just remember where I saw that info on the UV-blockers in OCW..

  3. #18
    bodidly22's Avatar
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    Re: What do YOU think your LSP is providing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    Ah, OK..I`ll just count my lucky stars (again) that I haven`t had any problems.

    And yeah..that "marketing.." is about what I`d figured.

    Now if I could just remember where I saw that info on the UV-blockers in OCW..
    40 years as a chemist.. Masters.. ph.D - if there`s a man/brand to believe. It would be Dr G. @ OPT
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  4. #19

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    Re: What do YOU think your LSP is providing?

    Quote Originally Posted by bodidly22 View Post
    40 years as a chemist.. Masters.. ph.D - if there`s a man/brand to believe. It would be Dr G. @ OPT
    Heh heh, I know scads of people with advanced degrees and I don`t trust any of them unconditionally, even with regard to their areas of expertise. Learned that the hard way at the U, over and over and over.

    I *generally* agree about Dr. G, but I don`t believe everything I hear from, uhm...guys with skin in the game

    E.g., back when ONR was trashing my Collinite, nobody at Optimum would acknowledge it or even challenge the Fanboys who claimed I wasn`t experiencing what I most definitely was.

    No, no...not flaming either him or Optimum, stating that explicitly since it might sound like I am. Maybe the UV Testing I`m vaguely recalling did come from Optimum. If so, I must`ve felt I had good reason to believe it as I maintain a healthy (scientific and objective) skepticism of all manufacturer claims.
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  5. #20
    Dan's Avatar
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    Re: What do YOU think your LSP is providing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    I`m always surprised to hear that. As I keep posting, many of the people I know who lease *REALLY* abuse/neglect `em, often never washing them at all ("the dealer does it when it`s in for service") or even vacuuming out the interiors. They genuinely look like something out of a junkyard by the time they`re turned in, but nobody I know has ever been dinged for that. Never even gets mentioned.
    A good portion don`t even do the free maintenance while leasing to get the free wash....

  6. #21

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    Re: What do YOU think your LSP is providing?

    I dont care for the protection as much as I care for the looks. I want a dripping wet look. These new spray waxes are a God sent. 20minutes of spraying and wiping and your done. I use different ones and they are all good. This morning I used DG Aqua Wax , next time I may use Mothers or Meguiars or Turtle Wax just depends on my mood .Once a year a claying and cleaner wax and Im good to go
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  7. #22

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    Re: What do YOU think your LSP is providing?

    This whole discussion is why I bought OPT CCR to ease the aging process of my 17yr old car. The car looks great!, no failures anywhere, just want to add a little bit more permanent protection from damaging elements, especially on the roof and deck lid. If I remember correctly, CCR has a little bit of UV blockers built in.

  8. #23
    rlmccarty2000's Avatar
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    Re: What do YOU think your LSP is providing?

    I just wanted to say that I too have noticed the majority of clear coat failures are on vehicles that look as if they have never been maintained at all. I could be that even normal washing removes the dirt that can scour clear coat making it more susceptible to failure. Or it could be the vehicles I see with CC failure are too far gone for their owners to even care. The chicken or the egg?
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  9. #24

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    Re: What do YOU think your LSP is providing?

    In OP experience I think that it comes down to the paint it self in how effective it is to block the UV.

    I see the LSPs as sunscreen lotion protection if it`s called that LOL. Hope you get my not native english LOL. Either way the LSP is adding the UV protection to the paints own build in protection. To prolong the degrading of the color of the paint to be holding up longer. Even if you take really good care of your paint the evidence if the protection care you did was enough you could do a debadging or rebadging. And you will see if your UV protection from the LSPs you have used has been good or bad. Say on 5 year old paint that is parked outside during the sun hours in the sun. It would be very surprising if you not would see any shift in the shade of the color in your paint from under where the badge was. It`s not going to be a huge difference but I would bet it was visual noticeble if you looked closely on it. I have seen many company vehicals that has these color shade shift from their company logos and such. And they can be only a couple of years driven. That`s where PPF and wraps comes in to play with being a superior way to block the UV. But it has it`s drawback too. Especially the looks from them from an autopian eyes. They gets better and better to developing the PPF to look like you don`t have any of it on the vehicals. When it comes to the company cars and they saves a lot of hassle when turning in the vehical if used a cool printed vinyl wrap.

    Then you can argue if it`s worth to be PPF or wrap a vehical for personal use. Do we buy new vehicals today and keep them for 5-10 years? Cause if you take care of your vehical great with protection and maintance washes. The degrading of the color I don`t think would be that much so it screams to be repainted. There is though a scare in how the vehical manufactures developing ways to apply the paint thinner and thinner. So who knows how a new mostly asian vehicals will be in 5-10 years from now in the faded color and future UV protection from then on. But this is on every vehical brands as they all seems to be haveing thinner paints than used to. The problems gets for those who is buying used vehicals as times goes as someone like me. Visually it`s a no problem if you buying a new car inside of every 5 years. But buying a 5-10 year old vehical and it`s getting more tricky in knowing how well it`s cared for and maintained from new. The leasers mind set is something I don`t understand. But if they don`t get to pony up for the neglecting after 3 years they will keep neglecting the leased vehicals. Here in Sweden I think that they are quite hard on this. Some leases has also a highest miles setting when turning it in. Which can be hard to evaluate when signing the lease as it can be changing during the 3 years lease. So they who has those are fast to upgrade the miles and the cost of the lease when the sees they going over the miles limit. The extra cost is high if you don`t and gets added when turning it in. If I where to buy new cars when it`s time to get a new one. I would look at the length on the engine warranty as that`s useally the shortest one. And trade in to a new car when it goes out either when you reach the years limit or the miles driven limits. So I with great service and maintance is as good covered as possible.

    Then for us autopians it`s much of how our vehicals looks. While for many others it`s not a factor even. As it`s just a way for transportation. So the paint is for protecting the body of the vehical so it won`t rust apart on the vehicals LOL. And that was what it was intended to be doing in the first place. Keeping it that way is quite easy but there are more maintance on the undercarriage and the exposed parts there and the safety that parts in great condition gives. But those who neglect the paint often neglect the service and maintance of the other parts of the vehical than the paint LOL.
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  10. #25

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    Re: What do YOU think your LSP is providing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    A good portion..[of leasers].. don`t even do the free maintenance while leasing to get the free wash....
    Now that surprises me, I`d think they *would* get dinged for missed maintenance. I gotta say that the "negligent" (scare-quotes intentional as I understand why they do it that way) people I know never miss a service.

    Quote Originally Posted by rlmccarty2000
    I just wanted to say that I too have noticed the majority of clear coat failures are on vehicles that look as if they have never been maintained at all...
    I wonder whether your locale factors in big-time. The ones that have obvious failure in my area all appear to be the result of some kind of abrasion..overpolishing (maybe when traded/prepped for resale) or from where somebody constantly grabs the paint.

    Quote Originally Posted by SWETM
    Do we buy new vehicals today and keep them for 5-10 years? Cause if you take care of your vehical great with protection and maintance washes. The degrading of the color I don`t think would be that much so it screams to be repainted...
    Heh heh, I still consider a 10yo vehicle "not close to broken in" But my newest one is an `08 Ford so I just don`t know from today`s cheaper imports. The `01 Mazda had whisper-thin clear, but it`s paint was one of the few things that held up fine while we had the POS.
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  11. #26
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    Re: What do YOU think your LSP is providing?

    Nobody Iím aware of has ever proven any LSP does anything to extend the life of paint or make it look better as it ages. Some may claim UV protection; but what exactly are the wavelengths and percentage blocked? Is it significant enough to extend the life of your paint? How often does the product need to be applied to provide this protection?

    These type of answers cost money to conduct tests, hire experts, and crunch data. Frankly, there is little if any incentive for any manufacturer to do so. If the clear coat is many microns thick and ďwaxĒ is a micron if youíre lucky - common sense tells you it isnít doing much of anything.

    I think it may make the car easier to wash and add to the looks a bit and thatís about it. Mostly itís about doing something that makes you feel like something is better than nothing & it provides good feels.

    If you think about it, a film of dirt on the paint likely provides some UV protection - maybe an incentive to keep your car dirty.

  12. #27
    bodidly22's Avatar
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    Re: What do YOU think your LSP is providing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swanicyouth View Post

    I think it may make the car easier to wash and add to the looks a bit and thatís about it. Mostly itís about doing something that makes you feel like something is better than nothing & it provides good feels.

    If you think about it, a film of dirt on the paint likely provides some UV protection - maybe an incentive to keep your car dirty.
    surely it`s the other way around... dirty vehicle enables UVA-UVB to diffuse and penetrate the paint more thus exacerbating oxidation.



    I still feel ripped off... I want to burn the garage down except for a bucket, mitt, soap and a drying towel! Everything else is just trivial BS!
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  13. #28

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    Re: What do YOU think your LSP is providing?

    I`ve obtained numerous vehicles that were kept very clean but never waxed. Every one of them had terrible paint with oxidation, stains, and lots of marring (from the unprotected surface retaining dirt that was then rubbed into the paint), and worst of all...*ETCHING* from not being protected against nasty stuff that got on the paint.

    Meanwhile, I`m leaving bird-bombs and bugs on my FK1000P`ed paint for months at a time with zero etching/staining/issues. And no paint failure after decades of use.

    Although I`ll be the first to say that this kind of cosmetic Autopianism is just that-cosmetic rather than functional. Even when the paint fails and the panels become surfac-rusted, it`s very rare for that rust to cause perforation/etc., especially if it`s kept clean. The vehicle just looks awful to people like us.
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  14. #29

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    Re: What do YOU think your LSP is providing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    ..Meanwhile, I`m leaving bird-bombs and bugs on my FK1000P`ed paint for months at a time with zero etching/staining/issues. And no paint failure after decades of use.
    Ah yes, The Gospel of Finish-Kare`s 1000P Hi-Temp Wax according to Accumulator.
    OK, so Captain Obvious is poking a little fun (a little? REALLY?!) at Accumulator as the Autopian disciple and guru of FK1000P, but it is not without experience.
    When you factor in its cost of about $20.00 for a 12 ounce tin and consider what you get as an LSP, it is quite a bargain.
    Consider this thread on FK1000P that has taken on a life of its own:
    https://www.autopia.org/forums/waxes...questions.html

    I go back to my initial thoughts on what a LSP provides:
    1) Reflective gloss
    2) Environmental protection
    3) Water beading or sheeting
    Perhaps the REAL question is not what you THINK it should provide, but WHICH is the most important of these qualities of a LSP to you as an vehicle owner/leasee.
    There is one more "quality" itself that I have eluded to above, and that is initial cost or cost of application. To some it may not be important, but to most detailing hobbyist or "frugal" (think cost-conscious) daily driver vehicle owner/leasee , it is a "quality" that needs to be factored in.

    For myself, I get all three qualities to some degree with Collinite 915 Marque D`elegance Wax and it is not a super-expensive wax when you compare it to Pinnacle`s Souveran , Wolfgang`s Fusion, or Blackfire`s BlackIce waxes, or even P21S 100% Carnauba wax. The carnauba gloss or look has always been the main focus of an LSP for me.
    GB detailer

  15. #30

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    Re: What do YOU think your LSP is providing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnie View Post
    Ah yes, The Gospel of Finish-Kare`s 1000P Hi-Temp Wax according to Accumulator.
    OK, so Captain Obvious is poking a little fun (a little? REALLY?!) at Accumulator as the Autopian disciple and guru of FK1000P, but it is not without experience...
    Heh heh, guilty as charged...and I did get a kick out of reading that

    Yes indeed, I`ve kinda turned into FK1000P`s #1 Fanboy.

    Keep in mind that I expected to *NOT* be favorably impressed with the stuff. Let my little sample tin sit on the shelf for so long that it dried out hard as a rock until Ron Ketcham finally convinced me to give it a try (had to soften it up with FK425 just to use it). I was absolutely predisposed to say it was [crap], being utterly satisfied with my other LSPs (including Collinite).

    And yeah, different people are gonna have different priorities/preferences/etc. That`s what makes it a horse race I`ll be right upfront about how I`m currently all about Functional Qualities like durability and protection against etching. I initially thought the Fk1000P would look so awful to me on dark colors that I kept putting Collinite on some vehicles until I got tired of redoing `em so often (and note that others here have in deed had *better* durability out of Collinite than they got out of the FK).

    When you factor in its cost of about $20.00 for a 12 ounce tin and consider what you get as an LSP, it is quite a bargain.
    Noting that I layer it pretty heavily, and use it on many pretty big vehicles (e.g., the time I overdid the zillion-layers approach on that Yukon XLD comes to mind, and I`m still using it on the Tahoe and Crown Vic) and that I do the wheels/jambs/etc. with all those layers too...I`m still on my first tin of it besides that little sample. Still got enough left for many years of many layers. If a non-Pro doesn`t get at least a decade out of a tin, I`d suspect that person is being wasteful with it (which is OK if that makes it easier to apply, no need to be as conservative as I am, thick applications buff off OK IME).
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