Question about tipping after ceramic coating

[MattPersman]

I doubt they would actually have to use sanding to get the coating off but anything is possible. A new coating not even all the way cured yet should be able to be polished off

$400 doesn’t sound like enough to use A pro coating that would need sanding




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[Vanquish]

What coating was used on your vehicle? There are only a few professional grade coatings out there that you have to wet sand to remove. One being Crystal Serum Platinum. This is the highest level of coating we use at our shop. We would never do any of the things these guys have done without calling you every step of the way. But these coatings cost us around $200 wholesale. Most all other professional grade coatings run in this price range. Carpro, Gyeon, etc. So I know whatever coating they used on your vehicle is not of this caliber for a $400 detail. The other thing that doesn’t sound right. Is their lights. If they don’t have the proper lighting to show up every little imperfection in their shop. They don’t need to be doing this kind of work.

If you do decide to have the hood stripped and redone. Take it somewhere else. A lot of what you have wrote doesn’t sound right and I think you can get better service and advice elsewhere.

[BudgetPlan1]

Kinda sounds like a service/job where installer quickly got in over his head and started reaching for straws to correct, getting even further in the hole with each subsequent `fix` and ending up with sub-par result. Intentions and effort are nice but you`re paying a pro for results, not good intentions.

Maybe kinda stuck now as if they try to fix hood, perhaps deeper down the rabbit hole is where you`ll end up.

I`ve had a tendancy to do this when trying new things in my own garage that dont go as planned. In retrospect, I always think "I shoulda quit when I was only a bit behind" as opposed to forging ahead with poorly thought out subsequent `fixes` that, in the end, made things worse.

Perhaps the next (unfortunate) step is to get a fresh set of eyes on it, albeit another professional. Know that you know it`s there, your eyes will always be drawn to the remaining imperfections.

[Accumulator]

jwyfk- If the remaining flaws bother you, then they matter and might oughta be fixed. I don`t like saying this, but your description of how they went about it (inspecting on a ladder *after* the fact?!?) just, uhm....beggers belief. That`s not how competent people do stuff, whether Pro or not. At least they didn`t use that 1500 grit.

I wouldn`t let them touch it. I would grudgingly pay what you owe and not a cent more. I would find somebody who knows what they`re doing and have it redone right. But that`s just me and if you can live with how it is then hey, not like every vehicle`s gotta be Autopian for the world to keep turning.

[jwyfk]

The coating that was used is Optimum Paint Guard. It is a pro coating that can only be applied by people who were supposedly trained by Optimum. The detailer (not a body shop, by the way), used to offer Optimum Gloss Coat as their consumer grade $400 lowest cost option. Apparently, the manager of this business was unaware that the prep work involved was the same for all grades and thought Gloss Coat was just used similar to a wax without all the decontamination steps and buffing. I was told this is why it was only $400. Because of the mixed reviews about the longevity of Gloss Coat, I called Optimum to get their opinions about this. It was at this time, they had asked my why the detailer wasn`t using Optimum Paint Guard, which is the same price and comes with a 3 year warranty and could last 5 years if properly cared for. The detailer called them and confirmed. Apparently, this is really close to Opti-Coat without the 5 year warranty. I was later told that the manager would be raising the price on this service to reflect the amount of work necessary.

I agree with the comments stating that this guy was in over his head and that he meant well. He really tried to do a good job. He even mentioned that this coating job was his best one yet, but I immediately noticed the swirls. It kind of shocked me that wet sanding was necessary on a brand new car to remove water spots or scratches. As I mentioned earlier, it sounded like the other employees helped him, because he mentioned they said "it`s not coming out," in reference to a water spot on the hood. Last night I still noticed a couple of water spots underneath the coating, both on the hood and roof. This was in my garage with only a cfl bulb on the ceiling.

Maybe what I`ll do is call Optimum on Monday. My intention is not to reveal the name of this business to them, but to get their opinion about what I should do. Don`t get me wrong, the car looks good. I just hate the fact that these swirls and defects will be trapped underneath the coating for years. I`d rather live with the swirls, rather than have him damage my paint to the point where I`d need a respray on the hood.

[Accumulator]

jwyfk- I really like the way you`re going about this! And confident that you`ll do what`s best for you.

I will say that you`re a, uhm...person of more generous spirit towards your fellow man...than I am. And that`s sure not intended as a criticism!

[The Guz]

It is under warranty so Optimum should take care of it but nobody ever truly knows with Optimum. You may want to find another optimum authorized installer and have them fix it with the warranty. Call and speak with Dann Williams at optimum and he will get to it. He takes the time to answer questions.

I doubt the coating needs to be sanded off. There has never been any mention from Optimum that their pro level coatings require sanding. Good luck and hopefully you get it resolved.

[jwyfk]

jwyfk- I really like the way you`re going about this! And confident that you`ll do what`s best for you.

I will say that you`re a, uhm...person of more generous spirit towards your fellow man...than I am. And that`s sure not intended as a criticism!

My patience and understanding can be a weakness at times. Everyone has to learn somewhere, but I wish my brand new car wasn`t part of that learning process. It`s a lot easier for me to complain to a big faceless corporation than it is to tell an employee at a small business that the work he thought he did a great job on has some problems.

When I pointed the swirls out to him, he took his microfiber and started wiping the surface of the hood. I don`t know if it was an act or if he just didn`t understand where the swirls were from. Today I found a thick whitish line on the side of the car underneath the coating. It almost looks like the polish or compound wasn`t completely removed and he coated on top of it. There is compound residue in all the gaps. On the roof I found compound residue in a water channel on the edge. This wasn`t even a gap between panels, just an area where water can run the length of the roof, so it won`t drip on you when you open the door. If there`s compound in that area, then obviously it wasn`t coated properly, or maybe he just coated on top of the residue.

It is under warranty so Optimum should take care of it but nobody ever truly knows with Optimum. You may want to find another optimum authorized installer and have them fix it with the warranty. Call and speak with Dann Williams at optimum and he will get to it. He takes the time to answer questions.

I doubt the coating needs to be sanded off. There has never been any mention from Optimum that their pro level coatings require sanding. Good luck and hopefully you get it resolved.

I really hope you`re right. Optimum has been great with me on the phone the two times I`ve called them. If anyone who doesn`t have an eye for this sort of thing would look at my car, they`d think it looks great. However, those same people would`ve had the same opinion if I had just washed my car without having any kind of work done. Most people don`t notice water spots or scratches.

I think someone who spends this kind of money, even if it`s on their lowest price pro coating, shouldn`t have to deal with amateurish mistakes from a pro coating installer. If I accept this the way it is, it`s going to make me mad every time I see those things on my car for the next 3 years. Between the coating, extra Optimum products I`ve purchased, tax and tip, I`ve spent over $600. That`s a lot to someone like me. I had also planned to have a more expensive coating applied when this one starts to degrade in a few years.

[mobiledynamics]

jwyfk -

I did not read any reply in detail, but for starters, where/how/did you find this detailer ? Word of mouth, optimum dealer lookup, etc.
How did you qualify the detailer for your detail. Did you go by price, by referral, etc.
I only ask because IME, many authorized details on *all coatings* via dealer lookup, I would never go to...

Word of mouth is the most reliable...if not being familar with their work on friends, etc cars

There is one ~authorized high end coating dealer~ in my area that at one point used Peanut Oil and old used white socks to dress trim......and this was back in maybe 2011 or so where decent products if not applicators existed !

[rlmccarty2000]

The coating that was used is Optimum Paint Guard. It is a pro coating that can only be applied by people who were supposedly trained by Optimum. The detailer (not a body shop, by the way), used to offer Optimum Gloss Coat as their consumer grade $400 lowest cost option. Apparently, the manager of this business was unaware that the prep work involved was the same for all grades and thought Gloss Coat was just used similar to a wax without all the decontamination steps and buffing. I was told this is why it was only $400. Because of the mixed reviews about the longevity of Gloss Coat, I called Optimum to get their opinions about this. It was at this time, they had asked my why the detailer wasn`t using Optimum Paint Guard, which is the same price and comes with a 3 year warranty and could last 5 years if properly cared for. The detailer called them and confirmed. Apparently, this is really close to Opti-Coat without the 5 year warranty. I was later told that the manager would be raising the price on this service to reflect the amount of work necessary.

I agree with the comments stating that this guy was in over his head and that he meant well. He really tried to do a good job. He even mentioned that this coating job was his best one yet, but I immediately noticed the swirls. It kind of shocked me that wet sanding was necessary on a brand new car to remove water spots or scratches. As I mentioned earlier, it sounded like the other employees helped him, because he mentioned they said "it`s not coming out," in reference to a water spot on the hood. Last night I still noticed a couple of water spots underneath the coating, both on the hood and roof. This was in my garage with only a cfl bulb on the ceiling.

Maybe what I`ll do is call Optimum on Monday. My intention is not to reveal the name of this business to them, but to get their opinion about what I should do. Don`t get me wrong, the car looks good. I just hate the fact that these swirls and defects will be trapped underneath the coating for years. I`d rather live with the swirls, rather than have him damage my paint to the point where I`d need a respray on the hood.

I would definitely tell the Optimum rep the name of the installer. I doubt the installer went to the class to be authorized to install the pro coating. Now maybe someone in the shop went to the class, maybe. This stuff isn’t rocket science but it does take time and skill to do the job correctly. Optimum should have a list of the people authorized to install their coatings, not just a list of the businesses that can install the coating, there is a big difference. You have way more patience than me (a good thing). I would be asking for a full refund and be posting negative reviews on every social media site I was affiliated with. You paid good money and you should accept nothing other than full satisfaction with the job done. The guys are hacks. I would not let them touch your car again even if they say they can remove the coating and fix the swirl/waterspot problems.

[Stokdgs]

Jwyfk --
Oh boy, it just gets worse... I am so sorry this happened to you...
Now you are finding evidence of more poor quality work and obviously no quality control..

Having used Optimum coatings on many vehicles including my own, I can tell you that none have ever required sanding, and all require a few weeks to fully cure.. This means they are completely dry from the bottom to the top when cured..

No one in their right mind, would have sanded off a coating that was barely dry and for sure not cured.. Do they have IR lights in their shop to speed up the curing process?

Yes, the best thing now is to call Optimum, you will have to tell them the name of the Shop so they can look them up and verify this shop is on their list of Authorized Sellers/Detailers of their Pro Line Coatings.. I just hope to heck these guys are on that list... If not, I don`t know how you will be able to get warranty work done from Optimum, however that works.. Good luck with this..

You have mentioned a couple of times, the Owner of the Shop not knowing how this all works when Coating a vehicle, etc... That should have been another warning, these guys are not good...

Next time you go looking for a Detailer, vett the heck out of him first... You need a list of people who had their vehicles coated last, pictures of their vehicles, their numbers so you can call them and ask them how it went, etc...

You need the Shop to show you in detail, pictures of all their work, coating or not...

Have them take you out to look at the shop... Is it clean? Is it all out of control?? Dirty? Do they have a lot of really good lights including many on stands that are used to see the sides, and tops of all the vehicle???

Look carefully at all vehicles in the shop getting worked on... Do they look good???

You need to ask them how many years, decades, etc., have they been in business....

Do they have and use a Total Paint Thickness Meter??? Are they going to measure your vehicle BEFORE they work on it, and as they work on it???

Do you get a lot of eye contact from the one in charge?? Do you feel that he is on the level??

It is sad that pretty much anything I purchase anymore, I have to really get myself educated on the product, before I make a purchase, because so many people are just liars and products are just junk copies of what used to be made in all the great places, like USA, Japan, Korea...
I have to know more about the stuff than they do, and once I do, I can very easily spot the misrepresentation, etc., that happens all the time..

I have been an Amazon Prime member for over 15 years, and long ago, there was nothing but great products on their website... Now, its flooded with the worst chinese knock off crapola I have ever seen... One poor guy bought supposedly 6 NGK sparkplugs for his Acura.. Came in what looked like the correct NGK box.. 4 of the sparkplugs fit the engine just fine.. The last 2 needed the next BIGGER socket size to be able to install them!!!! Fake Chinese Knock Offs !!!! Its that bad sometimes...

Good luck with this!!!!
Dan F

[mobiledynamics]

Stok. Same here. Used to spend quite a few thousands on our Prime. Slowly over the last 2-3 years, it`s gone down dramatically. With that said, was said purchase of plugs from Amazon direct, or fulfilled by Amazon but 3rd party.....

Nothing still beats prime for convenience. Delivery same day....Saturday AND Sunday......

[fly07sti]

Where are you located? Might be a lot easier to get you pointed it the direction of a competent Detailer. Can you post some pictures of your ride?

[jwyfk]

where/how/did you find this detailer ? Word of mouth, optimum dealer lookup, etc.
How did you qualify the detailer for your detail. Did you go by price, by referral, etc.
I only ask because IME, many authorized details on *all coatings* via dealer lookup, I would never go to...

Word of mouth is the most reliable...if not being familar with their work on friends, etc cars

There is one ~authorized high end coating dealer~ in my area that at one point used Peanut Oil and old used white socks to dress trim......and this was back in maybe 2011 or so where decent products if not applicators existed !

There aren`t many detailers in my area that really stand out. Reviews online are always mixed anyway and most people who are satisfied usually don`t post a review. This will be the third time I`ve had bad luck. I had originally planned to polish and seal the car myself, but found out about ceramic coatings about a month ago, so I started looking into businesses in my area that did these coatings. The business I found was the only one who did pro coatings that looked legitimate. All the other ones were consumer grade. I looked on Optimum`s website and they were on the list of authorized dealers.

It`s not a business that`s strictly for detailing. They do car stereos, wheels, tint and other modifications.

I would definitely tell the Optimum rep the name of the installer. I doubt the installer went to the class to be authorized to install the pro coating. Now maybe someone in the shop went to the class, maybe. This stuff isn’t rocket science but it does take time and skill to do the job correctly. Optimum should have a list of the people authorized to install their coatings, not just a list of the businesses that can install the coating, there is a big difference. You have way more patience than me (a good thing). I would be asking for a full refund and be posting negative reviews on every social media site I was affiliated with. You paid good money and you should accept nothing other than full satisfaction with the job done. The guys are hacks. I would not let them touch your car again even if they say they can remove the coating and fix the swirl/waterspot problems.

He told me he went to training and they`re definitely authorized dealers. I really don`t know the circumstances of what happened. I thought he would be the only person touching my car, because he`s the only one authorized to do the coating, but they have others who helped. Any one of them could have done something wrong. He/they ran into problems and ended up having to rush to finish the job at the end, staying after hours to do so. It`s possible the manager was on his case, I don`t know.

Do they have IR lights in their shop to speed up the curing process?

No, nothing like that.

Yes, the best thing now is to call Optimum, you will have to tell them the name of the Shop so they can look them up and verify this shop is on their list of Authorized Sellers/Detailers of their Pro Line Coatings.. I just hope to heck these guys are on that list... If not, I don`t know how you will be able to get warranty work done from Optimum, however that works.. Good luck with this..

I already looked them up beforehand. I have a receipt and the coating warranty has been registered to the VIN of my vehicle. I don`t see how this is a warranty issue, though. Their coating didn`t fail.

You have mentioned a couple of times, the Owner of the Shop not knowing how this all works when Coating a vehicle, etc... That should have been another warning, these guys are not good...

I never talked to the owner of the shop. What specifically are you talking about him "not knowing" how all this works? He seemed knowledgeable when I talked to him, was very patient and spent a lot of time with me, which is why I gave him a decent tip. The rest is just speculation and observation after the fact.

Next time you go looking for a Detailer, vett the heck out of him first... You need a list of people who had their vehicles coated last, pictures of their vehicles, their numbers so you can call them and ask them how it went, etc...

If I lived in California or Florida, I`m sure I`d have my pick of the cream of the crop. All my research is done online and I have no way of doing some of the things you suggest. I don`t know anyone.

Do they have and use a Total Paint Thickness Meter??? Are they going to measure your vehicle BEFORE they work on it, and as they work on it???

I did ask him this in advance and he didn`t have one at this particular location, however the same business at another location has one. A car shouldn`t be wet sanded without one, in my opinion.

Do you get a lot of eye contact from the one in charge?? Do you feel that he is on the level??

Absolutely. He`s a good guy, but he`s just young and inexperienced.

It is sad that pretty much anything I purchase anymore, I have to really get myself educated on the product, before I make a purchase, because so many people are just liars and products are just junk copies of what used to be made in all the great places, like USA, Japan, Korea...
I have to know more about the stuff than they do, and once I do, I can very easily spot the misrepresentation, etc., that happens all the time..

I have been an Amazon Prime member for over 15 years, and long ago, there was nothing but great products on their website... Now, its flooded with the worst chinese knock off crapola I have ever seen... One poor guy bought supposedly 6 NGK sparkplugs for his Acura.. Came in what looked like the correct NGK box.. 4 of the sparkplugs fit the engine just fine.. The last 2 needed the next BIGGER socket size to be able to install them!!!! Fake Chinese Knock Offs !!!! Its that bad sometimes...

I did a lot of research into the product, and the business had mostly favorable reviews online. It`s impossible to tell which location and who these reviews are for, though. You`re seeing reviews for a company, not an individual.

You`re right about the problem with fake Chinese knock offs, especially when it comes to critical parts like spark plugs. There was a warning years ago about fake Bosch fuel pumps. That`s pretty scary. I bought some Aquapel recently and it seemed like all of the sellers on eBay and Amazon were selling fake Chinese Aquapel. I called Aquapel and they were of no help giving me a list of authorized sellers. Their only suggestion was to have me pay full retail from their online store. My solution was to buy NAPA branded Aquapel from eBay that I was certain the Chinese didn`t bother to copy.

Where are you located? Might be a lot easier to get you pointed it the direction of a competent Detailer. Can you post some pictures of your ride?

I`m hesitant to do this on a public forum, but might through PM eventually. My intention isn`t to bash this business online. The car looks beautiful and it would be difficult to capture the defects without a decent camera.

[Accumulator]

I`m hesitant to do this on a public forum, but might through PM eventually. My intention isn`t to bash this business online. The car looks beautiful and it would be difficult to capture the defects without a decent camera.

Eh, any defects that show up *at all* in pics are so severe that some of us would just *freak* if we saw an "after" with such issues!

Be careful that your patient, generous spirit doesn`t get you fleeced and your car trashed.

The stuff you`ve posted about that shop is *so* egregiously awful that I have to remind myself "no, he`s not running a joke on us, that really did happen to his new car.." I mean..if somebody made this up it`d sound overdone and exaggerated. Yes, it *is* that bad. The incompetent idiots who trashed my `93 Audi (for the original owner) were *infinitely* better than what you`ve described, at least their work always left the car looking great (until they ran out of clearcoat).