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  1. #1

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    Semi Permanent solutions; can you do just one panel?

    I have a metallic black Camaro that has a replaced bumper from a few years ago after someone backed into me and drove off in a parking lot. I went through my insurance and found what I thought was a reputable body shop, but they used some inferior paint/clear and now my rear bumper has swirls after every few washes. It is very annoying as the rest of the car is just fine after washing with Optimum no-rinse repeatedly.

    I was thinking about getting something like Pinnacle or Optimum Gloss to put a semi-permanent coating on this bumper so that I`m not buffing it every other month, but I really know nothing about these products or how difficult they are to install, etc. Can anyone provide some recommendations on the products that may be a good solution for me that are the the most foolproof and easiest to install? Is there anything wrong with putting it on just one bumper?

    I guess it`s worth nothing I have a Porter Cable that`s a gazillion years old, so I have some some detailing experience in the past, although these days I like simple and typically just stick with Optimum no-rinse and Opti-Seal. Don`t mind putting in a little time on a semi-perm sealant though if that will look good and I`m likely not to screw anything up during the process. Thanks for the help and recommendations.

    Also, I am in DFW. It`s been a while since I posted on this forum, but I remember a long time ago there was a big Dallas crowd. So, if anyone recommends a detail shop that might do this all for me for decent pricing, feel free to let me know.

  2. #2
    dansautodetailing.com Stokdgs's Avatar
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    Re: Semi Permanent solutions; can you do just one panel?

    Tuffluck -
    Welcome back !
    I remember a bunch of really nice guys from DFW a couple of Forums ago, I don`t think they are all here any longer..

    Bumpers are painted with a "flex agent" in the paint, so that if the bumper is flexed by someone bumping into it, the paint wont crack and fall off, etc...
    A factory painted bumper is done in a manner that makes it always look great and it matches the rest of the paintwork pretty darn good.

    When its painted by a body and paint shop, the work is not as good sometimes, but it should never be so soft that it gets scratched up just washing it...
    I have never heard of that or seen anything like that before..

    Do you get the same wash induced marks when you use a good car wash soap and lots of water ? Or is it just when you use Optimum No Rinse ?
    Nothing you can change in the wash process of that rear bumper to quit getting marks in it ??

    Was it always doing this from the get-go ? Can you talk that Shop that did the work and ask them why this is happening now and what kind of warranty they have on their work ?

    I suppose you could try to put something on it that would be harder and hopefully not have problems, but I like to always get to the source of what needs to be dealt with and work it out so I never have to deal with it again..

    If you decide to work on it with your Porter Cable, just remember that plastic does not dissipate heat very good compared to metal, and too much heat in one spot will get that paint soft and could damage it..

    There is a really nice guy on here that just helped someone in your area I believe.. He posted on that other thread you posted on about holograms, etc...
    I think he is called Dave425 ???

    Good luck with this..
    Dan F

  3. #3

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    Re: Semi Permanent solutions; can you do just one panel?

    tuffluck- Welcome back!

    Seeing this Q on both threads, I couldn`t resist responding even though you probably won`t like my proposed solution...I`m gonna come right out and say what I think Stokdgs was implying- Have it repainted with harder clear.

    The coating might help a *little* and sure you can coat (only) one panel, but IMO that`s not the real fix. Easy for me to spend your money though, assuming the shop won`t just freebie it the way they oughta.

  4. #4

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    Re: Semi Permanent solutions; can you do just one panel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    tuffluck- Welcome back!

    Seeing this Q on both threads, I couldn`t resist responding even though you probably won`t like my proposed solution...I`m gonna come right out and say what I think Stokdgs was implying- Have it repainted with harder clear.

    The coating might help a *little* and sure you can coat (only) one panel, but IMO that`s not the real fix. Easy for me to spend your money though, assuming the shop won`t just freebie it the way they oughta.
    Yeah--I figured this is probably the only real solution. I actually took Stokdgs advice and contacted the shop already. It`s been a few years but he responded and told me to bring it by next week. I`m not sure I`m going to get much out of that conversation since it`s been a while, but at least he`s willing to take a look.

    I have only used Optimum no-rinse btw. Actually there is a place in Dallas that does hand wash/dry. It`s not as careful as what I would do myself, but it is well recommended actually and one time I chose to take it there about a year ago. They did a great job, but it completely FUBAR`d the bumper (while the rest of the paint looked just fine), and that`s when I knew the clear was poor quality. Since then I`ve only hand washed, but like I said, after several washes, I can still see swirls appear again.

    Is there a possible BETTER way to wash it and keep it swirl free for longer? I`m not expecting a washing end all be all solution, but maybe there is something more delicate I can do to keep the polish work to a minimum? I have a strong feeling the drying process is likely when the swirls occur. I would let it dry naturally, but with a black color it leaves too many water spots...

    Thanks for the feedback!

  5. #5

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    Re: Semi Permanent solutions; can you do just one panel?

    tufluck- Heh heh, if you can wash *any* paint on the car with just ONR without marring it you`re doing better than I ever could!

    Heh heh#2, you don`t even want to discuss how *I* have to wash to avoid marring, and that`s on hard clear too.

    But on a positive note, maybe that shop will pull/refinish/reinstall it either gratis or for a small fee. I myself would probably offer to pay the labor to remove/reinstall it as a goodwill gesture.

    I trust you`ve CD-tested all your wash/dry media. If it`s OK, then any drying-induced marring comes from residual dirt on the paint so you just gotta get it cleaner and that oughta solve that. You could blow most of the water off (I use both an AirWand and the compressor) and/or "blot" it dry using a very soft and plush (NOT a WWMF) Drying MF that`s been lightly misted with the ONR or a QD. Try washing and drying with distinctly different motions/direction-of-travel and maybe you can see which process (or both?) is truly causing the issue.

  6. #6
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    Re: Semi Permanent solutions; can you do just one panel?

    I just had my bumper repainted and my body shop has a lifetime warranty on paint. They did an excellent job and the paint matches perfectly. I see no reason why you could not correct your bumper (or have a detailer do it) then apply a coating such as CQUARTZ just to the bumper. CarPro sells a 10ml bottle of CQuartz for $19.99 which would be more than enough to do a bumper.

  7. #7

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    Re: Semi Permanent solutions; can you do just one panel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    You could blow most of the water off (I use both an AirWand and the compressor) and/or "blot" it dry using a very soft and plush (NOT a WWMF) Drying MF that`s been lightly misted with the ONR or a QD. Try washing and drying with distinctly different motions/direction-of-travel and maybe you can see which process (or both?) is truly causing the issue.
    Are you not a fan of waffle weave towels?



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  8. #8
    dansautodetailing.com Stokdgs's Avatar
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    Re: Semi Permanent solutions; can you do just one panel?

    Tuffluck --

    Glad to hear the Body Shop is going to look at their work ! Great news ! Hope they can find the cause and make the problem go away..

    Having had way too many Black vehicles, including BMW Jet Black vehicles and corrected way more Black Paint than the law allows, the best way for me to help avoid making defects is to use a very slippery soap, like Optimum Car Wash and Car Pro Reset, a really thick, chenille mitt, lots of water, and a Metro Master Blaster to remove as much water - before - I ever touch the paint...

    Then, when I do touch that Black Paint, it is with the softest microfiber I have and I spray something like Optimum Opti-Seal and wipe very, very, lightly and evenly, just touching the paint to remove whatever water is left...

    Good luck at the Body Shop !
    Dan F

  9. #9

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    Re: Semi Permanent solutions; can you do just one panel?

    I’m a little confused? Am I understanding that you polish out the “ swirl “marks and after washing one time they re appear? If you are talking about just wash marks then I can buy the soft clear. But if you are seeing real buffer swirls, then you haven’t polished them out, just covered them up. Or is it possible you are seeing sanding marks under the clear? Just curious.

  10. #10
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    Re: Semi Permanent solutions; can you do just one panel?

    Quote Originally Posted by tuffluck View Post
    I have a metallic black Camaro that has a replaced bumper from a few years ago after someone backed into me and drove off in a parking lot. I went through my insurance and found what I thought was a reputable body shop, but they used some inferior paint/clear and now my rear bumper has swirls after every few washes. It is very annoying as the rest of the car is just fine after washing with Optimum no-rinse repeatedly.

    I was thinking about getting something like Pinnacle or Optimum Gloss to put a semi-permanent coating on this bumper so that I`m not buffing it every other month, but I really know nothing about these products or how difficult they are to install, etc. Can anyone provide some recommendations on the products that may be a good solution for me that are the the most foolproof and easiest to install? Is there anything wrong with putting it on just one bumper?

    I guess it`s worth nothing I have a Porter Cable that`s a gazillion years old, so I have some some detailing experience in the past, although these days I like simple and typically just stick with Optimum no-rinse and Opti-Seal. Don`t mind putting in a little time on a semi-perm sealant though if that will look good and I`m likely not to screw anything up during the process. Thanks for the help and recommendations.

    Also, I am in DFW. It`s been a while since I posted on this forum, but I remember a long time ago there was a big Dallas crowd. So, if anyone recommends a detail shop that might do this all for me for decent pricing, feel free to let me know.
    Service King??

  11. #11
    DaveT435's Avatar
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    Re: Semi Permanent solutions; can you do just one panel?

    Quote Originally Posted by tuffluck View Post
    Yeah--I figured this is probably the only real solution. I actually took Stokdgs advice and contacted the shop already. It`s been a few years but he responded and told me to bring it by next week. I`m not sure I`m going to get much out of that conversation since it`s been a while, but at least he`s willing to take a look.

    I have only used Optimum no-rinse btw. Actually there is a place in Dallas that does hand wash/dry. It`s not as careful as what I would do myself, but it is well recommended actually and one time I chose to take it there about a year ago. They did a great job, but it completely FUBAR`d the bumper (while the rest of the paint looked just fine), and that`s when I knew the clear was poor quality. Since then I`ve only hand washed, but like I said, after several washes, I can still see swirls appear again.

    Is there a possible BETTER way to wash it and keep it swirl free for longer? I`m not expecting a washing end all be all solution, but maybe there is something more delicate I can do to keep the polish work to a minimum? I have a strong feeling the drying process is likely when the swirls occur. I would let it dry naturally, but with a black color it leaves too many water spots...

    Thanks for the feedback!
    What part of the metroplex? I`m in Arlington. Since the majority of body shops deliver the cars with swirls in the new paint I doubt they will do anything. I would be more than happy to take a look at it. It is possible the scratches are just getting filled in with polishing oils then the oils are getting washed away in a wash or two. You can coat just one panel and the SPS coating I use is one of the harder on the market so it would give you more scratch resistance than many if the consumer grade coatings. Also I`m sure after doing a coating job I would have enough left to do your bumper cover. Let me know if I can be any help.
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  12. #12

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    Re: Semi Permanent solutions; can you do just one panel?

    Quote Originally Posted by finick View Post
    Are you not a fan of waffle weave towels?
    I was...until I tried some Plush MF Drying Towels, which I like *INFINITELY* better. If nothing else, I can dry more gently and any residual dirt has a (somewhat) better chance of getting caught up/surrounded and cushioned by all those tiny strands of MF, rather than just sitting on top of the WW (whether down inside the "waffle divots" or not it`s still just sitting there waiting to mar.

    Not hating on WWMFs, I have lots of `em...but I simply *LOVE* the plush ones. Only downside is that the plush ones are more prone to linting so you might have to replace them more often (and buy ones that don`t lint right off the bat).

  13. #13

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    Re: Semi Permanent solutions; can you do just one panel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike lambert View Post
    I’m a little confused? Am I understanding that you polish out the “ swirl “marks and after washing one time they re appear? If you are talking about just wash marks then I can buy the soft clear. But if you are seeing real buffer swirls, then you haven’t polished them out, just covered them up. Or is it possible you are seeing sanding marks under the clear? Just curious.
    Gets confusing for those of us who were schooled that "swirlmarks come from buffers" AKA "buffer swirls", huh? As best I can tell "swirls/swirlmarks" is now a generic term for marring that`s not RIDS and/but was probably caused by the wash/dry process.

  14. #14

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    Re: Semi Permanent solutions; can you do just one panel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    I was...until I tried some Plush MF Drying Towels, which I like *INFINITELY* better. If nothing else, I can dry more gently and any residual dirt has a (somewhat) better chance of getting caught up/surrounded and cushioned by all those tiny strands of MF, rather than just sitting on top of the WW (whether down inside the "waffle divots" or not it`s still just sitting there waiting to mar.

    Not hating on WWMFs, I have lots of `em...but I simply *LOVE* the plush ones. Only downside is that the plush ones are more prone to linting so you might have to replace them more often (and buy ones that don`t lint right off the bat).
    That’s fair. Considering I do primarily rinselsss washing, I’ve always had the habit of just drying my car with regular 16x16 towels. one wrung out to pull the majority of the solution off the panel and ideally any dirt that could potentially be encapsulated, the other to apply my drying aid and finish the job. This has always worked really well for me.

    I find that using waffle weaves leads me to using several towels in the end because they saturate so quickly. I do enjoy using them after a traditional wash, because I can sheet the majority of the water off the surface.. but even then, that just means a regular towel could do the job just as well.

    I recently bought a couple Eagle Edgeless towels, and a minx, and using the eagle to do my final buff was really nice. I can definitely see the appeal of those super duper 1100gsm towels.


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  15. #15

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    Re: Semi Permanent solutions; can you do just one panel?

    finick- I spray the Drying Aid on since the panels are almost dry by that time.

    I use pretty many towels period...just seems to go that way. FWIW, I`ve found that I don`t like *really* heavy GSM-weight MFs for many jobs. They`re OK for that final buffing off of the Drying Aid, but that`s about it IMO.

    I can`t do the Sheeting Rinse with the water delivery system in my current shop, so I have to blow most of it off with that AirWand. Luckily I like it...I did the Sheeting Rinse at my previous shop where the water pressure/spigots were conducive to it.

    The main thing is that we`ve found what works for us
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