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  1. #46
    Rasky's Auto Detailing RaskyR1's Avatar
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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    Not to be argumentative (but you know how I like to pursue certain, uhm...intellectual exercises ), but I believe that the reason why it`s hard (not impossible, note the "denim orangepeel removal pads" that some here swear by) to "flatten the peaks" is because the vast majority of compounding approaches conform to the uneven surface of the paint, leveling the peaks and valleys more or less equally.

    Although decades of polishing the lacquer on my Jag with conventional pads/products *HAS* definitely diminished the "peaks and valleys" of its oe orangepeel in many areas..



    Goodness, that`s quite a few more than I had during my, uhm...accumulating phase of life! Hope you find time to enjoy them, I found I simply can`t..life`s too short. But it sounds like you have Pros doing the detailing and that`s a whole different ballgame. Props to you if you`re still truly enjoying this stuff!



    One reason might be the look. I`ve yet to see PPF that I thought looked as nice as unfilmed paint. And I don`t know anybody who could PPF the areas I *would* like done to my satisfaction, whereas having a coating done shouldn`t be all that challenging by comparison.

    I`ve always thought of PPF as protection against the "big-time paint damage" like rock chips and "dummy touched the paint"-type scratches, whereas the coatings are more like a good etching-resistant LSPs that lasts an extra long time and that, if they impart increased hardness, protect more against "normal abuse that doesn`t do such terrible damage".

    But then IMO there shouldn`t be all that much damage anyhow, I`m constantly surprised that so many vehicles continue to need correction so often...
    I think that has a lot to do with the paint itself. My OEM Ram paint has terrible texture to it and the hood with PPF on it looks noticeably better, and that`s not even with the nicest looking film on it. Now if it were a fully wet sanded and leveled paint the film wouldn`t look as good.
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  2. #47
    Ummm.... Ya..... TroyScherer's Avatar
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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Quote Originally Posted by ttforcefed View Post
    I have 25 cars so i have a few guys i use. I guess im looking tl understand how hard working people justify 2k for ceramic.

    I had modesta put on my ff in 2015 and i drive that through the northeast winters. 2 yrs later it took one of my detailers almost 6 hours of polishing to that crap off my paint.

    Okay. This is now making a little more sense to me.

    If you have any Qty of vehicles that you pay someone else to take care of and you don`t spend any time on yourself; then a coating may not make sense. In this case I would think that you should be asking your detailer this question and not a bunch of car care junkies because we are going to tell you the benefits of a coating. Your detailer is the one that would see the ease of cleaning and marring resistance while all you see is a clean car.

    For me using coatings help to make washing easier and help to reduce marring. This means that in the long run I save time and money in not needing to do a regular 6-12 month detail and polish the paint. If you are paying someone to continually do then it doesn`t really matter for you as long as your detailer is using good polishing practices and not always chasing perfection.
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  3. #48

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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Quote Originally Posted by TroyScherer View Post
    Okay. This is now making a little more sense to me.

    If you have any Qty of vehicles that you pay someone else to take care of and you don`t spend any time on yourself; then a coating may not make sense. In this case I would think that you should be asking your detailer this question and not a bunch of car care junkies because we are going to tell you the benefits of a coating. Your detailer is the one that would see the ease of cleaning and marring resistance while all you see is a clean car.

    For me using coatings help to make washing easier and help to reduce marring. This means that in the long run I save time and money in not needing to do a regular 6-12 month detail and polish the paint. If you are paying someone to continually do then it doesn`t really matter for you as long as your detailer is using good polishing practices and not always chasing perfection.
    Do you prefer ceramic over paint or over ppf?

    I use a few of the more well known detailers in the nyc metro area. Only one advised putting ceramic on my f40. I dont use him anymore.


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  4. #49
    Ummm.... Ya..... TroyScherer's Avatar
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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Quote Originally Posted by ttforcefed View Post
    Do you prefer ceramic over paint or over ppf?

    I use a few of the more well known detailers in the nyc metro area. Only one advised putting ceramic on my f40. I dont use him anymore.

    I have never had PPF on any of my vehicles. I considered it on my GTI but when with a coating. I choose coatings because I can buy them and apply them myself which adds extra protection and save me money vs paying someone else to do it.

    I have seen a number of vehicles with PPF on them a few high end cars. With a good installer and film I personally can almost not tell it’s there.

    In in the long run I think a coating on the paint, then PPF over top would be the ultimate protection. Thinking that the coating could help protect the paint some if you even need to replace the PPF.

  5. #50

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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Quote Originally Posted by TroyScherer View Post

    I have never had PPF on any of my vehicles. I considered it on my GTI but when with a coating. I choose coatings because I can buy them and apply them myself which adds extra protection and save me money vs paying someone else to do it.

    I have seen a number of vehicles with PPF on them a few high end cars. With a good installer and film I personally can almost not tell itís there.

    In in the long run I think a coating on the paint, then PPF over top would be the ultimate protection. Thinking that the coating could help protect the paint some if you even need to replace the PPF.
    So i thought about that as well and i was told ppf wont stick to the ceramic.



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  6. #51
    Mike The Guz's Avatar
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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Quote Originally Posted by ttforcefed View Post
    So i thought about that as well and i was told ppf wont stick to the ceramic.



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    Optimum has their own line of PPF and they mentioned that Opti Coat Pro can be covered with their PPF.
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  7. #52

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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Lots of claims from interested parties. My impression is detailers figured out they cld get people who were spending 700 bucks to spend 2500 with no real incremental value proposition.

    For my garage queens i think the answer is detail and polish as little as possible. Thats easy. Its for my suvs and other fun daily drivers that im completely lost on.


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  8. #53

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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    If you have detailers maintaining your cars for you, just pay for whatever look you are happy with. If your eyes can’t tell the difference, it’s not worth spending on. If you get bored with a certain look easily, coatings aren’t for you since it’s meant to last for a long time.
    If Modesta is a pain to get off, to me it’s doing it’s job protecting the paint. It can withstand a lot of punishment that the paint would have taken instead.

    If I owned a rare car that can appreciate in value over time and drive it, I would PPF the entire car. Depending on how much I plan to drive the car, I would add a coating on top of the PPF to protect the PPF from discoloration. At that point it’s about max protection for the paint when I’m driving against rock chips or even people when it’s parked. If I wanted a show car who’s job is to only look pretty, I would just apply a wax that is pleasing to the eyes.

  9. #54

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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Quote Originally Posted by Saber732 View Post
    If you have detailers maintaining your cars for you, just pay for whatever look you are happy with. If your eyes canít tell the difference, itís not worth spending on. If you get bored with a certain look easily, coatings arenít for you since itís meant to last for a long time.
    If Modesta is a pain to get off, to me itís doing itís job protecting the paint. It can withstand a lot of punishment that the paint would have taken instead.

    If I owned a rare car that can appreciate in value over time and drive it, I would PPF the entire car. Depending on how much I plan to drive the car, I would add a coating on top of the PPF to protect the PPF from discoloration. At that point itís about max protection for the paint when Iím driving against rock chips or even people when itís parked. If I wanted a show car whoís job is to only look pretty, I would just apply a wax that is pleasing to the eyes.
    Ok so you wld never put ceramic on the paint of an f40?


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  10. #55
    Detailers Workshop The Driver's Avatar
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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    I don`t understand, why wouldn`t you put ceramic on anything? Ceramic was initially created as a stronger barrier against heavy fallout (Google Megs M888 for the Chinese market, also great for NYC and LI). A coating does nothing but protect, there is no negative other than cost. When compared to wax it yields a much higher chemical resistance, lasts longer and provides more gloss.

    The only reason I wouldn`t put it on a car is that it sometimes detracts from flat brightness colors and adds more reflectiveness (mirror look).

    PPF is mean`t for preservation purposes, exotics and collector cars.
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  11. #56
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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Quote Originally Posted by Saber732 View Post
    If I owned a rare car that can appreciate in value over time and drive it, I would PPF the entire car. Depending on how much I plan to drive the car, I would add a coating on top of the PPF to protect the PPF from discoloration. At that point it’s about max protection for the paint when I’m driving against rock chips or even people when it’s parked. If I wanted a show car who’s job is to only look pretty, I would just apply a wax that is pleasing to the eyes.
    Bingo, I do this with a few of clients. Best results and I never have to worry about the PPF getting stained or discolored.
    Rupes 21 MK II, Rupes 15 MK II, Rupes 21, Rupes LHR75e, Rupes Ibrid-L, Rupes LH18ENS, Flex PE-14-2, Dodo Juice V1, Dewalt 749X

  12. #57
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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Quote Originally Posted by ttforcefed View Post
    My biggest issue with ceramics is putting something on the paint that knowingly will need aggressive polishing to remove. Then people say you shldnt put ceramic on paint and rather better to put it on ppf. To that i say why spend 2500 bucks on ceramic when the ppf will likely be replaced every few years.


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    Depends on the techniques and products being used. There are many way to approach a high value vehicle without removing material initially or when removing a coating per say.
    Rupes 21 MK II, Rupes 15 MK II, Rupes 21, Rupes LHR75e, Rupes Ibrid-L, Rupes LH18ENS, Flex PE-14-2, Dodo Juice V1, Dewalt 749X

  13. #58
    Detailers Workshop The Driver's Avatar
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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Quote Originally Posted by ttforcefed View Post
    So why use ceramic instead of ppf?


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    1. Cost
    2. Chemical resistance (Excellent for single stage paints where a harsh cleaner could stain the paint). PPF will not cover everything like a coating can (Assuming it`s applied properly).
    3. Looks, depending on the OEM. Vehicles like Porsche and Toyota have a excellent QC when it comes to having less of an orange peel looks so some PPF`s will add texture. Some clients will opt not to just because of that alone. Other OEM`s like GM an such have a very will say blatant textured look to them and in some cases the PPF texture will actually reduce the peel look.
    4. Hydrophobic properties, the water resistance of coatings is on another level. The vehicle will stay cleaner longer, road debris like Bugs and Tar will release far easier resulting in less or no marring.

    This is a Full PPF with a very highly regarded Coating (Not all coatings are the same). This is approximately 8-9 mills of material on this car.


    Rupes 21 MK II, Rupes 15 MK II, Rupes 21, Rupes LHR75e, Rupes Ibrid-L, Rupes LH18ENS, Flex PE-14-2, Dodo Juice V1, Dewalt 749X

  14. #59

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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Quote Originally Posted by ttforcefed View Post
    Ok so you wld never put ceramic on the paint of an f40?


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    No, I don’t think I would. If I’m driving the Ferrari around, I would PPF it. PPF will protect against rock chips, coating will not. If something hits the PPF hard enough to damage it, it’ll do damage to the paint. I think it’ll be cheaper to replace a piece of PPF than to get a Ferrari repainted. I don’t think you’ll be using Dr Colorchip to the paint. If it’s a show car, I would have a wax put on it that gives me the look that I want. It’s a Ferrari so there’s no way it wouldn’t be garage kept. Why pay for a coating to make your detailer a life easier when washing the car. I doubt he is giving you a discount for it lol.

    I have a coating on my GTI. My car is parked outdoors at all times. I do my own car washes. I did the math and it costs about the same to get my car professionally detailed every 6 months vs a correction and coating once for 2 years. When I hinted I may occaisonally have the detailer that did my coating do the maintenance wash, he disagreed. He said washing the car will be easy and I won’t let anyone touch my car. He’s been right so far. PPF is too expensive for what I paid for the car. I’ll fix the inevitable paint chips myself. You and I are in different worlds. Coatings aren’t for everyone and I’m not looking to convince anyone that it is. Do what makes you happy. I habe no regrets with my coating 6 months in, will see what’s happens when NE winter hits.

  15. #60
    dansautodetailing.com Stokdgs's Avatar
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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Quote Originally Posted by ttforcefed View Post
    Lots of claims from interested parties. My impression is detailers figured out they cld get people who were spending 700 bucks to spend 2500 with no real incremental value proposition.

    For my garage queens i think the answer is detail and polish as little as possible. Thats easy. Its for my suvs and other fun daily drivers that im completely lost on.


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    None of the Detailers that I know including myself, do this to Clients - ever - ! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Perhaps those people who give you that "impression" are the ones to avoid..
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