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  1. #31

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    Re: Still getting holograms despite careful washing. Frustrated

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post

    -While others have done correction with M205 (hi, Kevin!), I only found it OK as a genuine Finishing Polish, something to use after something *else* has done all the visible correction
    The creation of the marks may be a mystery, but I`d put in a vote for the M205 not really working well on your GTI`s hard paint.

    I have a black MK6 GTI and the paint is pretty hard, but I have been able to polish out all but the worst marks, but I had to use something more aggressive than a finishing polish . I use my crude, but trusty Harbor Freight DA along with 5" LC pads. The LC white Flat or Thin Pro pads paired with a swirl remover/mild compound would knock out wash induced swirls and finish down LSP ready. I also tried a finishing polish on the stronger orange pads, but it wouldn`t cut as well or as fast.

    Sadly the product I`ve used aren`t produced anymore and I`m now in the process of trying out others to see what will work the best.
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  2. #32

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    Re: Still getting holograms despite careful washing. Frustrated

    Quote Originally Posted by Desertnate View Post
    The creation of the marks may be a mystery, but I`d put in a vote for the M205 not really working well on your GTI`s hard paint.

    I have a black MK6 GTI and the paint is pretty hard, but I have been able to polish out all but the worst marks, but I had to use something more aggressive than a finishing polish . I use my crude, but trusty Harbor Freight DA along with 5" LC pads. The LC white Flat or Thin Pro pads paired with a swirl remover/mild compound would knock out wash induced swirls and finish down LSP ready. I also tried a finishing polish on the stronger orange pads, but it wouldn`t cut as well or as fast.

    Sadly the product I`ve used aren`t produced anymore and I`m now in the process of trying out others to see what will work the best.
    Thanks everyone. I think this was the most frustrating wash/detail yet.

    There were a couple panels that were previously marred, and my intention was to just polish those few panels, but when I discovered holograms on the panels I previously corrected in post 10, I was rather aggravated.

    I hadn`t noticed any marring in those panels until today when I washed the car. The same two bucket method I outlined in the OP. It had been a month since I washed the car and it was quite dirty, so all I can think of is that despite taking great care, the car was dirty enough to where some of that dirt scratched the paint during the wash process.

    Moreover, I bought all new MF towels. I used Cobra 530 towels an Griots wax removal mf towels.

    I previously had good success with Optimum Polish. The M205 was just frustrating to work with. I thought I got somewhere, but after doing a panel wipe with CQuartz and a mf towel it looked worse!!! So I polished again and it was better but not by much.

    For a while I could`ve sworn the paint cleaner and towels were marring the paint, but like I said all my mf towels are brand new.

  3. #33

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    Re: Still getting holograms despite careful washing. Frustrated

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post

    -This is from *washing*, right? You`ve narrowed it down to that..panels OK, wash car, panels no longer OK..you`re calling the issue "holograms", but I consider those to be a uniquely *rotary-induced* phenomenon
    For the past 3-4 weeks since the last time I washed the car, I`ve Inspected those panels almost daily. In the mean time the car got rained on and a bit dirty, however today was my first opportunity to wash the car.

    I noticed it after the car was washed, when I got it in the garage with the LED lights. I have no other idea how they got there. A buffer didn`t touch the paint until after I noticed it.

    Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

  4. #34
    Mike The Guz's Avatar
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    Re: Still getting holograms despite careful washing. Frustrated

    Have you tried using a more aggressive product such as a compound to see if in fact the paint is on the hard side? If not then you could possibly be dealing with soft finicky paint that M205 will not do a good job at finishing out.
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  5. #35

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    Re: Still getting holograms despite careful washing. Frustrated

    I have some compound, but that might be overkill. Plus it gets really dusty. (Another complaint with the 205 as well)

    VW paint is pretty hard. I had better luck with Optimum, so I might try that again,or research something else.

    What`s really frustrating me is the reemergence of holograms on the same panel I very carefully washed and polished on two separate occasions. The issue with the M205 just caused me more annoyance,but at least that is easily solved by buying something else.

    Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

  6. #36
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    Re: Still getting holograms despite careful washing. Frustrated

    THe Menzerna polishes were developed for hard German paints. Might be worth a look. But, if you have experience with optimum and wanna go that route, that makes sense too.
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  7. #37

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    Re: Still getting holograms despite careful washing. Frustrated

    Menzerna has been on my list to try. I just wish they didn`t keep changing the name of all their products!

    Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

  8. #38
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    Re: Still getting holograms despite careful washing. Frustrated

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill1975 View Post
    Menzerna has been on my list to try. I just wish they didn`t keep changing the name of all their products!

    Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk
    Agreed. Dunno why they keep doing that.
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  9. #39
    dansautodetailing.com Stokdgs's Avatar
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    Re: Still getting holograms despite careful washing. Frustrated

    Bill1975--
    I have said a lot on the subject already..

    I never let any product - compound of any level of cut - polish of any level of polishing - dry out when I use it..
    If you are using any product and it dries to dust, that is not enough time for it to work long enough.. I also hate that dust flying all over everywhere that has to now be removed..

    For example, Meguiars 105 - an excellent heavy duty compound dries up almost instantly and wants to make a big mess that is hard to remove..

    If I just start out with a primed pad that is a little moist from a spray of water, pad conditioner, and then perhaps stop and spray the area if it starts to dry out too fast, that compound can correct the heck out out of anything and actually finish down really good..

    It is the only thing I ever use on scratched to heck headlights and tail lights, and they all come out beautiful - if you keep the surface moist so the product can do its work and break down to almost nothing ...

    The few GTI`s that I have Detailed all had hard paint.. Hard paint needs the right product to be able to correct it, or more time, with another product to possibly correct it..
    All German cars have hard paint except for the Jet Blacks of the world.. And some Jet Blacks are harder than others.. BMW in my experiences has the softest Jet Black..

    Detailing will Always be having to adjust everything to that particular vehicle`s paint on that panel, that day.. It will Never be a series of time worn steps that always work without fail.. There is no such thing as - "so many "passes" will be enough to make it perfect each time.. You have to be looking at it while you`re working on it and evaluating the results as they happen, and adjust that time on it to go longer, shorter, etc...

    If I was in Texas I would be happy to come up with my tools and help you out..
    Dan F
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  10. #40

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    Re: Still getting holograms despite careful washing. Frustrated

    Dan - Thank you. As I have only used a polisher a handful of times, and until now, only with one product, I expect using any new product means the results will vary, and I just have to be able to adjust things. I did have better results with the Optimum polish I used before, so in this case I don`t think the M205 is worth the effort or frustration. And I`m happy to try different products and techniques.

    What really frustrates me is the reemergence of holograms, albeit light ones after careful washing and polishing. As I said before, the only thing I can think of is that the car is sufficiently dirty that they are happening regardless of how carefully I wash and dry. VW paint may be hard to correct but it seems easy to scratch!

  11. #41

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    Re: Still getting holograms despite careful washing. Frustrated

    I see you live in Texas and one thing I have seen with Menzerna polishes is they can get finicky when the humidity is high. So if that is the case where you live or you washing the car in the same place you are polishing I would take a second thought about Menzerna polishes. Then if you are satisfied with Optimum Hyper Polish you can test out Hyper Compound. Then getting pads that are 2 steps up in cutting ability than the orange LC pad. Do a test spot with Hyper Polish and the more coarse cutting pad. Wipe the polishing oils off with carpro Eraser and inspect with lighting. If the marring still exists step up to Hyper Compound and do the same and if it still is not enough cut the more coarse cutting pad and HC.

    I still recommend to go with Sonax Cutmax. And for be safe go with Sonax Perfect Finish since it is great on soft finicky paints. Then tune it in with the orange pad or the more coarse cutting pad.

    Since your clearcoat seems to be on the rock hard side. After spreading the product with first dabbing it out and then on the speed 1 to get a even layer. Go for it and set the speed to 5-6 and work with slow armspeed and do 4-5 passes and inspect. This is deminishing abrasive and work it for more passes is not going to do much. When the abrasive is deminished the cut is done. Do this as test spot but just test on the same test spot twice so you don`t abrade to much on the same spot. The M205 is non deminishing abrasive and can be worked longer and ad a little water when you see it starts to dust. A more cut in the pad you may do get the cut you are after. But with a compound you do the same but faster. If you have a finishing pad you can maybe see if you have a soft finicky paint if it clears up with Hyper Polish which is both non deminishing abrasive and deminishing abrasive. Don`t over work HP then you don`t have the benefit of the deminishing abrasive. For soft finicky paints what I have heard of is deminishing abrasive great on. Here are some Sonax PF, Carpro Reflect, Rupes Keramik and 3D Polish +
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  12. #42

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    Re: Still getting holograms despite careful washing. Frustrated

    Quote Originally Posted by Stokdgs View Post
    I never let any product - compound of any level of cut - polish of any level of polishing - dry out when I use it..
    My thoughts exactly!
    If you are using any product and it dries to dust, that is not enough time for it to work long enough.. I also hate that dust flying all over everywhere that has to now be removed..
    For example, Meguiars 105 - an excellent heavy duty compound dries up almost instantly and wants to make a big mess that is hard to remove..

    Now *there* I`m not sure whether I agree or not?!? Some products do have a *VERY* short work-time (e.g., M105), so for them to "work long enough" I stop, clean/reprime pad/resume many, many times, which can take forever to get things done.

    If I just start out with a primed pad that is a little moist from a spray of water, pad conditioner, and then perhaps stop and spray the area if it starts to dry out too fast, that compound can correct the heck out out of anything and actually finish down really good..
    Heh heh, I do stuff like that too, but hesitate to recommend it ("don`t try this at home, kids!") because it can sometimes render the product *very* aggressive when the [stuff you spray on] replaces the original Polishing Oils.

    There is no such thing as - "so many "passes" will be enough to make it perfect each time.. You have to be looking at it while you`re working on it and evaluating the results as they happen, and adjust that time on it to go longer, shorter, etc..
    Right! And I suggest forgetting about what you see people say/do in this regard on the internet. "I gave this two passes and look how perfect it is!" shouldn`t influence *anybody* in any way IMO. YMMV and it takes as long, and as many passes, as it takes.

    If I was in Texas I would be happy to come up with my tools and help you out..
    Which would probably get this all sorted out in no time

  13. #43

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    Re: Still getting holograms despite careful washing. Frustrated

    Bill1975- Thanks for the additional info.

    With M205, and some Menzerna products too (I hate PO106FF for this reason!), the oils dissipate over time (sometimes a long time) causing flaws to reemerge, but it sounds like your issues are coming from the wash/dry. Understandable as marring-free washes are a *LOT* harder than most could ever imagine.

    Doing the panel wipe is smart, sounds like you`re seeing what`s really there now (even if it`s not what you`d like to see).

    I`d be pretty surprised if the MFs are, in-and-of themselves, causing the problem, but I`d probably CD-test them to be sure.

    I can`t quite decide whether "light, hologram-like marring" is more likely to come from the wash, or from drying still-dirty panels...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill1975
    ...VW paint may be hard to correct but it seems easy to scratch!
    Heh heh, hey..I LOVED seeing you post that! You`re absolutely correct and realizing that is a big step forward whether you realized it or not

    Sorta-random ideas for a fix follow:

    -Ensure the paint is clean before you do any further correction (clay/etc., really decontaminate them since residual dirt might be the problem)
    -Find some products that *YOU* consider user-friendly (welcome to the "no M205 for me, thanks" club )
    -Don`t work the abrasive products dry, wipe off while still a little wet even if it means Big Hassle/Lots of Time
    -Clean, or better yet replace, your pads, and MFs, *very* frequently; don`t let soiled stuff touch the paint
    -Keep using the spray that strips the panel clean and shows what`s really there
    -When you do get it corrected, use some LSP that *really* sheds dirt readily
    -Consider a more potent shampoo mix and/or a better shampoo (IME, good shampoos don`t strip good LSPs)
    -Give (even *more*) thought to the wash process..how to move dirt across paint without letting it cause scratches (yeah, it`s tricky!)
    -Maybe consider using an unusual "movement pattern" when washing, so that if that does cause marring it`ll be something obviously new/different from the issue you`re looking at now- "I moved the mitt *that* way the last time and that`s how the new marring looks!"
    -Try suffering through a few "blotting technique" drying sessions, so there`s little/no "wiping" of the presumably clean paint, or at least move the Drying Towel(s) in a different direction/motion compared to the wash

  14. #44

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    Re: Still getting holograms despite careful washing. Frustrated

    EDIT: Disregard the question about generation. I see now it`s a `13 which is a MK6 just like mine.

    Like the others have offered, if I was closer, I`d love to help out...one GTI owner to another. Just curious, what generation are we talking about? Mine is a MK6. From what I understand, the paint was pretty consistent across most of the generations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill1975 View Post
    What really frustrates me is the reemergence of holograms, albeit light ones after careful washing and polishing. As I said before, the only thing I can think of is that the car is sufficiently dirty that they are happening regardless of how carefully I wash and dry. VW paint may be hard to correct but it seems easy to scratch!
    Oh...so very true. I accidentally put some very small scratches in my hood using my fingernail to assist removal of a tiny, dried bird dropping particle on my roof. Don`t get me started on the results of using a Nanoskin clay sponge and how hard THAT was to fix.

    Quote Originally Posted by SWETM View Post

    I still recommend to go with Sonax Cutmax. And for be safe go with Sonax Perfect Finish since it is great on soft finicky paints. Then tune it in with the orange pad or the more coarse cutting pad.
    With the rock hard paint, what do you think of Sonax Cut and Finish for this type of job? Might be a little less aggressive and save him from having to do a second polishing step with Perfect Finish or EX 04-06.
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  15. #45

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    Re: Still getting holograms despite careful washing. Frustrated

    Quote Originally Posted by Desertnate View Post
    I accidentally put some very small scratches in my hood using my fingernail to assist removal of a tiny, dried bird dropping particle on my roof. Don`t get me started on the results of using a Nanoskin clay sponge and how hard THAT was to fix...
    I tell people to consider their paint to be as sensitive as the surface of their eyeball, with the big diff being that (conventional) paint won`t heal if you scratch it.

    I once marred an Audi by using a *very* soft piece of cotton to "protect" the (hard) paint when closing the trunklid Thought I`d be OK since the paint and the cloth were both clean, but no...
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