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  1. #1

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    Trouble with coating

    Not quite 1 year ago, (but soon) I applied Mkees 37 coating to my car. I washed it the other day after a road trip and didn`t notice any benefits. The water did not bead as I would have expected, I have tar and other contaminants on the car which I will have to clay etc. The product says it can last up to two years. It is my daily driver but it is garage kept otherwise. I did put a light coat of wax on before the fall but I am not sure if that would matter. Could it have been something I did or did the product just fail? Anyone have any luck with this? Or a similar situation?

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    dansautodetailing.com Stokdgs's Avatar
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    Re: Trouble with coating

    Quote Originally Posted by agtjamesb007 View Post
    Not quite 1 year ago, (but soon) I applied Mkees 37 coating to my car. I washed it the other day after a road trip and didn`t notice any benefits. The water did not bead as I would have expected, I have tar and other contaminants on the car which I will have to clay etc. The product says it can last up to two years. It is my daily driver but it is garage kept otherwise. I did put a light coat of wax on before the fall but I am not sure if that would matter. Could it have been something I did or did the product just fail? Anyone have any luck with this? Or a similar situation?
    Without knowing in detail, your process to correct, wipe down, and apply the coating, we can not accurately respond to your question..

    In the meantime, in my experiences with coatings, I have found that most coatings, if applied correctly with correct pre-cleaning beforehand, will get enough gunk in them afterwards, that will change the way they act after awhile, than when just applied. I am talking years here..

    Please advise what you used to wash the car the other day after your road trip..

    My experiences with coatings on my personal vehicles has found that nothing will revive a coating better than a good wash or 2 with Carpro Reset..

    To be clear, I don`t work for Carpro, I hardly use any of their products, and have absolutely no affiliation with the company or anyone who sells their products..

    This is the first product (Carpro Reset) I have ever found (after using a lot of professional car wash soaps first), that actually brought back the coating characteristics when all other products did not..
    Dan F
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  3. #3
    BudgetPlan1's Avatar
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    Re: Trouble with coating

    Quote Originally Posted by agtjamesb007 View Post
    Not quite 1 year ago, (but soon) I applied Mkees 37 coating to my car.

    ...

    The product says it can last up to two years. It is my daily driver but it is garage kept otherwise.
    You`ll never know for sure how durability will really turn out until you actually try it in your climate and your situation. Some things can be estimated by finding others experiences in similar conditions and usage but that`s still just an educated guess.

    We have 3 cars with considerably different usage patterns; all protected with same set of products.

    Car 1 will likely get to 3 years (if not longer) before needing to be completely redone.

    Car 2 will likely never need to be redone.

    Car 3 will get to 2 years at the most before needing to be redone.

    Car 1 is about 5500 miles a year, no freeway, sits outside from April thru November but only really driven daily November thru April, short trips, no freeway.

    Car 2 is daily driver in nice weather, April thru November, usually no-rain days only, always garaged, 5500 miles a year, rarely freeway.

    Car 3 is year round daily driver, generally always garaged, 20k miles a year, 95% freeway.

    All are in NE Ohio.

    Same protection, varying usage far different likely outcomes. Freeway use, especially during winter, is very, very hard on a vehicles finish.

    Having seen a lot of faded cars last time I was in Arizona, I`m guessing they have a whole different kind of nightmare to deal with, entire different set of circumstances to cope with.

    Florida apparently has acid-filled Love Bugs that can etch paint if left for too long...another nightmare entirely.

    Point being, no claims listed on a box can even begin to adequately predict longevity.

    It`s the ultimate YMMV scenario.

    That said, it took applications of Gyeon Tar and Gyeon Iron to peel winter off of the vertical panels of our most heavily used vehicle and restore the hydrophobic properties of the underlying coating.

    Your coating may be similarly `buried` under grime...or it`s reached the end of its useful life.
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  4. #4

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    Re: Trouble with coating

    You got the “up to” length

    Outside is a cruel world for car finishes and products put in your car. Everyday things are landing on your car accumulating on your coating.

    Might be there still might be long gone. Each time you touch your vehicle it is slightly worn down

    If this was your first wash then probably really bad off and loaded up

    Coatings needs pretty much more maintenance and stricter maintenance to continue their performance level.


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  5. #5

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    Re: Trouble with coating

    I would get a tar remover and iron remover and do a thorough decon wash with it. Then also get carpro reset too as also is written. If you don`t getting the coating revived after a couple of uses with this. Then I would think of either topping it with some coating topper or call it and polish and start over with the choice of lsp. The waxing I think did not given you any benefits from. But with a thorough decon wash after the wax had been sitting on for a while would not hurt the coating either.

    The tar remover and iron remover from Gyeon and Carpro and gtechnic for an example is made for be used on coatings. To handle the contaminants that build up over time even on coatings. If you are maintain it weekly with something like carpro reset it takes longer to build up contaminants on the coating. If you every 6-8 washes use a tar remover and iron remover on the parts that gets most contaminants you keep the coating fresher longer and the embedded contaminants is going to be less of them. If you have a problem with water spotting and take care of them in a narrow window when you get them. Something like carpro Spotless water spot remover could help with clogging the coating water behavior.

    When it`s really bad with embedded contaminants and the above chemicals does not working for you. There is a clay bar from 22ple that I heard from budgetplan that works to clay on coatings with.

    Why I always recommend this decon washes both on coatings and some sealants is that you don`t need to apply them so often as you would be without it. And with ceramic coatings you have a very high chemical resistant. The thing to be carefull with is alkaline products with ph level above 11-14 depending on the coating you have. The acid resistant is down to ph level 1-2 which I don`t have seen any detailing products that is so acidic.

    I have used Gyeon Wet Coat on 2 cars this winter. And have used tar remover on every wash I made which was every 3 weeks as least between them and up to 6 weeks at most. Used a strong prewash foam and then tar remover and then an 2bm wash with carpro reset. And used an iron remover at the ned of the winter. Was getting 2 months of good protection from it and did noticed just a little degrade under that time that made me reapply the Wet Coat. So even with a very low sio2 content I experienced a strong chemical resistant on it. This is in a harsh winter weather in Sweden which is like the northern USA and Canada wheather which uses alot of road salt on the roads.

    Waiting still to get the oppertunity to apply the Polish Angel Master Sealant when I have the place to do it. It`s a combo of wax and sealant and coating in it that I fell for the looks many have gotten with it.

    So test and buy a coating friendly tar remover and iron remover. And also get carpro reset or gyeon bathe or and use as a car soap. Then if you want to use a drying aid or QD product get one that is compatible with coatings also.

  6. #6

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    Re: Trouble with coating

    Quote Originally Posted by agtjamesb007 View Post
    Not quite 1 year ago, (but soon) I applied Mkees 37 coating to my car. I washed it the other day after a road trip and didn`t notice any benefits. The water did not bead as I would have expected, I have tar and other contaminants on the car which I will have to clay etc. The product says it can last up to two years. It is my daily driver but it is garage kept otherwise. I did put a light coat of wax on before the fall but I am not sure if that would matter. Could it have been something I did or did the product just fail? Anyone have any luck with this? Or a similar situation?
    Sometimes it would be difficult for us to give you feedback based on what you have told us. A few factors that I probably would consider is, did you wash it yourself? Or did you run it through the automatic carwash? While those two things obviously would come into play, I think this particular product failed you. You actually got more months out of the product than I did. And I will assume that you applied it correctly. It would be hard not to. While not trying to slam the product too much, I also feel that they should be held accountable for not only the successes, but the fails. They may be quick to tell you that maybe your technique was not "dialed in" correctly.

    But the reality is, that some coatings just don`t live up to the expectations. They are not the only one. All you can do is research the product before you buy it next time.
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  7. #7
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    Re: Trouble with coating

    Quote Originally Posted by MattPersman View Post
    Coatings needs pretty much more maintenance and stricter maintenance to continue their performance level.
    I`m kinda torn on this point, mostly based on the fleet vehicles that I`ve coated and then left untouched for 6-8 months/20-25K miles. The ones done with coatings that turned out to excel in self cleaning always look pretty darn good despite a rainstorm being the only maintenance they get. From about 5ft, they always look freshly washed and glossy, aside from the back ends.

    On personal cars that see regular maintenance I think I tend to notice `slightly dirty` and diminished hydrophobics but to your average person, they always look clean and freshly washed. That said, regular maintenance isn`t really much, Gyeon Bathe, occasional (OK...frequent) use of booster as drying aid, some Gyeon Foam when I wanna have some fun. With everything coated (paint, trim, wheels and tires) my maintenance and time spent doing it is far less than when they were`t coated.

    Another plus is that I`m no longer scared of a morning rain/afternoon sun incident leaving permanent waterspots (despite coatings reputation for water spotting, I`ve never experienced it) as well as the luxury of "Eh, I`ll clean that bird bomb off tomorrow..." laziness with no worry of permanent damage.

    For me, coatings have allowed me to maintain suitable appearance (to me) with far less effort, YMMV.

    That said, I am questioning the use of a more permanent solution (coating) on a black, 20k+ mile a year car. While the coating is holding up well and doing a great job with the `good` paint, the past winter and 85-100 mile daily freeway commute is taking it`s toll as far as chips, blemishes from physical impacts, both big and small. I consider the hardness of coatings pretty much irrelevant in all but the slightest `towel marks` only sense of protection and it would be nice if I could maintain self-cleaning and hydrophobics with a quality sealant that allows for quick and easy removal/correction and re-application of LSP. I just dunno enough about quality sealants (yet) to know if that is a viable solution for this particular usage scenario.
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    Re: Trouble with coating

    The only solution to front end rock chips for me has been to put on a full front clear bra that goes up the hood part way and the front fenders part way, so they all match in 1 line across the hood and fenders.. The entire front bumper is covered, and all lights have a thicker piece of clear bra installed and that not only protects them better, it must be UV treated because I have not seen any problems with the lenses behind the plastic..

    It is expensive for sure, but it sure means a lot to know I will never have to repaint the front end for rock chips or have to live with them..

    When I lived in the Seattle area, I saw lots of cars that had front ends that looked like they had been hit by sand blasting because of the constant rain and driving fast and close to people on the concrete freeways...

    There are no poor clear bra installers in Seattle, that is for sure..
    Dan F
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  9. #9

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    Re: Trouble with coating

    Quote Originally Posted by BudgetPlan1 View Post
    I`m kinda torn on this point...[mixed feelings about coatings..]...Another plus is that I`m no longer scared of a morning rain/afternoon sun incident leaving permanent waterspots (despite coatings reputation for water spotting, I`ve never experienced it) as well as the luxury of "Eh, I`ll clean that bird bomb off tomorrow..." laziness with no worry of permanent damage.

    For me, coatings have allowed me to maintain suitable appearance (to me) with far less effort, YMMV.
    That could be a cut/paste of my experiences with FK1000P.

    ... it would be nice if I could maintain self-cleaning and hydrophobics with a quality sealant that allows for quick and easy removal/correction and re-application of LSP. I just dunno enough about quality sealants (yet) to know if that is a viable solution for this particular usage scenario.
    You can guess what I`d suggest BUT, OK..I gather my experiences are somewhat unusual, not that I`ve figured out why.
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  10. #10

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    Re: Trouble with coating

    Before I put the coating on last year I did everyting to the car. Decon (Nanolex iron remover), clay, polish etc, as it is my understanding that the secret lies in the prep. The car was washed with blackfire shampoo and I only ever wash it myself. What would you recommend as a tar remover? Someone once sold me Stoner bug and tar remover, and I never used it. It says dont use on plastic (even if it is painted) and I feel it is just oven cleaner in a different can. I could be wrong.
    It is possible there is grime on top...
    I hardly see a point to a coating if it requires more work...

  11. #11
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    Re: Trouble with coating

    I thought the blackfire shampoo contained polymers in it. If it does that could also be masking the properties of the coating.

    Stoners tarminator works well on tar. There is always CarPro Tarx.

    I would also consider a chemical decon wash with an iron remover, tar remover and a strong wash with Reset or possibly something a little stronger like gyeon foam or gtechniq citrus wash.
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    dansautodetailing.com Stokdgs's Avatar
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    Re: Trouble with coating

    Quote Originally Posted by agtjamesb007 View Post
    Before I put the coating on last year I did everyting to the car. Decon (Nanolex iron remover), clay, polish etc, as it is my understanding that the secret lies in the prep. The car was washed with blackfire shampoo and I only ever wash it myself. What would you recommend as a tar remover? Someone once sold me Stoner bug and tar remover, and I never used it. It says dont use on plastic (even if it is painted) and I feel it is just oven cleaner in a different can. I could be wrong.
    It is possible there is grime on top...
    I hardly see a point to a coating if it requires more work...
    I looked up Blackfire Shampoo and it does say it contains "Crystal" polymers and tuff suds...

    My coating choice has not been labor intensive after the 1st and 2nd applications over a period 6 years now.. (1st application = 4+ years, 2nd application, remove, prep, and repeat, is going on 2 years)
    All I ever have to do is wash it with Carpro Reset, blow it dry with my metro master blaster, use a soft microfiber for any little water it missed, and I`m done..

    The Crystal Pearl Black Metallic paint is very clear, glossy, and repels a lot of dirt just fine.. The Grand Cherokee is a 2009..

    A couple of times, I experimented with spraying Optiseal on a soft microfiber and wiping it down, after the wash.. That`s it..

    Some coatings sell a bunch of extra things to put on it afterwards.. I do not know the reason for that, but it may suggest the coating is not very good and needs a lot of extra help, or it may be marketing 101, or a combination of both???

    I actually love not having to do anything to the paintwork on my 2 vehicles a lot..
    Back in 2012, when I had 5 vehicles, it was mandatory that they all got coated, so I could have more free time to work at my Detailing business..
    Dan F
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    Re: Trouble with coating

    If the BF shampoo is the same stuff that came with their original All Finish Paint Protection kit, it was *HARSH* at least IME. I mean "strip your LSP off" harsh. I used it up on wheels and undercarriages, no need for Wheel Cleaners with that stuff around.

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    Re: Trouble with coating

    Quote Originally Posted by agtjamesb007 View Post
    Before I put the coating on last year I did everyting to the car. Decon (Nanolex iron remover), clay, polish etc, as it is my understanding that the secret lies in the prep. The car was washed with blackfire shampoo and I only ever wash it myself. What would you recommend as a tar remover? Someone once sold me Stoner bug and tar remover, and I never used it. It says dont use on plastic (even if it is painted) and I feel it is just oven cleaner in a different can. I could be wrong.
    It is possible there is grime on top...
    I hardly see a point to a coating if it requires more work...
    Gyeon Tar or Carpro TarX is 2 coating friendly tar removers. If you see some tar spots after those the stoner tar remover would get them off. And iron remover is also a great way to go with when decon wash it. Then carpro reset or gyeon bathe or any other car soap that don`t leave anything behind as wax sealant and glossenhancers. The car soap you have used seems to be interfearing with the coating surface tension.

    I don`t see it as more work than any other LSP. Since I do decon washes on them to. The benefit of a coating is you get longer between the polish and reapply any wax or sealant. In the part of the cleaning your car.
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    dansautodetailing.com Stokdgs's Avatar
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    Re: Trouble with coating

    Quote Originally Posted by agtjamesb007 View Post
    Before I put the coating on last year I did everyting to the car. Decon (Nanolex iron remover), clay, polish etc, as it is my understanding that the secret lies in the prep. The car was washed with blackfire shampoo and I only ever wash it myself. What would you recommend as a tar remover? Someone once sold me Stoner bug and tar remover, and I never used it. It says dont use on plastic (even if it is painted) and I feel it is just oven cleaner in a different can. I could be wrong.
    It is possible there is grime on top...
    I hardly see a point to a coating if it requires more work...
    Agtjamesb007 ---

    Ok, now we know what you did - but please advise, what you did right before you started the coating application, ok ??

    What is the name of the product you used for the final wipe down ?? Then, did you use clean microfiber, did you use lots of them, did you use 1 folded, and use all 4 sides, etc.. ?? Did you do the final wipedown outside or inside a garage, etc..??

    Did you apply the coating inside or outside a garage , etc.. ??

    Dan F

 

 

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