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  1. #31

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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    My biggest issue with ceramics is putting something on the paint that knowingly will need aggressive polishing to remove. Then people say you shldnt put ceramic on paint and rather better to put it on ppf. To that i say why spend 2500 bucks on ceramic when the ppf will likely be replaced every few years.


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  2. #32

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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Quote Originally Posted by ttforcefed View Post
    My biggest issue with ceramics is putting something on the paint that knowingly will need aggressive polishing to remove...
    Same concern here, and it would mess with the ability to spot-correct.

    But then I wouldn`t trust myself to avoid high-spots/etc. anyhow, maybe that just biases me against the coatings...

    Then people say you shldnt put ceramic on paint and rather better to put it on ppf. To that i say why spend 2500 bucks on ceramic when the ppf will likely be replaced every few years..
    Yeah, I think of the PPF as supposedly *saving* me work/concerns. Not that I`d replace my PPF every few years...

  3. #33
    dansautodetailing.com Stokdgs's Avatar
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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Quote Originally Posted by ttforcefed View Post
    My biggest issue with ceramics is putting something on the paint that knowingly will need aggressive polishing to remove. Then people say you shldnt put ceramic on paint and rather better to put it on ppf. To that i say why spend 2500 bucks on ceramic when the ppf will likely be replaced every few years.


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    No, it does not require "aggressive polishing" to remove a coating..
    If the coating has been on for several years as it was on one of my cars, it took the lightest finishing polish Optimum makes, - Optimum Finish - to remove it..

    No, clearbra`s do not need to be removed every few years... For example, the Venture Shield on my `09 Grand Cherokee is still in great condition at year - 9 - It is still very glossy and clear.. Why would I want to remove it?

    Yes, you can apply a coating to a clearbra but it will not adhere as long to the clearbra because the clearbra is - plastic -.
    Plastic is not paint..
    Plastic has a life of its own and it is different from paint..

    Apparently, the makers of coatings have not taken the time or do not care to figure out how automobile manufacturers, and every auto paint shop in the world can cause primer and paint to adhere very well to plastic bumpers, parts, etc., for as long as it does..

    Or perhaps the plastic used in these auto parts is a different configuration that allows certain chemicals (primer, sealer, flex agent, paint) to adhere to it and not reject it later...
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  4. #34

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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    Rather different experiences/opinion here, especially in the functional (protection, durability) diffs with various paint treatments.

    IME very few LSPs provide satisfactory protection against etching, which I consider utterly crucial, but the few that do are virtual miracles compared to the also-rans (and also display near-miraculous durability). The OCW I use on my wife`s car provides virtually zero protection against etching (but hey, neither did M16 when it really counted ) and both it and the UQW/D156 need redone quite frequently compared to the LSPs I consider worthwhile. I`ve kind of gotten to where I just redo the Spray Wax almost every time I wash her car, at least on certain areas...easy enough since I always use some Drying Aid anyhow. Looks fine, but it`s not really protected compared to the other vehicles and some day I`ll probably redo it properly like the others.
    This is huge IMO. As a consumer you have to decide what you want from "protection". Do you just want water beading? Do you want that resistance to etching? Slick paint? There was a podcast somewhere that talked about Meguiars designing a coating for the north american market. They mentioned consumers wanting durable water beading and they said "well we have products that already do that"

  5. #35

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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Quote Originally Posted by ttforcefed View Post
    My biggest issue with ceramics is putting something on the paint that knowingly will need aggressive polishing to remove. Then people say you shldnt put ceramic on paint and rather better to put it on ppf. To that i say why spend 2500 bucks on ceramic when the ppf will likely be replaced every few years.


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    What would it cost you to have a detailer to maintain a wax during a couple of years?
    And how many times would he like you to have polishing done during that time?

    It`s a difference to leave a vehical to a detailer and maintain it your self price wise. And if I understand you right the only maintance is a brushless car wash you use. And this is to almost every protection that you get the properties of the last one applyied. Then you say it`s no difference and that I understand if the brushless car wash is what maintain the car. But with a decon wash you can maybe see the coating properties and a sign of it still. That depends on much though. But 1 year in I would be certain to get the coating revived and you would see a real difference between the 2 sides.

    What would it do for you is another question. If useing a brushless car wash that leaves enough protection behind your washes. That would make no sense for your situation to use a coating. Here comes the big but. How is the protection from the car wash protection and what does it protects. And this is the question from all protection applyied. Is it a wax or sealant or coating and what is just that protection protects from. There are so much variables that a protection products has. Then comes the environment you live in and what your specific need is. Some have found there protection and are very satisfied with it as it works for them. And sometimes it`s not only for protection you use a LSP but for the looks it gets on your car. Then for some the cost of the maintance is no problem and they can go to pretty costly products to be applyied on there vehicals. There is waxes that costs plenty more than a coating for an example.

    Don`t really know what I will get out of this. Just that there are so many ways to protect your car. That it`s a djungle to find out what suits your needs. So if coatings is not for you then they are not. But for someone else it can suit their need and för others sealants is the way to go with. It`s just that the compare you did has no value with the maintance you did. And you have no idea if the coating is still under what ever the car wash leaved on it. If you don`t strip that off and see what happens. You could have protect the coating during this 2 years and have a year left from it who knows. I have revived sealants and coating toppers that the water laid flat on after a thorough PW rinse.
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  6. #36

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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    I have 25 cars so i have a few guys i use. I guess im looking tl understand how hard working people justify 2k for ceramic.

    I had modesta put on my ff in 2015 and i drive that through the northeast winters. 2 yrs later it took one of my detailers almost 6 hours of polishing to that crap off my paint.


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  7. #37
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    2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Quote Originally Posted by WaxAddict View Post
    Another monkey wrench: beading duration also depends on the car and the paint.
    Note I said “car”. My Volvo used to shed waxes in WEEKS, even good ones like Collinite. Contrarily, my Nissan would never stop beading.
    Agree. Some clean paint is just more hydrophobic than others...

    You should tell everyone you put a coating on your Nissan lol. As, I’m pretty sure that’s what’s going on with people claiming years and years from their coating. Their paint just naturally beads water well for whatever reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttforcefed View Post
    I have 25 cars so i have a few guys i use. I guess im looking tl understand how hard working people justify 2k for ceramic.

    I had modesta put on my ff in 2015 and i drive that through the northeast winters. 2 yrs later it took one of my detailers almost 6 hours of polishing to that crap off my paint.


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    Curious why you removed it after 2 years? Isn’t that the stuff that is supposed to last until the apocalypse?

    The question I have is if the coating is sooo durable; how can you ever remove it 100%? Paint is peaks and valleys under a microscope. We know you can’t compound down the peaks - you must wet sand. So, if the coating is HARDER than the paint itself - why would you assume you could polish it out of the valleys?

  8. #38

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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    After trying ceramic on a few cars for a cple years i decided i wanted it off the ff and 430 spider. We used modesa, opti something and a 3rd one.


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  9. #39
    Detailers Workshop The Driver's Avatar
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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    PPF and Coatings are entirely different and have entirely different uses.

    PPF is an elastic barrier that prevents against physical damage, where as Coatings are mean`t for chemical damage.

    Modesta is a PITA to remove I will absolutely vouch for how tough it is physically.
    Rupes 21 MK II, Rupes 15 MK II, Rupes 21, Rupes LHR75e, Rupes Duetto, Rupes Ibrid-L, Rupes LH18ENS, Flex PE-14-2, Dodo Juice V1

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    At $21.99 it will remain a secret to me.

  10. #40

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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Quote Originally Posted by The Driver View Post
    PPF and Coatings are entirely different and have entirely different uses.

    PPF is an elastic barrier that prevents against physical damage, where as Coatings are mean`t for chemical damage.

    Modesta is a PITA to remove I will absolutely vouch for how tough it is physically.
    So why use ceramic instead of ppf?


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  11. #41
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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Quote Originally Posted by ttforcefed View Post
    So why use ceramic instead of ppf?


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    Cost of install, perhaps?

  12. #42

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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Quote Originally Posted by Swanicyouth View Post
    Paint is peaks and valleys under a microscope. We know you can’t compound down the peaks - you must wet sand. So, if the coating is HARDER than the paint itself - why would you assume you could polish it out of the valleys?
    Not to be argumentative (but you know how I like to pursue certain, uhm...intellectual exercises ), but I believe that the reason why it`s hard (not impossible, note the "denim orangepeel removal pads" that some here swear by) to "flatten the peaks" is because the vast majority of compounding approaches conform to the uneven surface of the paint, leveling the peaks and valleys more or less equally.

    Although decades of polishing the lacquer on my Jag with conventional pads/products *HAS* definitely diminished the "peaks and valleys" of its oe orangepeel in many areas..

    Quote Originally Posted by ttforcefed
    I have 25 cars..
    Goodness, that`s quite a few more than I had during my, uhm...accumulating phase of life! Hope you find time to enjoy them, I found I simply can`t..life`s too short. But it sounds like you have Pros doing the detailing and that`s a whole different ballgame. Props to you if you`re still truly enjoying this stuff!

    So why use ceramic instead of ppf?
    One reason might be the look. I`ve yet to see PPF that I thought looked as nice as unfilmed paint. And I don`t know anybody who could PPF the areas I *would* like done to my satisfaction, whereas having a coating done shouldn`t be all that challenging by comparison.

    I`ve always thought of PPF as protection against the "big-time paint damage" like rock chips and "dummy touched the paint"-type scratches, whereas the coatings are more like a good etching-resistant LSPs that lasts an extra long time and that, if they impart increased hardness, protect more against "normal abuse that doesn`t do such terrible damage".

    But then IMO there shouldn`t be all that much damage anyhow, I`m constantly surprised that so many vehicles continue to need correction so often...

  13. #43

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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    This whole post feels like a troll.... you have 25 cars, a Ferrari, dont know what you do or dont have on your car....halfway coated your car? Why would you ever do that? Non of this makes any sense...
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  14. #44

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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Quote Originally Posted by estcstm3 View Post
    This whole post feels like a troll.... you have 25 cars, a Ferrari, dont know what you do or dont have on your car....halfway coated your car? Why would you ever do that? Non of this makes any sense...
    Ha thats a good one


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  15. #45

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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Search my screen name on fchat if ur really worried


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