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  1. #16

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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Quote Originally Posted by ttforcefed View Post
    I understand what u guys are saying but it refutes using ceramics especially given the crazy prices no?


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    No.

    What they`re saying is that the protection you`re seeing is probably from the car wash.

    By your logic you`re discrediting traditional waxes too.

    There`s been much more controlled tests done by members which show the benefits of synthetic products over traditional carnuba waxes.

  2. #17
    Ummm.... Ya..... TroyScherer's Avatar
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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Quote Originally Posted by rlmccarty2000 View Post
    Is OptiGuard Optimumís pro type coating? The one they sell now Optigloss doesnít get any love at all. I was just getting into hardcore detailing when they pulled OptiGuard. Has anyone used Optigloss? Pro only coatings kind of pi## me off, but if manufacturers want to sell to a limited clientele who am I to stop them? It must work as a business model.


    I have the old "
    Opti-Guard" which was the name before the name change to "Opti-Coat Pro". But my understanding is that there have been multiple updates tot the formula over the years. I have "Opti-Guard" on my truck and still love it. Really wish I could still use it.


    I have used a few tubes of Opti "Gloss-Coat". It really is extremely easy to use and apply. I have used it on a few sets of wheels but I tend to pull them off and do a decon and re-application yearly since it is my personal car and I run 2 sets of wheels. I have it on a few panels of paint and it is doing fine but its only been a year. I don`t really expect 2+ years out of it like I got from CQUK but it very well could. I feel like many people have gotten less than stellar results from
    "Gloss-Coat".
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  3. #18
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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    I love Zymol waxes. I haven`t done a bare test with Carbon, but at 2.5 months Glasur was showing some significant wear without being topped. 2 years is pushing it for a lot of coatings, so I would not be surprised after this amount of time to find it difficult or impossible to distinguish the additional performance on the coated side against the uncoated side. Eventually the surface degrades and you`ll get the performance of the recent topper.

    That being said, there is not a wax or a sealant that has come remotely close to the bare performance of the standard coatings I`ve tested. CQUK, McKee`s V2, Gyeon, Gtechniq, Blackfire, etc. If Polymer Net Shield, Fusso Coat, and FK1000P are the power hitters of durability in the sealants category - something like CQUK absolutely destroys them in visible durability. But I don`t need a coating to maintain a decent finish. A coat of FK1000P maintained with something like Gyeon Cure after washes, reapplying FK1000P on a regular 4-5 month basis - after two years the paint would still look fantastic while being protected at a high level without the costs of the professionally applied coating.

    If I ran the same test as you, I can`t see myself getting much utility out of the coating unless I was specifically the one performing the maintenance washes. That`s where I see the performance in action on the coatings I apply and where I can easily see the improvement against regular waxes or sealants and keep an eye on changing durability. If the paint shows no signs of heavier oxidation on the Carbon side and you`re equally as satisfied with both sides after two years, then it`s easy to understand why you`re questioning the extra cost of going with the coating. Can you name what coating the detailer went with?
    WaxMode - Product Testing & Reviews
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  4. #19
    dansautodetailing.com Stokdgs's Avatar
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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Quote Originally Posted by rlmccarty2000 View Post
    Is OptiGuard Optimum’s pro type coating? The one they sell now Optigloss doesn’t get any love at all. I was just getting into hardcore detailing when they pulled OptiGuard. Has anyone used Optigloss? Pro only coatings kind of pi## me off, but if manufacturers want to sell to a limited clientele who am I to stop them? It must work as a business model.
    Hey, Amigo !
    I dont think that this old model of Optimum from way before 2011 was ever classified as a "pro" only coating.. In fact, I think they were not even selling pro only coatings anyway back then..
    In 2008 I think, when I applied to Optimum to be on their "preferred vendor list" all I had to do was show them my business license, website, and my $1,200/year USAA Garageman Insurance policy ($1million in Liability)..
    Sorry, I am not that great on the dates...
    After that Opti-Guard or during that time frame, they came out with Optimum Opti-Coat 2.0, and I had a couple big 40 cc syringes of that also.. The last of that 2.0 is what is on my Black Grand Cherokee now and my Acura TL Type-S, and it is still a fabulous, no stress over, coating..
    Of course, all those earlier versions of Optimum are long gone, and I even remember when Gloss Coat came out, and I believe that is all they sell to the general public..

    I am still sad that Optimum chose to tie up their "preferred vendors" with huge mark ups on their latest and greatest coatings...
    It has always baffled me how Optimum thinks they can charge such a high price for their products to - everyone - when the Market never was and will never be the same for everyone.. Am I the only one who paid attention in that class??? Surely not...

    And then they try to tie their preferred vendors into "areas", "zones", protected so no one else will be able to offer that "pro" product there.... How 50`s and 60s` of them...

    Would it not be much better to MOVE all the product you can to help defray the costs to make it, etc., to have all these Optimum experts out there, etc.., to pay all the Employees, etc..?

    With the Internet of Things alone, all those old, tired, sad, dead, marketing protected areas, zones, business models died as far as Im concerned..

    So, some kid with no experience gets to buy the product, and absolutely knows nothing about it, tries to use it on a client`s car, its a disaster, now the client is on Optimum`s tail about this...

    So Optimum cannot figure out how to write something that goes with this pro only coating that states that only after a verified professional installer applies their most expensive coating, and there are problems that were not caused by the install, OR the Client, then they will (because they guarantee their pro coatings, right?) pay another verified professional installer to R&R the product to make it right, etc...

    This current business model they appear to use today, is also crazy.. I have a business acquaintance, who only installed clear bra and window tint, apply to Optimum to be a "pro" installer of their most expensive coating/s and stuff, and none of those guys had ever even picked up a machine much less knew how to use one, until they asked me to come down and teach them...

    Of course, they knew nothing about claybars, preparing the paint correctly and removing defects, etc..

    All they knew was, we wash it, wipe it down with another product to remove anything else, and apply soapy water and then the clearbra, window tint..

    I don`t know how successful they have been with selling the "pro" coating to their Clients, but I believe they had to pay a lot of money in those products, to get their own "protected zone/area"...

    Last I checked, they are doing pretty good.. I did have to go down and completely correct a new 2018 red Tesla for them that came from Tesla completely scratched from end to end.. Also had damage where they shoved the tail lights into the body too hard, missed the mark and damaged the paintwork, etc... It was pretty sad to see that for sure, Tesla knows nothing about assembling vehicles from scratch, and must employ people who know even less than they do, to put them together...

    And when the Client who bought this 2018 Red Tesla in San Francisco complained about the scratches, they told him -"we are selling you the BEST Electric Car in the World !!!" We don`t really care about the rest of it"

    Well, anyway, when I see them at SEMA at the end of this month, I will ask Optimum these questions and tell you what they said..
    Dan F
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  5. #20
    Rasky's Auto Detailing RaskyR1's Avatar
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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Quote Originally Posted by Stokdgs View Post
    Hey, Amigo !
    I dont think that this old model of Optimum from way before 2011 was ever classified as a "pro" only coating.. In fact, I think they were not even selling pro only coatings anyway back then..
    In 2008 I think, when I applied to Optimum to be on their "preferred vendor list" all I had to do was show them my business license, website, and my $1,200/year USAA Garageman Insurance policy ($1million in Liability)..
    Sorry, I am not that great on the dates...
    After that Opti-Guard or during that time frame, they came out with Optimum 2.0, and I had a couple big syringes of that also.. The last of that 2.0 is what is on my Black Grand Cherokee now and my Acura TL Type-S, and it is still a fabulous, no stress over, coating..
    Of course, all those earlier versions of Optimum are long gone, and I even remember when Gloss Coat came out, and I believe that is all they sell to the general public..

    I am still sad that Optimum chose to tie up their "preferred vendors" with huge mark ups on their latest and greatest coatings...
    It has always baffled me how Optimum thinks they can charge such a high price for their products to - everyone - when the Market never was and will never be the same for everyone.. Am I the only one who paid attention in that class??? Surely not...

    And then they try to tie their preferred vendors into "areas", "zones", protected so no one else will be able to offer that "pro" product there.... How 50`s and 60s` of them...

    Would it not be much better to MOVE all the product you can to help defray the costs to make it, etc., to have all these Optimum experts out there, etc.., to pay all the Employees, etc..?

    With the Internet of Things alone, all those old, tired, sad, dead, marketing protected areas, zones, business models died as far as Im concerned..

    So, some kid with no experience gets to buy the product, and absolutely knows nothing about it, tries to use it on a client`s car, its a disaster, now the client is on Optimum`s tail about this...

    So Optimum cannot figure out how to write something that goes with this pro only coating that states that only after a verified professional installer applies their most expensive coating, and there are problems that were not caused by the install, OR the Client, then they will (because they guarantee their pro coatings, right?) pay another verified professional installer to R&R the product to make it right, etc...

    This current business model they appear to use today, is also crazy.. I have a business acquaintance, who only installed clear bra and window tint, apply to Optimum to be a "pro" installer of their most expensive coating/s and stuff, and none of those guys had ever even picked up a machine much less knew how to use one, until they asked me to come down and teach them...

    Of course, they knew nothing about claybars, preparing the paint correctly and removing defects, etc..

    All they knew was, we wash it, wipe it down with another product to remove anything else, and apply soapy water and then the clearbra, window tint..

    I don`t know how successful they have been with selling the "pro" coating to their Clients, but I believe they had to pay a lot of money in those products, to get their own "protected zone/area"...

    Last I checked, they are doing pretty good.. I did have to go down and completely correct a new 2018 red Tesla for them that came from Tesla completely scratched from end to end.. Also had damage where they shoved the tail lights into the body too hard, missed the mark and damaged the paintwork, etc... It was pretty sad to see that for sure, Tesla knows nothing about assembling vehicles from scratch, and must employ people who know even less than they do, to put them together...

    And when the Client who bought this 2018 Red Tesla in San Francisco complained about the scratches, they told him -"we are selling you the BEST Electric Car in the World !!!" We don`t really care about the rest of it"

    Well, anyway, when I see them at SEMA at the end of this month, I will ask Optimum these questions and tell you what they said..
    Dan F
    Opti-Coat was the bomb when it first came out! The version I applied to a co-workers car in 2010 is still going strong today but unfortunately I can`t say the same for the versions after that. Cost explodes and performance goes down. Sad.
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  6. #21
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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Quote Originally Posted by RaskyR1 View Post
    Opti-Coat was the bomb when it first came out! The version I applied to a co-workers car in 2010 is still going strong today but unfortunately I can`t say the same for the versions after that. Cost explodes and performance goes down. Sad.
    I agree. Not sure what happened to it. As they tried to make it more ďuser friendlyĒ , itís performance diminished. I never had an issue installing the early versions.
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  7. #22
    dansautodetailing.com Stokdgs's Avatar
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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Oldz View Post
    I agree. Not sure what happened to it. As they tried to make it more “user friendly” , it’s performance diminished. I never had an issue installing the early versions.
    Thanks Chad for the reminder - it was called Opti-Coat 2.0 back when I purchased it.. This was after the Opti-Guard product was out for a while as I recall..
    Wow - that is amazing that your Client`s vehicle is still going strong with it, 8 years later !!! You did another great job back in 2010 !

    Yes, I also agree - the Opti-Coat 2.0 was easily the best product in application and results after..
    Too bad Marketing and Bean Counters probably ruined it..
    Dan F
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  8. #23
    Rasky's Auto Detailing RaskyR1's Avatar
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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Quote Originally Posted by Stokdgs View Post
    Thanks Chad for the reminder - it was called Opti-Coat 2.0 back when I purchased it.. This was after the Opti-Guard product was out for a while as I recall..
    Wow - that is amazing that your Client`s vehicle is still going strong with it, 8 years later !!! You did another great job back in 2010 !

    Yes, I also agree - the Opti-Coat 2.0 was easily the best product in application and results after..
    Too bad Marketing and Bean Counters probably ruined it..
    Dan F
    Actually, I think it was just Opti-Coat to start. Opti-Coat 2.0 was the watered down consumer version. I think the authorized only version went to Opti-Guard in mid 2011, then later it went to Opti-Coat Pro, and now its pro and Pro+....at least that`s how I remember it.

    I stopped messing with it late last year after the last revision on Pro+ became fussy and don`t even bother offering it as an option now.
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  9. #24
    Mike The Guz's Avatar
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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Quote Originally Posted by ttforcefed View Post
    I understand what u guys are saying but it refutes using ceramics especially given the crazy prices no?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Depends on what your expectations are for a coating.

    Quote Originally Posted by rlmccarty2000 View Post
    Is OptiGuard Optimum’s pro type coating? The one they sell now Optigloss doesn’t get any love at all. I was just getting into hardcore detailing when they pulled OptiGuard. Has anyone used Optigloss? Pro only coatings kind of pi## me off, but if manufacturers want to sell to a limited clientele who am I to stop them? It must work as a business model.
    Gloss is coat is middle of the road. Nothing special in my experience. Not as durable as Optimum claims it to be. I was left underwhelmed by it. It is easy to apply though.

    I ended up just giving a 20cc tube to a member on Autogeek to use as I have no intentions of using it anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by TroyScherer View Post


    I have used a few tubes of Opti "Gloss-Coat". It really is extremely easy to use and apply. I have used it on a few sets of wheels but I tend to pull them off and do a decon and re-application yearly since it is my personal car and I run 2 sets of wheels. I have it on a few panels of paint and it is doing fine but its only been a year. I don`t really expect 2+ years out of it like I got from CQUK but it very well could. I feel like many people have gotten less than stellar results from
    "Gloss-Coat".
    Keep us updated. I was underwhelmed by it`s performance. If anything 15 months is about all it lasted when I used it and it struggled to make it farther.
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  10. #25
    Detailers Workshop The Driver's Avatar
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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Explain to me why I still have high spots from CQ UK from 2013? Just because something isn`t as hydrophobic as it was initially doesn`t mean it, a. doesn`t work, b. is equivalent to much less superior product.

    This thread literally goes against science, Silica vs Wax...
    Rupes 21 MK II, Rupes 15 MK II, Rupes 21, Rupes LHR75e, Rupes Ibrid-L, Rupes LH18ENS, Flex PE-14-2, Dodo Juice V1, Dewalt 749X
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  11. #26

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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Eh, sounds like I lucked out when I tried the early versions of OptiCoat...starting to wonder if anything now on the market will be worth doing (compared to FK1000P).

    And yeah...those "Sold to Pros Only" product lines..[sarcasm]gee, ol` amateur Me would never understand how to use such stuff, huh?[/sarcasm]

    EDIT: my wondering about today`s coatings has nothing to do with the perceived experience of the OP to this thread. I`m simply unable to address that "test" with the info provided.
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  12. #27
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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Washing on a regular basis is 70% of the battle. Indoor vs outdoor is the next 20%. That last 10% might be the product. Coatings are great it certain use cases but I`ve yet to see any evidence they protect better than a regularly applied spray wax.

    Personally I`d like to see video of the car getting hosed down. Static beading shots aren`t very accurate.

  13. #28

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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    Washing on a regular basis is 70% of the battle. Indoor vs outdoor is the next 20%. That last 10% might be the product. Coatings are great it certain use cases but I`ve yet to see any evidence they protect better than a regularly applied spray wax.
    Rather different experiences/opinion here, especially in the functional (protection, durability) diffs with various paint treatments.

    IME very few LSPs provide satisfactory protection against etching, which I consider utterly crucial, but the few that do are virtual miracles compared to the also-rans (and also display near-miraculous durability). The OCW I use on my wife`s car provides virtually zero protection against etching (but hey, neither did M16 when it really counted ) and both it and the UQW/D156 need redone quite frequently compared to the LSPs I consider worthwhile. I`ve kind of gotten to where I just redo the Spray Wax almost every time I wash her car, at least on certain areas...easy enough since I always use some Drying Aid anyhow. Looks fine, but it`s not really protected compared to the other vehicles and some day I`ll probably redo it properly like the others.

    Now that I keep our vehicles mostly indoors they seldom need much of *anything* compared to the ones I kept outside. Maybe because of them being indoors and wearing the right LSP, I can go a long time without washing my vehicles (my wife`s is enough, thank you) and only an Autopian who`s working at it would ever notice.

    Not arguing, just showing another of those !YMMV! things..I know we Autopians are supposed to be detailing our vehicles all the time, but I`m over that, and my search for "how little can I get away with and still have a near-concours daily driver?" has taught me that some approaches can basically rewrite the rules (as I understood them).

    Looping back to the original topic- Even the best conventional LSPs I`ve used, the ones that have worked near-miracles for me, would never last two years on an outside 24/7 black vehicle that experiences winter (even though my choice of Drying Aid might make it appear that they did as long as you didn`t look closely). The wheels I`ve coated would probably be OK, but I`d be pleasantly surprised and I hear the older versions of OptiCoat I used were unusually durable.

  14. #29
    Swanicyouth's Avatar
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    2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    The funny thing about this isnít whether this or that product lasted - but the net result.

    What is the net result? OP can tell no difference. So what is the benefit of the coating to the vehicle over the long term demonstrated here? Nothing.

    Was the OP happier with the coated side? Nope. Could he ever tell the difference over 2 years. No. Is the OP just a dummy? No. Iíve came to the exact same conclusion he has.

    Itís basically a feel good thing to do IMHO. Itís the latest and greatest and mostly the costliest. It has to do something? Right?

    They will tell you it makes your car easier to clean.. But in the next breath tell you the coating is contaminated. If they are sooo resistant to dirt and nothing sticks to them - why are they so frequently contaminated?

    The bottom line is - you have to pass a mitt over a panel anyway to clean it. How much easier could it be? However, if I was detailing for dollars -Ďyou bet Iíd be all over coatings. Total cash cow.

    Then itís like - weíll you used this or that car wash - THATíS why you canít tell the difference. Really? Well, if the carwash negates the effect of the coating - why not just use that carwash? Shouldnít there be SOME difference visible?

    Nope.

  15. #30
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    Re: 2 year ceramic vs carnuba test

    Another monkey wrench: beading duration also depends on the car and the paint.
    Note I said ďcarĒ. My Volvo used to shed waxes in WEEKS, even good ones like Collinite. Contrarily, my Nissan would never stop beading.

    I agree with the consensus that thereís something else at play with the OPs observations, but after years of testing and playing with this stuff, Iíve learned you canít make observations on one car, one paint system, and then judge All Things.

 

 
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