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  1. #16
    dansautodetailing.com
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    Re: Car has been corrected too many times what products do you reccomend

    Lonnie -

    A Paint Thickness Gauge is really a misnomer from the get-go since all but the most expensive one only measure Total Thickness of the material on that spot only.. And then this is still a not accurate number if the gauge cannot be calibrated, etc...

    I use mine to give me a look at the total thickness all over a panel, and I get an average idea in microns of that panel and based on how much work is needed vs how much is being paid for vs this total thickness average, I then tell myself I am going to use these products to try to take off as little as possible to achieve the goal for that work...
    And as I have said before, I try to not go more than 1/2 a micron of material removed...

    So you can say that the best worth of these gauges is to show you the Baseline and then if you measure in microns, show you how much you are removing off the top which is of course the clear coat or paint if its single stage, etc...

    The gauge will also show pretty accurately where there has been body work because those areas are always way higher numbered than areas around them...
    So that means there is a lot of bondo, primer, and possibly even extra paint on that place, but again, you cannot ever be sure...

    If you want to be the most accurate on the layers of material on a panel, you need to look at one of these --- https://www.autopia-carcare.com/defe...l#.Ws5b7S5zb3g

    Only around $2,700 plus tax and shipping !!!
    I put this on my list to Santa every year...
    Dan F
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  2. #17
    Mike The Guz's Avatar
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    Re: Car has been corrected too many times what products do you reccomend

    You could get away with something like CarPro Essence Plus. It`s a jeweling polish that fills in minor defects but leaves behind SiO2 (quartz) protection. Can be maintained with something like CarPro Reload, Gyeon Cure or GTechniq C2V3.

    I would think CarPro Essence would be ok on a finishing pad just as mwoywood pointed out with HD Speed as Essence will also fill in defects. Then top it with Essence Plus.
    Competition Ready Team 1929 Bentley
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  3. #18

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    Re: Car has been corrected too many times what products do you reccomend

    Quote Originally Posted by Stokdgs View Post
    .. if the gauge cannot be calibrated, etc...
    Bit of a chore that, at least with my PhaseII.

    ..I try to not go more than 1/2 a micron of material removed...
    That`s not much, I seem to take off more than that when correcting anything significant. Heh heh, many guys don`t think twice about taking off half a MIL!

    ... but again, you cannot ever be sure...
    The Jag has five areas that were repainted during its original build, and another one presumably from point-of-import. I`ll probably discover another one/more eventually...sigh..
    F[/QUOTE]

  4. #19
    dansautodetailing.com
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    Re: Car has been corrected too many times what products do you reccomend

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    Bit of a chore that, at least with my PhaseII.



    That`s not much, I seem to take off more than that when correcting anything significant. Heh heh, many guys don`t think twice about taking off half a MIL!



    The Jag has five areas that were repainted during its original build, and another one presumably from point-of-import. I`ll probably discover another one/more eventually...sigh..
    F
    [/QUOTE]

    El Accumulator !

    The little AAA battery in my gauge will last longer if I remove it when the gauge is put away..

    Wow I don`t know anyone who would want to remove 1/2 Mil = 12.7 microns off of Factory, who knows how much of it is left, Paintwork.. But I DO Know this - anyone removing that much Factory paintwork is Not going to be doing this very long before the OH- NO Alarm goes off..
    And sadly, the owner of the vehicle will be in the exact place the OP of this thread is today...

    I know, I know, decades ago before thickness gauges came out, we all just spun the wheel and hoped for the best...
    But also back then, there WAS more paint on panels and that had to help out a lot...

    Now we know that the Factory is putting less of that crap-ola water based paint on everything, so I still just take it very cautiously on Client vehicles and even my own..

    Other than a short run of really damaged Jet Black BMW vehicles that actually looked a dull dark gray, because they were so destroyed, I have been very Blessed to not have to break out the Lake Country Foam Wool pads.... well, except for those dang airplanes......and that destroyed Porsche Cayenne....
    Dan F

  5. #20
    LashingStanley's Avatar
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    Re: Car has been corrected too many times what products do you reccomend

    Quote Originally Posted by estcstm3 View Post
    by soft pad would a uro tec white count?
    Yes, uro-tec white would definitely count. You could even get away with uro-tec yellow as long as you keep your pressure light. What makes HD Speed amazing for enthusiasts is that it`s RIDICULOUSLY easy to use and IME cuts less than most finishing polishes. Guys have tried using HD Speed with heavy pressure and microfiber cutting pads to remove defects in one step, but that is WAY outside the realm of what HD Speed was meant to do. It`s also great because it can be applied to the entire car before removing.

    I`m a professional, but I zip over my truck once every 3-4 months with HD Speed and a uro-tec white pad to remove any traffic film, lightly bonded contaminants, and to bring out an unbelievable amount of gloss. Sometimes I top it with FK1000p but usually I just top it with Optimum Car Wax once a month in between my weekly washes.

    Another bonus is you don`t have to tape off any of your plastic or rubber trim.

    Like Guz mentioned, Essence would be a GREAT option as well. I would say HD Speed & Essence aren`t typical AIO`s in the sense that the abrasives they use are closer to a ULTRA-fine polish rather than products like Meguiars D166, D151, Menzerna 1-step polish & wax which are better suited for 1-step corrections where you are trying to maximize defect removal and leaving behind wax in one step. These products have much higher cutting ability than Essence & HD Speed but they sacrifice finishing ability and overall gloss.

    Whether your an enthusiast, professional, or driveway detailer, you don`t know what your missing if you haven`t tried HD Speed. It`s too cheap not to try.
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  6. #21

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    Re: Car has been corrected too many times what products do you reccomend

    Stokdgs- Heh heh, IME *every* tool that runs on disposable batteries oughta be stored without `em in place....even if I don`t always do it I just *HATE* that PhaseII ETG though, hard to use is a ridiculous understatement and the others I`ve tried were all easy-peasy. I even sent it back for a checkup as I was certain it was defective! OK, end of rant.

    On the Clearcoat Removal, that just goes to show that you know people who know what they`re doing

    Ford says no more than 2/3mil over the life of the car, which is a fair amount, but when I was shopping for the Crown Vic I gauged a *LOT* of `em that`d had well over 1.5mils removed! More than that was taken on my `93 Audi before I got it.

    Wonder if/how others will respond on this issue; the last time I recall it coming up I said how I see a *LOT* of clearcoat failure in my area and can often see exactly how it was buffed to cause that. People implied that I was full of it and they never see that *ever*....OK...but I sure see it every week and I don`t really pay attention to other people`s paint.

  7. #22

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    Re: Car has been corrected too many times what products do you reccomend

    Quote Originally Posted by LashingStanley
    Sometimes I top..[HD Speed].. with FK1000p ...
    Hey, does that work OK?!? I`d have thought that the natural waxes in Speed would cause issues...I`ve never had any problems using FK1000P on top of anything, but I`ve been kinda careful about what combos I tried too (always used synthetic waxes under it).

    I gather that Essence works OK under FK1000P too, right?

    And, again, somebody please school me if I`m wrong....the abrasives in those are ?what?...in-between KAIO and ZAIO? Like, almost functionally nonabrasive? I`ve *never* gotten any correction at all out of any of my AIOs, but the ZAIO did micromar exterior plastics that other abrasives work fine on.

  8. #23
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    Re: Car has been corrected too many times what products do you reccomend

    For some PTG readings, check out the numbers here https://www.autopia.org/forums/machi...tml?highlight=

    I took readings before, after sanding, and after polishing. The pics with the numbers may be hard to read, so try to increase your font size (or viewing percentage, or whatever it`s called so you can "magnify" what you are seeing on screen).
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  9. #24
    dansautodetailing.com
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    Re: Car has been corrected too many times what products do you reccomend

    Quote Originally Posted by JustJesus View Post
    For some PTG readings, check out the numbers here https://www.autopia.org/forums/machi...tml?highlight=

    I took readings before, after sanding, and after polishing. The pics with the numbers may be hard to read, so try to increase your font size (or viewing percentage, or whatever it`s called so you can "magnify" what you are seeing on screen).
    Hermano !
    Thanks for the link to your previous post - unfortunately, it says now that all those great pics are disabled...
    Dan F

  10. #25
    dansautodetailing.com
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    Re: Car has been corrected too many times what products do you reccomend

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    Stokdgs- Heh heh, IME *every* tool that runs on disposable batteries oughta be stored without `em in place....even if I don`t always do it I just *HATE* that PhaseII ETG though, hard to use is a ridiculous understatement and the others I`ve tried were all easy-peasy. I even sent it back for a checkup as I was certain it was defective! OK, end of rant.

    On the Clearcoat Removal, that just goes to show that you know people who know what they`re doing

    Ford says no more than 2/3mil over the life of the car, which is a fair amount, but when I was shopping for the Crown Vic I gauged a *LOT* of `em that`d had well over 1.5mils removed! More than that was taken on my `93 Audi before I got it.

    Wonder if/how others will respond on this issue; the last time I recall it coming up I said how I see a *LOT* of clearcoat failure in my area and can often see exactly how it was buffed to cause that. People implied that I was full of it and they never see that *ever*....OK...but I sure see it every week and I don`t really pay attention to other people`s paint.
    Hermano Accumulator !

    Remember a while back when the process was to get the paint "Perfectly Corrected" etc..., and not a thought about how much clear coat was removed ?

    We all saw that phase go by and now, I bet a lot those beautiful vehicles have way less to no clearcoat left because they kept doing this - because - they kept scratching up the paint every year...

    I counsel all my Clients to please not ask me to make it perfect, if they know that another year of the Brown Bear Car Wash is going to bring us pretty much close to where we just started, and then I remove more clear coat again...

    It is just not worth it, IME, long term to do this to factory paintwork.. Would rather take just a little off each time, and hopefully the Client will do better at washing in between - or bring it to me to wash it...
    Dan F

  11. #26
    LashingStanley's Avatar
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    Re: Car has been corrected too many times what products do you reccomend

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    Hey, does that work OK?!? I`d have thought that the natural waxes in Speed would cause issues...I`ve never had any problems using FK1000P on top of anything, but I`ve been kinda careful about what combos I tried too (always used synthetic waxes under it).

    I gather that Essence works OK under FK1000P too, right?

    And, again, somebody please school me if I`m wrong....the abrasives in those are ?what?...in-between KAIO and ZAIO? Like, almost functionally nonabrasive? I`ve *never* gotten any correction at all out of any of my AIOs, but the ZAIO did micromar exterior plastics that other abrasives work fine on.
    HD Speed does contain non-diminishing abrasives and is suppose to have about the same amount of cut as HD Polish+

    After several years of using them both on a daily basis I`d consider HD Polish+ to be at 3 for cutting ability and HD Speed at 2.5

    There is definitely non-diminishing abrasives in HD Speed that if you really wanted to, is capable of removing scratches and swirls. When used with a cutting pad, slow arm speed, higher machine speed, and heavy pressure it`s certainly capable of permanent paint correction.

    BUT, if you use it with light pressure, soft polishing pads, and slightly faster arm movement, it becomes more of a non-abrasive cleaner wax like KAIO.....except HD Speed is easier to use, removes FAR easier than anything (even FK1000p), and doesn`t stain trim (even if it`s allowed to dry).

    I personally have had no issues with topping FK1000p over HD Speed. I do use Wolfgang Uber as a quick detailer to remove any polishing oils or residue left behind by HD speed (even though it removes easier than virtually any other product on the market and never leaves behind visual polishing oils).

    Truth is, I honestly have no clue if natural waxes in HD Speed interfered with the bonding of FK1000p since I use OCW every month or so.
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  12. #27

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    Re: Car has been corrected too many times what products do you reccomend

    Stokdgs- I really feel for you pros; it`s easy enough for me to just "correct it and that`s that" but when "regular people" are added to the
    mix the whole "knowing when to say when" gets critical.

    I was just surprised that you can get good results taking off that little clear. The last time I ETG`ed a seemingly minor spot-correction I had to take off (IIRC) nearly five microns and even then I can still see residual marring without really working at it. I took at least half a mil off the Tahoe when I got it, almost certainly more in many areas (didn`t even bother ETGing it after a little while, just hammered it like Barry Theal until I could stand to look at it and even then... it still looks awful to me).

    The guy who was "detailing" the `93 Audi didn`t stop until he hit the pearl layer in places and still left holograms all over it...dark blue car that shows flaws too hence my constant [griping] about it.

  13. #28

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    Re: Car has been corrected too many times what products do you reccomend

    LashingStanley- Ah, thanks for the added info. Turns out I still have more ZAIO than I`d thought, but I`m gonna keep an eye peeled for more posts about using FK1000P on top of it.

    Oh, and..heh heh..no surprise that Speed buffs off easier than the FK1000P; some seem to think the FK is kinda tough, not that I ever noticed. Well, it *is* harder than, say...Souveran.

  14. #29
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    Re: Car has been corrected too many times what products do you reccomend

    you have your obvious glaze + wax/sealant option

    essence (on soft pad) or essence+ might work ok (I think that was mentioned before but I briefly scanned)


    you can also look into Kamakazi Artificial Clear Coat + one of their coatings on top (this is the route I will go later on if I keep my car)


    Brandt K.

  15. #30

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    Re: Car has been corrected too many times what products do you reccomend

    Quote Originally Posted by 512detail View Post
    ..you can also look into Kamakazi Artificial Clear Coat + one of their coatings on top (this is the route I will go later on if I keep my car)
    Huh, so many new products these days! Never heard of the Artificial Clear Coat..

    EDIT: Hey, what do you mean "if you keep your car"?!?

 

 
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